Originally posted by LadyPvP

Originally posted by atziluth

I am torn on this one. I personally feel they did waste resources implamenting the heart system, but I can understand why they did it. There is a large population of players out there that have come to expect hand holding in MMOs. If you just dump them in a huge map and tell them to go explore it can overwhelm. My guess is that ANet did not want to put them in, but did it to appease a wider segment of player base. They are afterall in this to make money. 

I think the hearts system is well done, just unnecessary for my personal playing style. If it stems some complaints from the masses I can live with it though.

I wish there was a way to turn them off on your map so you don't have to see them. It would be good for us that would rather explore and find things and those that enjoy the hand holding could use the hearts...win..win for us all.

For the most part, the hearts will not show up unless you talk to a scout (binoculars). That way they only appear when you get near to the NPC.

Originally posted by Leonona

Well...I kind of feel they did. Back at Games-com 2010 when we first heard about heart-quests they were introduced as a way to lead players around the map, to help them find the events. That all sounds fine, but my problem is that hearts are everywhere while events are not. At least that's my impression from playing the BWE's. I feel there should be alot of different events happening in an area and only a few hearts to help players who need it. In reality there are a lot of hearts in any given area and the same few repeating events. I would have liked if they had cut out many of those hearts and put those resources into making the event system much more diverse.

To me hearts feel very much like your boring standard mmo-quest, while events are fun as they evolve and players band together for a common goal. But my experience from playing the BWE maps running around looking for content, there was always plenty af hearts to keep you busy, but the events could be few and far between. And the few that did happen were usually the same repeating. You can't roam too far as you can only fight mobs 3-4 levels above you. I atleast found myself grabbing all the xp I could get so I could move on to a new area, which meant doing the hearts. So while hearts are meant to be optional they are really not in my experience, as events only give so much xp.

Arenanet have said a few times that you can play the game the way you want to. You can just do personal story, events or explore. But in reality I find you have to do it all to get the xp you need. And I don't really mind those three things, but I do mind the hearts. Especially as I don't think the event system is all it could/should have been. In many areas there are not enough events and they often feel linear and not very dynamic. Some events are great as they branch and have a real effect on the world for a time, but imo they are just very few.

We have only seen a few of the beginning maps and I hope events will dominate the maps much more later on. That hearts are only Arenanets way of easing new players into the game and there will be fewer as we progress. I mean, if we see the same heart/event ratio in Orr I will be a bit disappointed, like there is some wasted potential with the event system. But we'll see soon enough.

Originally posted by Leonona

Well...I kind of feel they did. Back at Games-com 2010 when we first heard about heart-quests they were introduced as a way to lead players around the map, to help them find the events. That all sounds fine, but my problem is that hearts are everywhere while events are not. At least that's my impression from playing the BWE's. I feel there should be alot of different events happening in an area and only a few hearts to help players who need it. In reality there are a lot of hearts in any given area and the same few repeating events. I would have liked if they had cut out many of those hearts and put those resources into making the event system much more diverse.

To me hearts feel very much like your boring standard mmo-quest, while events are fun as they evolve and players band together for a common goal. But my experience from playing the BWE maps running around looking for content, there was always plenty af hearts to keep you busy, but the events could be few and far between. And the few that did happen were usually the same repeating. You can't roam too far as you can only fight mobs 3-4 levels above you. I atleast found myself grabbing all the xp I could get so I could move on to a new area, which meant doing the hearts. So while hearts are meant to be optional they are really not in my experience, as events only give so much xp.

Arenanet have said a few times that you can play the game the way you want to. You can just do personal story, events or explore. But in reality I find you have to do it all to get the xp you need. And I don't really mind those three things, but I do mind the hearts. Especially as I don't think the event system is all it could/should have been. In many areas there are not enough events and they often feel linear and not very dynamic. Some events are great as they branch and have a real effect on the world for a time, but imo they are just very few.

We have only seen a few of the beginning maps and I hope events will dominate the maps much more later on. That hearts are only Arenanets way of easing new players into the game and there will be fewer as we progress. I mean, if we see the same heart/event ratio in Orr I will be a bit disappointed, like there is some wasted potential with the event system. But we'll see soon enough.

Have you even played past the level 20 area? Hearts are there to guide players to events and familiarize them with the areas, while providing xp. You have a problem with this? Fine, don't do them. But why should it be removed? There are many ways to level  w/o touching hearts if you choose to do so.

I see where the OP is coming from, but... Hearts are a great feature for the "non-MMO" crowd.

A few of my RL friends plan to play GW2 and hearts will be a good aid for them.

IMO Anet did the sensible thing: "Wasted" ressources on something that will open up their game to customers new to the genre.

Originally posted by Halandir

I see where the OP is coming from, but... Hearts are a great feature for the "non-MMO" crowd.

Acrtually I think it is more intended for the majority of current MMO players as they simply forgot or never learned how to find content if it is not marked/highlighted. ;)

I like the way you complete a map by finding all the waypoints, skill points, and complete hearts. I would like to see even more added to that, not taken away, so I like the hearts.

Originally posted by raven29

Have you even played past the level 20 area? Hearts are there to guide players to events and familiarize them with the areas, while providing xp. You have a problem with this? Fine, don't do them. But why should it be removed? There are many ways to level  w/o touching hearts if you choose to do so.

I have only played the two zones that accompany each of the three starter cities in the BWE's, so that's to level 25. I have not touched Gendarren Fields, but perhaps events are more predominant there? I hope so.

I don't have as much of a problem with hearts,  as I have a problem with events. It is my impression that events are not all they could have been and that perhaps Anet focused too much on hearts. A focus they could have put on events to make them better. They have limited resources after all. 

Just think when you are doine dong 1000+ some dynamic events, you'll get 500+ more in an expansion. For the short term they'll be ok but for the long term no thanks. I would have preferred more of a sanbox type feaures with better immersion and exploration.

Originally posted by Leonona

I can certainly understand that there might be many traditional mmo-players who enjoy the hearts. When I call out the hearts, it's because it was a system that was tacked unto the event-system, to compliment it, a bit later in the game development. But perhaps it has evolved into its own seperate system now of more traditional quests.

But I'm still left with the feeling that perhaps Arenanet are trying to do too many things in GW2. That in the end it will be a game of half-baked features, that are not quite what they could have been. Perhaps they should have narrowed their focus and done a few things really, really well. But I guess when you want to appeal to the masses you spread out and do it all.

This is where I have to disagree with you. Nothing from my playing time so far indicates any of the systems are 1/2 baked. The systems themselves even when new changes are brought in have been pretty polished. Also even if the number of features took away from quality (which I don't believe they have)... They certainly appear good enough to build on. As good as I think the game is right now... given the normal evolution of an MMO... It should be even better 6 months to a year down the road. 

I don't feel Anet wasted resources on heart quests because during the betas I realy enjoyed doing them as they gave a sense of progression in the game other than leveling.

Originally posted by atziluth

This is where I have to disagree with you. Nothing from my playing time so far indicates any of the systems are 1/2 baked. The systems themselves even when new changes are brought in have been pretty polished. Also even if the number of features took away from quality (which I don't believe they have)... They certainly appear good enough to build on. As good as I think the game is right now... given the normal evolution of an MMO... It should be even better 6 months to a year down the road. 

I feel the event system is half baked. It's not all it could have been imo. There are too many events that just reset every few minutes on a timer(something they are adjusting I know), too many linear event and too few events that have a meaningfull persistant effect on the world. And at least in BWE2 as they cut away many of the timed events, just too few events in many areas.

I kinda do wish hearts weren't there. Nevertheless, the way ANet added them doens't particulalry worry me, though. I only wish they didn't count for map completion...

Originally posted by Leonona

I feel the event system is half baked. It's not all it could have been imo. There are too many events that just reset every few minutes on a timer(something they are adjusting I know), too many linear event and too few events that have a meaningfull persistant effect on the world. And at least in BWE2 as they cut away many of the timed events, just too few events in many areas.

I don't know what to tell you there. I had a completely different experience with the actual DE system (which should not be confused with the hearts events). Wandering around I jumped in on a number of DEs which is the beauty of the system. You can miss multiple stages and still be a part of it... You can go through an entire area and not see all the DEs which makes replaying in those areas interesting. 

I ran through Norn, Charr, and Human zones up to 20 - 25 on three chars between the two BWE. Each character had new experiences in zones I overlapped and only a few of the true DEs did I repeat. Maybe that is the bad side to this system... It is quite possible for a player to miss a large chunk of content by either bad luck or not recognizing when they stumbled onto a DE event.  

Originally posted by atziluth

I am torn on this one. I personally feel they did waste resources implamenting the heart system, but I can understand why they did it. There is a large population of players out there that have come to expect hand holding in MMOs. If you just dump them in a huge map and tell them to go explore it can overwhelm. My guess is that ANet did not want to put them in, but did it to appease a wider segment of player base. They are afterall in this to make money. 

I think the hearts system is well done, just unnecessary for my personal playing style. If it stems some complaints from the masses I can live with it though.

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

I didn't notice it mentioned but hearts are a major source of gear also. I got all my level 20ish greens doing hearts on my eng. Thye have a place in the game and I can't imagine how boring this game would be without them.

Originally posted by atziluth

I don't know what to tell you there. I had a completely different experience with the actual DE system (which should not be confused with the hearts events). Wandering around I jumped in on a number of DEs which is the beauty of the system. You can miss multiple stages and still be a part of it... You can go through an entire area and not see all the DEs which makes replaying in those areas interesting. 

I ran through Norn, Charr, and Human zones up to 20 - 25 on three chars between the two BWE. Each character had new experiences in zones I overlapped and only a few of the true DEs did I repeat. Maybe that is the bad side to this system... It is quite possible for a player to miss a large chunk of content by either bad luck or not recognizing when they stumbled onto a DE event.  

During BWE2 I was running around for a long time looking for events without much turning up, so perhaps I just missed them. I know on the official beta-forum, there were a number of threads complaining about the lack of events in BWE2, so I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

Originally posted by Anthur

Originally posted by Halandir

I see where the OP is coming from, but... Hearts are a great feature for the "non-MMO" crowd.

Acrtually I think it is more intended for the majority of current MMO players as they simply forgot or never learned how to find content if it is not marked/highlighted. ;)

I can only respect a guy who sees straight through all the mud... In retrospect: You are right! (Simple as that).

I like the heart quests. Many of those are actually fun and lead the way to events, or just lets you pass the time inbetween events. Also always curious to see what the heart npc is going to sell me :)

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod).  Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.

Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession.  Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.

Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature.  Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language.  Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.

If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork ;)