Between the shills and goonswarm, its hard to tell who is who these days.

Its best to get your game info from the devs websites, youtube videos and beta invites.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by lifeordinary

why only single out those who say positive stuff about MMO? what about those who say nothing but negative things? shills can also be paid by rival companies to spread negativity you know? every coin has two sides.

 

Absolutely.

Hype, dehype.. it's all part of the same excercise in 'creative marketing'. Gush about your game, create concern and negative feeling about your rival.

You can 'opinion form' on the internet very easily by using sites like this.

I am suprised that more people are not aware of the extent of the practise, or not able to spot it easier.

 How do you know more people aren't aware of it?

I catch what looks like it's probably a shill from time to time as well (low post-count, posts read more like an ad chock full of catch-phrases than a fan post, etc. etc). I simply don't feel the need to point it out every time I see it.

Further, I can't prove they're a shill, however strong my hunch is that they are. So, I simply take it as someone voicing their opinion, and then regard it the same as I do everyone else's. They have their point-of-view. I have mine. If something they say compels me to respond, then I do. Otherwise, I just move on and read the next post.

Are we all to take on the cynical view that every time we come to a site like this, there are shills trying to influence our opinions? Are people really so weak-minded and easily swayed that the overzealous hype or anti-hype of a handful of posters is going to totally change their perspectve on something?

See, I think at the end of the day, people know what they like and they know what they don't like. If someone is playing a game and find it to be terrible, someone telling them "But it's the best game ever! It has the best graphics! Smooth frame-rates!... etc." isn't going to suddenly make them go "Oh! This game is awesome!". If it is, then that person has a bigger problem than shills on a message forum.

Randomly checking people's prior posts shows that there may be some conspiracy going on. I believe one person kept posting deals on where he bought a certain game, about a dozen times. Mind you, he wasn't saying..here's a deal, thought you should know..he was all like...I was on the fence, but look a deal! Like a dozen times.

I've noticed a few others like that, but not as ...obvious.

The term is known here in the UK.

To sum it up a shill is somebody who publicly helps a party without disclosing the fact that s/he has a close relationship with them. It is the job of the shill to give onlookers the impression that s/he is enthusiastic about whatever the party is selling and act as an independent customer in order to raise sales and increase custom. 

Shills can also be used in scams and are frequently used on a show called 'the real hustle' where a group of scam artists go around Britain scamming people and stealing their money. 

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by strumpf
It's easier to believe that people have an ulterior motive than that they disagree with/like other things than you, is that what's going on here? Yeah we know, plenty of wars fought over it.

 Exactly. Most times, when someone cries "Shill!", or "Fanboy!" or "Troll!" or "Hater!" or any other such term, it's essentially them demonstrating "You have an opinion different than mine, and I can't tolerate that! so I will attack you personally to invalidate your opinion!"

This image sums it up quite humorously...

Also in reverse.  Stop disliking what I like.  Regardless of direction, spew is still spew.

I don't mind that the fans and haters clash.  It's just that at peak periods, it makes in nigh on impossible to find any other discussions on the forum.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by lifeordinary

why only single out those who say positive stuff about MMO? what about those who say nothing but negative things? shills can also be paid by rival companies to spread negativity you know? every coin has two sides.

 

Absolutely.

Hype, dehype.. it's all part of the same excercise in 'creative marketing'. Gush about your game, create concern and negative feeling about your rival.

You can 'opinion form' on the internet very easily by using sites like this.

I am suprised that more people are not aware of the extent of the practise, or not able to spot it easier.

 

Are we all to take on the cynical view that every time we come to a site like this, there are shills trying to influence our opinions?

What you call 'cynical' I call simply being aware. Looking at what's being said, who is saying it, and ask why maybe it is being said at all.

But yes, the use of any public forum that deals with multi-million dollar product should always be looked at with a questioning eye.

Are people really so weak-minded and easily swayed that the overzealous hype or anti-hype of a handful of posters is going to totally change their perspectve on something?

Yes, that's why sites like this are labelled 'opinion forming' sites.

'People' are, in general, extremely easy to sway.

See, I think at the end of the day, people know what they like and they know what they don't like.

Marketing is directly concerned with telling you what you like and don't like, usually making you feel like you got there on your own. 

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by lifeordinary

why only single out those who say positive stuff about MMO? what about those who say nothing but negative things? shills can also be paid by rival companies to spread negativity you know? every coin has two sides.

 

Absolutely.

Hype, dehype.. it's all part of the same excercise in 'creative marketing'. Gush about your game, create concern and negative feeling about your rival.

You can 'opinion form' on the internet very easily by using sites like this.

I am suprised that more people are not aware of the extent of the practise, or not able to spot it easier.

 

Are we all to take on the cynical view that every time we come to a site like this, there are shills trying to influence our opinions?

What you call 'cynical' I call simply being aware. Looking at what's being said, who is saying it, and ask why maybe it is being said at all.

But yes, the use of any public forum that deals with multi-million dollar product should always be looked at with a questioning eye.

Are people really so weak-minded and easily swayed that the overzealous hype or anti-hype of a handful of posters is going to totally change their perspectve on something?

Yes, that's why sites like this are labelled 'opinion forming' sites.

'People' are, in general, extremely easy to sway.

See, I think at the end of the day, people know what they like and they know what they don't like.

Marketing is directly concerned with telling you what you like and don't like, usually making you feel like you got there on your own. 

 

Your avatar should be wearing a tin foil hat.

No doubt there's some shilling going on, and the really obvious ones get taken down with regularity.

Otherwise, you can't go around accusing people of shilling just because they promote (or slam a game)

One person said an obvious sign of shilling is when someone denies a games bad points.  People point out EVE's 'flaws' all the time, and I refute almost all of them because I don't see the situation the same as they do.  Does that make me a shill? Maybe so.

But for the record, I've never been asked to shill of any game (and have someone pay me for it) and I wanna know why!!!!

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by lifeordinary

why only single out those who say positive stuff about MMO? what about those who say nothing but negative things? shills can also be paid by rival companies to spread negativity you know? every coin has two sides.

 

Absolutely.

Hype, dehype.. it's all part of the same excercise in 'creative marketing'. Gush about your game, create concern and negative feeling about your rival.

You can 'opinion form' on the internet very easily by using sites like this.

I am suprised that more people are not aware of the extent of the practise, or not able to spot it easier.

 

Are we all to take on the cynical view that every time we come to a site like this, there are shills trying to influence our opinions?

What you call 'cynical' I call simply being aware. Looking at what's being said, who is saying it, and ask why maybe it is being said at all.

But yes, the use of any public forum that deals with multi-million dollar product should always be looked at with a questioning eye.

Are people really so weak-minded and easily swayed that the overzealous hype or anti-hype of a handful of posters is going to totally change their perspectve on something?

Yes, that's why sites like this are labelled 'opinion forming' sites.

'People' are, in general, extremely easy to sway.

See, I think at the end of the day, people know what they like and they know what they don't like.

Marketing is directly concerned with telling you what you like and don't like, usually making you feel like you got there on your own. 

 

Your avatar should be wearing a tin foil hat.

No doubt there's some shilling going on, and the really obvious ones get taken down with regularity.

Otherwise, you can't go around accusing people of shilling just because they promote (or slam a game)

I do not go around blanket accusing every positive or negative post on any game of being a shill. I didn't say that's what anyone should do. I merely said I question them all with that possibility in mind.

The fact that you agree that shilling is happening would mean, I would have thought, that you would do the same.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

 Exactly. Most times, when someone cries "Shill!", or "Fanboy!" or "Troll!" or "Hater!" or any other such term, it's essentially them demonstrating "You have an opinion different than mine, and I can't tolerate that! so I will attack you personally to invalidate your opinion!"

This image sums it up quite humorously...

Are there shills out there? Absolutely. I don't doubt that for a second. Is everyone with an opinion someone else doesn't agree with a "shill"? Absolutely not. Some people really are just that enthusiastic about something they're playing.

I'd also like to echo what was said in another post about how people assume that because someone says an issue isn't an issue for them, that they're denying that it exists. In many cases, all they're basically saying is "it isn't a big enough problem to ruin the experience for me". I extolled Final Fantasy XI for years as being the best MMO I'd ever played. And it was, to this day (until Abyssea happened). I was accused of "ignoring all the game's issues". Except I wasn't ignoring anything. I was fully aware of all the game's issues. And yes they were annoying. They simply weren't enough to significantly affect my overall opinion of the game itself.

I think even moreso than the "shill problem", people should really deal with their "intolerance" problems first.

You're my new favorite person.

Originally posted by TangentPoint

Originally posted by strumpf
It's easier to believe that people have an ulterior motive than that they disagree with/like other things than you, is that what's going on here? Yeah we know, plenty of wars fought over it.

 Exactly. Most times, when someone cries "Shill!", or "Fanboy!" or "Troll!" or "Hater!" or any other such term, it's essentially them demonstrating "You have an opinion different than mine, and I can't tolerate that! so I will attack you personally to invalidate your opinion!"

This image sums it up quite humorously...

Are there shills out there? Absolutely. I don't doubt that for a second. Is everyone with an opinion someone else doesn't agree with a "shill"? Absolutely not. Some people really are just that enthusiastic about something they're playing.

I'd also like to echo what was said in another post about how people assume that because someone says an issue isn't an issue for them, that they're denying that it exists. In many cases, all they're basically saying is "it isn't a big enough problem to ruin the experience for me". I extolled Final Fantasy XI for years as being the best MMO I'd ever played. And it was, to this day (until Abyssea happened). I was accused of "ignoring all the game's issues". Except I wasn't ignoring anything. I was fully aware of all the game's issues. And yes they were annoying. They simply weren't enough to significantly affect my overall opinion of the game itself.

I think even moreso than the "shill problem", people should really deal with their "intolerance" problems first.

tldr; "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence"     =)

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by lifeordinary

why only single out those who say positive stuff about MMO? what about those who say nothing but negative things? shills can also be paid by rival companies to spread negativity you know? every coin has two sides.

 

Absolutely.

Hype, dehype.. it's all part of the same excercise in 'creative marketing'. Gush about your game, create concern and negative feeling about your rival.

You can 'opinion form' on the internet very easily by using sites like this.

I am suprised that more people are not aware of the extent of the practise, or not able to spot it easier.

Yeah, both the GW2 and TSW forums have a ton of this going on.  It almost doesn't matter if the games are good or not, it is this level of creative marketing that is turning me off.

Originally posted by GTwander

They are validating the day-1 shills because it benefits them.

Plus, I don't think you have to be a new account to shill a game - you just have to be a completely biased poster that dances around (or completely denies) the negative points brought up. Which I see plenty of, in both GW2 *and* TSW land.

Plenty of posters are actively trying to SELL this game to the unconvinced. That is the pure definition of the word.

Not really, that would be a fanboy. For it to be considered shilling the person has to be on the payroll of the company making the game directly or indirectly, as in, being actually paid to pose as a fanboy/costumer with no ties to the company.

BTW... if talking good about a game is shilling, I'll BRB, I have to contact a few MMO companies, they owe me some money.. :)

Originally posted by XAPGames

These aren't marketers pretending to be fans.  These are fans pretending to be marketers. :-)

Originally posted by Byrhofen

 On this site, if you post to say you like a game that someone else does not like, you are obviously a shill.

On this site, if you post to say you do not like a game that someone else likes, you are obviously a troll. 

If you talk about a game that polarizes, has both people that love it and people that hate it, does that make you a shitroll?

Originally posted by Vesavius

The worst part about it is that you are not allowed to name them directly because of forum rules.

That's correct, but so is 'advertising' under the ROC.  If you feel someone is shilling for a company, then report them.  We'll investigate to the best of our ability and take any necessary action.

Also, remember that this isn't the place to air out your complaints and suspicions about why you may or may not have had your posts moderated or issued infractions. There's no grand conspiracy here, guys.  Nobody has been issued a ban for being some kind of crusader. 

Once again, we have and do actively look out for shills here, but we're human. If you see something you suspect, then report it. We look at every single report.

Closing thread.

Or get in touch with me directly with any evidence you have to back up your claims at MIKEB at MMORPG dot COM.