Raiding in Rift was the single worst experience of my entire mmo carrer.  If that's what it was like in WoW I'm glad I never played that game either.  If they're were going to add raids in any form that resembles that craptastic content then I won't be doing it.

Originally posted by tollbooth

Raiding in Rift was the single worst experience of my entire mmo carrer.  If that's what it was like in WoW I'm glad I never played that game either.  If they're were going to add raids in any form that resembles that craptastic content then I won't be doing it.

Actually Rift was much better for the Raids than WoW. WoW had the worst of the worst to me.

I rather enjoy raiding, it makes your guild come together and fu** shit up. Honestly i don't want a new raid every week or so, a simple raid every month or two would be just fine. IMO though, it won't happen because anet can fund so many content, i don't think their budget is high enough to add a raid content its just too much, don't forget this game is free to play :p

Basically i think this is more of a finanical issue, and you couldn't blame them. Otherwise i wouldve loved to raid and such.

I'd rather grind mobs than raid.

Raiding brings out some of the worst people. Very rude. If it's not with trusted guild members then I personally would pass on raiding.

GW2 Already has Raiding... It's called W-v-W.

And here's the kicker, the content wont become outdated because the players ARE the content, and with most PvP games the Meta will constantly change.

Lots of PC responses.

Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better. 

Originally posted by Sovrath

I'd rather grind mobs than raid.

Raiding brings out some of the worst people. Very rude. If it's not with trusted guild members then I personally would pass on raiding.

1+

Raiding pugs is literally a pain...

Like many others said, there is essentially raiding through and through the whole of the adventure, its just not locked to end game instances with specific loot pools required to progress.  Check out this lvl 10 DE, there must be 40-50+ people present and near the end quite a few of them fall.  Pretty dern impressive for such a low lvl event, and there are DEs like this everywhere.

I was never much on raiding, but when its open world like this where anyone can participate and it scales in difficulty as more people arrive or leave, I'm going to enjoy it very much!

I'm very glad that ANet have done away with the gear-grind-end-game-raiding...

Originally posted by atziluth

Lots of PC responses.

 

Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better. 

I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of raiding over the years, but I can absolutely point out the many cons to hardcore raid models, which include but are not limited to: 

• Angst that builds up over loot competition
• Inevitable exclusion of some guild players who wish to raid
• The time consumption of the demanding schedule necessary for competitive success
• The fact that once at raiding level, all other PvE content becomes virtually obsolete, which severely limits the game's content

Originally posted by Homitu

Originally posted by atziluth

Lots of PC responses.

 

 

And this post has successfully diverged offtopic to the game's potential longevity...     

Good post nonetheless. 

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

• Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
• Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
• Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
• Loot drama
• Player drama
• Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
• Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
• Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.

Exploration mode dungeons are your raids.  They will also offer the best gear and most casuals can't or wont want to do them either.

Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

• Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
• Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
• Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
• Loot drama
• Player drama
• Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
• Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
• Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.

 

In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.

 

Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.

 

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

Raiding is fine. But it doesn't have to be in every game.

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

• Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
• Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
• Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
• Loot drama
• Player drama
• Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
• Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
• Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.

 

In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.

 

Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.

 

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

 

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

No flames. But I will give an honest rebuttal.

Rather than use my examples, allow me to point out the specific parts of raiding that bother me.

• Current design is horribly simple. There's not a single raid in any MMO currently out there I've played that is challenging in regards to mechanic. Numerically, yes. But that's mostly a gear check. The basic mechanics of "stay out of fire, attack from the sides/back, tank moves the bsos as needed, blah blah" are repeated ad nauseum.
• Raid makeup is terribly inflexible. You need x healers, y dps, z tanks.  You are beholden to raid makeup, and often have to sit around for hours trying to find someone to fill a certain slot. And god forbid if your guild's MT healer is sick. 
• 25 people spend hours on content, and 1-2 people get any measurable reward.
• Remember trash? Remember when manging to even GET to a boss was an achievement? Recent raids tend to be a string of boss encounters with little gameplay between them.
• "Streamlined" class mechanics put most of the burden on healers/tanks; DPS have nearly no responsibility to keep themselves alive, manage aggro, or provide CC. All they do is sidestep out of the fire and spam their little roatation.

Double post, sorry....

If a raid gives the best loot and that loot is only really needed to raid harder content, then why do non-raiders care what loot drops in raids if it isn't something that they will need for the content they will experience. As long as the developers make content for everyone then why care?

Originally posted by Drakxii

Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

• Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
• Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
• Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
• Loot drama
• Player drama
• Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
• Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
• Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.

 

In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.

 

Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.

 

So...  Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?

 

This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game.  Views like that are ruining MMOs.  

The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on

Originally posted by terrant

Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.

 

In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.

 

In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.

 

• Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
• Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
• Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
• Loot drama
• Player drama
• Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
• Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
• Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.

 

In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.

 

Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.

 

Good guilds dont have these things I'm talking US 500 and above type guilds. Top server guilds. I know everyone can't get in a good guild for whatever reason, but I just wanted to point out that a lot of people don't have these problems with raiding.

edit - except for the wiping part ;)

Originally posted by Baddogbill

The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on

How are you being forced?  If you don't want to raid don't raid.  Just like if you don't want to pvp you don't have to pvp, or if you don't want to craft don't craft.  

I don't see a problem with an MMO appling to different play styles, most of the old MMOs did but these new "mmos" with thier larger teams and budgets seem incapble of doing.