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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Is it me or GW2 PAY 2 WIN game?

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481 posts found
  User Deleted
7/06/12 4:35:58 PM#341

Currently what is known in the gemstore......no stat boosts....

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

  malilima

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/11
Posts: 6

7/06/12 4:36:17 PM#342
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima

I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

  FelixMajor

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 543

7/06/12 4:36:39 PM#343

People who think this game has a p2w shop are seriously, dangerously ignorant.

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2590

7/06/12 4:38:03 PM#344
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Sebber

 

 Look, it's pretty simple.

1.  People will put many, many things including powerful crafted gear and crafting materials on the auction house and sell them for gold.

2.  Several of these things will give an advantage to the player who buys them by making them more powerful.

3.  You can buy gold with gems, and therefore you can buy anything ont he AH with real money.

4.  Since there will be things on the AH that give you an advantage, you can buy an advantage with real money.

That simple.

And yes, I know that there are safeguards in the game like sPvP and supply in WvW.  I know these will stop P2W stuff from becoming a huge problem. 

But the fact remains that you where an advantage can be bought with gold (PvE, WvW to a lesser extent), it can be bought with real money.

Look, it's even simplier.

You can't get the best cosmetic gear with gold, you get those with either dungeons tokens, skill points( yes the point you use to get utilty skills, dont ask me why this is the case), karma and WvW tokens.

 Even if all this is true...it still doesn't matter.

If people never wanted to buy crafted stuff, then crafting would be 100% pointless.  People are going to want to buy crafted stuff.  And why?  Because it gives them some kind of advantage.

I mean, the only scenarios you have are that crafting is 100% pointless and you can never buy an advantage with real money.  Or crafting is actually worthwhile and you can buy an advantage with real money.

That's it.  There's no other way it can possibly be.

Oh, and I never argued that you could get the most powerful items with real money.  I just said that you could buy an "advantage."  I've been pretty fair with this whole thing.  I completely acknowledge that GW2's safeguards will stop RMT from becoming a real problem.

But to deny that RMT can give you any advantage whatsoever is just blind.


The advantage they get though is skipping the time involved getting those things.

And that is only an advantage if the time spent doing those things isn't fun.

The other thing one needs to understand is that crafting, doing dungeons, wvwvw, DE, merchants, all will give the same stats - the difference is the skins.

People generally pay more to get stuff "NOW!" instead of waiting.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Sebber

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 230

7/06/12 4:39:18 PM#345
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima

I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

And you can get mystic keys buy either playing the game or trading gold for gems.

  iniquix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 3

7/06/12 4:40:45 PM#346

I've been watching this thread for awhile now. While I do understand this "P2W" ideology I do have to state afew things:

 

First off this game doesn't have much that will let you win against a group of players in WvWvW - you will die just like anybody else. 

Secondly - The fact you can go into PVP at level 2 and still be competent and do well pretty much put's the pay to get quicker XP thing at bay.

Thirdly - Your items that you buy from the AH (with Gems) once again don't compensate for the inability to make no difference. If people want to spend money then that's there choice why let it effect your fun and your enjoyment of a game?

  malilima

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/11
Posts: 6

7/06/12 4:42:11 PM#347
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima

I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

And you can get mystic keys buy either playing the game or trading gold for gems.

As I said drop rate of mystic keys seems to be 1 key on 10 chests. so, you either:

1. Grind for keys (random drop)

2. Grind to gain gold to buy gems and then buy them from cash shop

3. Buy them with money

  Sebber

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 230

7/06/12 4:45:05 PM#348
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima

I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

And you can get mystic keys buy either playing the game or trading gold for gems.

As I said drop rate of mystic keys seems to be 1 key on 10 chests. so, you either:

1. Grind for keys (random drop)

2. Grind to gain gold to buy gems and then buy them from cash shop

3. Buy them with money

4. Get them in your personal story when you are done some of the quests.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

7/06/12 4:45:08 PM#349
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 See this post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

 Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2590

7/06/12 4:45:52 PM#350
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima

I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

And you can get mystic keys buy either playing the game or trading gold for gems.

As I said drop rate of mystic keys seems to be 1 key on 10 chests. so, you either:

1. Grind for keys (random drop)

2. Grind to gain gold to buy gems and then buy them from cash shop

3. Buy them with money

4. Sell the chests, buy gems with gold, buy keys, get more chests,

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2590

7/06/12 4:47:06 PM#351
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 See this post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

 Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

What advantage in PvE?

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Morv

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 334

7/06/12 4:47:31 PM#352
Originally posted by negativf4kk

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Talk:Gem#Real_life_money_--.3E_in_game_money

Looks like P2W?

er, I have not seen anything that supports what you're saying, the link does not either.... Do you have other sources or other information that would suggest Guild Wars 2 is what you suggest?

  Morv

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/03
Posts: 334

7/06/12 4:48:16 PM#353
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 See this post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

 Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

What advantage in PvE?

 


I am curious too, what advantage?

  malilima

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/11
Posts: 6

7/06/12 4:48:32 PM#354
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by malilima

I think you will always have the option to grind for anything that could be bought for money->gems->gold.
The question is how much grind is needed to keep up with those who sell gems for gold and then buy e.g. stat boosters from AH.

If there is too much grind it could become p2w, or pay to be boosted all the time (like 10% more stat).

As for stuff in cash shop, mystic chests also provide stat boosters and some other things. Drop rate of mytic keys seems to be 1/10.
So, it is another way to buy boosters for money or grind them.

There could be other ways to gain advantage with money, so the best advice is: wait and see.

You can't buy mystic chest in the cash shop...ZzZ....

You can buy mytic keys, though. I never said you could buy mystic chests...

And you can get mystic keys buy either playing the game or trading gold for gems.

As I said drop rate of mystic keys seems to be 1 key on 10 chests. so, you either:

1. Grind for keys (random drop)

2. Grind to gain gold to buy gems and then buy them from cash shop

3. Buy them with money

4. Get them in your personal story when you are done some of the quests.

Oh, you got me. You can get couple through personal story, true.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

7/06/12 4:50:22 PM#355
Originally posted by Morv
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 See this post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

 Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

What advantage in PvE?

 


I am curious too, what advantage?

 Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4749

7/06/12 4:53:59 PM#356
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by thedarkess

Yes, you can buy anything in cash shop with gold, but there's nothing that will give you advantage and win.

 Define advantage as anything that makes your character more powerful in ANY aspect of the game.

With this definition, do you honestly believe that nothing in the auction house could ever give your character an advantage?

Except, advantage /= power. Hell, almost none of the advantages in the cashshop even last that long. The ones that do are things like extra storage, which are advantages but not power. Paying to lvl faster than the guy next to you is an advantage, but it doesn't make you more powerful than they are. Buying a portable bank golem is an advantage, but doesn't make you more powerful. This was all explained very plainly on page 1:

Originally posted by Master10K

I can link to.

This really comes down to how far people are trying to stretch the definition of 'pay 2 win' to encompass pretty much anything that can conceivably be called an advantage. That is NOT what it means. There's a huge difference from buying the best gear in the game via the cash shop and 'winning', and buying an extra character slot and calling that 'buying power'.

Hell, even if you try and make the argument that the action of trading gems -> gold is 'pay to win', that falls flat on a number of points that have been beaten to death already.

1) The gems -> gold exchange rate is dictated by the players, so trying to flood the market w/ selling gems will drive the price way, way down.

2) Gold cannot buy you any of the best gear in the game. Period. In order to get any of that stuff, gold is of zero use aside from travel / repair costs, of which no one has trouble with anyway.

3) Even if you use that to bankroll blueprints in WvW, they are still dictated by a secondary cost, supply, and you cannot buy supply with gems or gold. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that blue prints just don't cost that much compared to the amount of gold you make just by playing the game at later lvls. Which leads me to..

4) Gold is insanely easy to get in this game. Arguably more so than any other MMO. It's not only easier to get, but it's less important.

Probably the most extreme case of using gems to buy a significant advantage, would be to sell gems for gold, use that gold to bankroll a new character, and have them grinding all crafting professions. However, this is STILL dictated by the players, and unless you know exact where to get which items, you are at the mercy of the other players to find the items you need for higher lvl recipies. This means that you will have to wait a bit before this is even possible, and you will have to know enough about the game as to how to take advantage of such a shortcut. Again, doesn't buy power, but it does cheapen the experience for that one character.

Reposted. Again, you can buy an 'advantage' sure, but not power. Can you buy slightly better equipment earlier in the game than grey trash weapons? Definitely. Are these weapons going to be better than the epics that people earn through karma, quest rewards? Nope.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2590

7/06/12 4:54:14 PM#357
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Morv
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 See this post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

 Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

What advantage in PvE?

 


I am curious too, what advantage?

 Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

Max level equipment is max level equipment - everyone can craft or buy from vendors with either karma or gold max  equipment.

There is no better equipment and it is trivial to get.

What people will go after is rare skins they find good looking.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  seridan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/12
Posts: 1212

7/06/12 4:56:13 PM#358
Originally posted by Creslin321

 Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

No it's not an advantage over anyone. You can get a boost for yourself and that's it. It won't affect anyone no matter what you say. It's like "buying" a dlc for a single  player game, is that an advantage to you? Seriously

Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  User Deleted
7/06/12 4:56:30 PM#359
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Morv
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 See this post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5111649

In other words you agree that there is no advantage OVER others. Just a personal "bonus" for the one who uses the CS, that's not Pay 2 Win because you are not winning anything. Unless you consider winning getting to 80 first, or getting the best crafted gear first. Well I don't, I consider P2W an unfair advantage someone might get OVER ME by using a CS. If his usage of the CS affects himself only (as it is in GW2) there is no "winning" here

 Definitely no advantage in sPvP.

WvW...possible, not sure.  It all depends on how much of a difference purchased things can make, and how much blueprints wind up costing.

PvE...you can definitely get an advantage.

I dunno, in the end, I see buying gold for real money as a form of legitimized cheating, and I think having to pay money for what is tradtionally accomplished with a cheat code is beyond stupid.

What advantage in PvE?

 


I am curious too, what advantage?

 Uhhh???  You can buy better equipment?  Isn't this an advantage?

I mean...if you don't consider anything on the AH to confer an advantage, then I just don't know what to say.

But since gear/weapons are level rated you would only have an advantage if you reached that level ahead of someone else.........a very trivial advantage at best.

  grimmliberty

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/11
Posts: 35

7/06/12 5:22:23 PM#360
Originally posted by Sebber
Originally posted by Master10K

I can link to.

This is golden.

Yes, yes it is! LOL

 

Sincerely,
Grimm Liberty

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