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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Question: Is raiding really that bad?

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125 posts found
  tollbooth

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/11
Posts: 302

7/07/12 9:14:15 PM#21

Raiding in Rift was the single worst experience of my entire mmo carrer.  If that's what it was like in WoW I'm glad I never played that game either.  If they're were going to add raids in any form that resembles that craptastic content then I won't be doing it.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2505

7/07/12 9:16:15 PM#22
Originally posted by tollbooth

Raiding in Rift was the single worst experience of my entire mmo carrer.  If that's what it was like in WoW I'm glad I never played that game either.  If they're were going to add raids in any form that resembles that craptastic content then I won't be doing it.

Actually Rift was much better for the Raids than WoW. WoW had the worst of the worst to me.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

7/07/12 9:19:31 PM#23

I rather enjoy raiding, it makes your guild come together and fu** shit up. Honestly i don't want a new raid every week or so, a simple raid every month or two would be just fine. IMO though, it won't happen because anet can fund so many content, i don't think their budget is high enough to add a raid content its just too much, don't forget this game is free to play :p

Basically i think this is more of a finanical issue, and you couldn't blame them. Otherwise i wouldve loved to raid and such.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17077

7/07/12 9:21:11 PM#24

I'd rather grind mobs than raid.

Raiding brings out some of the worst people. Very rude. If it's not with trusted guild members then I personally would pass on raiding.

  Kreedz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/11
Posts: 445

7/07/12 9:24:09 PM#25

GW2 Already has Raiding... It's called W-v-W.

 

And here's the kicker, the content wont become outdated because the players ARE the content, and with most PvP games the Meta will constantly change.

"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

  atziluth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 1221

Killer 73.33%
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Socializer 40.00%
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7/07/12 9:29:45 PM#26

Lots of PC responses.

 

Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better. 

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  Honner

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 506

7/07/12 9:29:52 PM#27
Originally posted by Sovrath

I'd rather grind mobs than raid.

Raiding brings out some of the worst people. Very rude. If it's not with trusted guild members then I personally would pass on raiding.

1+

Raiding pugs is literally a pain...

  Khrymson

Guide

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 3124

7/07/12 9:36:08 PM#28

Like many others said, there is essentially raiding through and through the whole of the adventure, its just not locked to end game instances with specific loot pools required to progress.  Check out this lvl 10 DE, there must be 40-50+ people present and near the end quite a few of them fall.  Pretty dern impressive for such a low lvl event, and there are DEs like this everywhere.

 

I was never much on raiding, but when its open world like this where anyone can participate and it scales in difficulty as more people arrive or leave, I'm going to enjoy it very much!

 

 

I'm very glad that ANet have done away with the gear-grind-end-game-raiding...

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2036

7/07/12 9:57:14 PM#29
Originally posted by atziluth

Lots of PC responses.

 

Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better. 

I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of raiding over the years, but I can absolutely point out the many cons to hardcore raid models, which include but are not limited to: 

  • Angst that builds up over loot competition
  • Inevitable exclusion of some guild players who wish to raid
  • The time consumption of the demanding schedule necessary for competitive success
  • The fact that once at raiding level, all other PvE content becomes virtually obsolete, which severely limits the game's content
That said, in GW2, loot competition would never be an issue as everyone involved will be adequately rewarded just as in the dungeons.  Nor would the rest of the game ever become obsolete due to the scaling backwards in lower level zones/dungeons/raids.  
 
Imagine if, in WoW for example, all content was still fair game and frequently played, from Vanilla straight through the current expansion; if dungeons like UBRS, LBRS, Strat, Scholo and Dire Maul were still being run by all new players, and all veteran players were still joining them because it would be more than just a roflstomp zergfest trip down memory lane--it would still be challenging content that still offered relevant rewards.  Imagine if the same were true for all the vanilla, BC and WotlK and early Cata raids.  How massive the game would be!  The amount of relevant content would exceed anything any MMO has ever put out.  
 
While this is unmistakeably NOT the case for current WoW (or really any other MMO I can think of), this is the potential future GW2 has.
 
And this post has successfully diverged offtopic to the game's potential longevity...     
  jdlamson75

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/27/08
Posts: 895

There's some lovely filth down here.

7/07/12 10:08:54 PM#30
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by atziluth

Lots of PC responses.

 


 
And this post has successfully diverged offtopic to the game's potential longevity...     

Good post nonetheless. 

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

7/07/12 10:11:23 PM#31

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

  • Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
  • Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
  • Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
  • Loot drama
  • Player drama
  • Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
  • Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
  • Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
 
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
 
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
 
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1906

7/07/12 10:16:28 PM#32

Exploration mode dungeons are your raids.  They will also offer the best gear and most casuals can't or wont want to do them either.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

7/07/12 10:19:27 PM#33
Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

  • Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
  • Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
  • Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
  • Loot drama
  • Player drama
  • Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
  • Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
  • Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
 
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
 
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
 

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

 

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  DJJazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/11
Posts: 2074

7/07/12 10:21:24 PM#34

Raiding is fine. But it doesn't have to be in every game.

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

7/07/12 10:32:09 PM#35
Originally posted by Drakxii
Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

  • Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
  • Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
  • Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
  • Loot drama
  • Player drama
  • Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
  • Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
  • Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
 
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
 
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
 

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

 

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

No flames. But I will give an honest rebuttal.

 

Rather than use my examples, allow me to point out the specific parts of raiding that bother me.

 

  • Current design is horribly simple. There's not a single raid in any MMO currently out there I've played that is challenging in regards to mechanic. Numerically, yes. But that's mostly a gear check. The basic mechanics of "stay out of fire, attack from the sides/back, tank moves the bsos as needed, blah blah" are repeated ad nauseum.
  • Raid makeup is terribly inflexible. You need x healers, y dps, z tanks.  You are beholden to raid makeup, and often have to sit around for hours trying to find someone to fill a certain slot. And god forbid if your guild's MT healer is sick. 
  • 25 people spend hours on content, and 1-2 people get any measurable reward.
  • Remember trash? Remember when manging to even GET to a boss was an achievement? Recent raids tend to be a string of boss encounters with little gameplay between them.
  • "Streamlined" class mechanics put most of the burden on healers/tanks; DPS have nearly no responsibility to keep themselves alive, manage aggro, or provide CC. All they do is sidestep out of the fire and spam their little roatation.
 
If you want to say this, I'll say it for you: I'm tired of raiding. It's boring, yet somehow manages to be stressful, and there's no payoff. It's a job, not a game. If I'm not having fun, why should I do it? 
 
You give me challenging raid mechanics, where EVERYONE in the fight needs to stay on their feet and think, and everyone gets a reward commesurate with their performance, and I'll be happy to raid again.
  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

7/07/12 10:32:42 PM#36
Double post, sorry....
  stevebmbsqd

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/09
Posts: 457

"Evolution thru Revolution"

7/07/12 10:36:02 PM#37

If a raid gives the best loot and that loot is only really needed to raid harder content, then why do non-raiders care what loot drops in raids if it isn't something that they will need for the content they will experience. As long as the developers make content for everyone then why care?

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 947

7/07/12 10:36:16 PM#38
Originally posted by Drakxii
Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

  • Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
  • Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
  • Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
  • Loot drama
  • Player drama
  • Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
  • Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
  • Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
 
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
 
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
 

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

 

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7156

7/07/12 10:36:46 PM#39
Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

  • Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
  • Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
  • Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
  • Loot drama
  • Player drama
  • Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
  • Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
  • Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
 
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
 
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
 

Good guilds dont have these things I'm talking US 500 and above type guilds. Top server guilds. I know everyone can't get in a good guild for whatever reason, but I just wanted to point out that a lot of people don't have these problems with raiding.

 

edit - except for the wiping part ;)

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

7/07/12 10:41:52 PM#40
Originally posted by Baddogbill

The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on

How are you being forced?  If you don't want to raid don't raid.  Just like if you don't want to pvp you don't have to pvp, or if you don't want to craft don't craft.  

I don't see a problem with an MMO appling to different play styles, most of the old MMOs did but these new "mmos" with thier larger teams and budgets seem incapble of doing. 

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

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