Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Ezhae

The layout is MOBA inspired. It's form lwoest CD to highest. Always. With every weapon. Personally I don't have any issue with it. 5 skills don't really make it hard to manage since all 5 keybinds are easily reachable anyway. Rest is just muscle memory. 

I dont care the order of the cool down. I care the order of what the skill does.

I agree completely with what Ezhea said.  UI customizability isn't really the point here.  Iit isn't really important, and it probably makes it easier for people watching PvP from the sidelines that each weapon's skills are always in the same order.

Remember, this game has aspirations of becoming an eSport, and I hope it succeeds in that respect.

Besides, after a little bit of playing without whining about these things, you shouldn't have problems with which skill is where on your skill bar (and if you do, you can always rebind your keys).

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Ezhae

The layout is MOBA inspired. It's form lwoest CD to highest. Always. With every weapon. Personally I don't have any issue with it. 5 skills don't really make it hard to manage since all 5 keybinds are easily reachable anyway. Rest is just muscle memory. 

I dont care the order of the cool down. I care the order of what the skill does.

I agree completely with what Ezhea said.  UI customizability isn't really the point here.  Iit isn't really important, and it probably makes it easier for people watching PvP from the sidelines that each weapon's skills are always in the same order.

Remember, this game has aspirations of becoming an eSport, and I hope it succeeds in that respect.

 

Besides, after a little bit of playing without whining about these things, you shouldn't have problems with which skill is where on your skill bar (and if you do, you can always rebind your keys).

When gamers ask for something its not whining because you dont agree. I feel sorry for your close minded and small view of things. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Ezhae

The layout is MOBA inspired. It's form lwoest CD to highest. Always. With every weapon. Personally I don't have any issue with it. 5 skills don't really make it hard to manage since all 5 keybinds are easily reachable anyway. Rest is just muscle memory. 

I dont care the order of the cool down. I care the order of what the skill does.

I agree completely with what Ezhea said.  UI customizability isn't really the point here.  Iit isn't really important, and it probably makes it easier for people watching PvP from the sidelines that each weapon's skills are always in the same order.

Remember, this game has aspirations of becoming an eSport, and I hope it succeeds in that respect.

 

Besides, after a little bit of playing without whining about these things, you shouldn't have problems with which skill is where on your skill bar (and if you do, you can always rebind your keys).

When gamers ask for something its not whining because you dont agree. I feel sorry for your close minded and small view of things. 

It can be. Example - a thread on this forum about why not open world PvP in GW2. The developers said the game was not designed for it and people are still, I have no other word for it, whining.

Just because players ask for something does not mean the company has to do it. people still talking about is whining.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Ezhae

The layout is MOBA inspired. It's form lwoest CD to highest. Always. With every weapon. Personally I don't have any issue with it. 5 skills don't really make it hard to manage since all 5 keybinds are easily reachable anyway. Rest is just muscle memory. 

I dont care the order of the cool down. I care the order of what the skill does.

I agree completely with what Ezhea said.  UI customizability isn't really the point here.  Iit isn't really important, and it probably makes it easier for people watching PvP from the sidelines that each weapon's skills are always in the same order.

Remember, this game has aspirations of becoming an eSport, and I hope it succeeds in that respect.

 

Besides, after a little bit of playing without whining about these things, you shouldn't have problems with which skill is where on your skill bar (and if you do, you can always rebind your keys).

When gamers ask for something its not whining because you dont agree. I feel sorry for your close minded and small view of things. 

It can be. Example - a thread on this forum about why not open world PvP in GW2. The developers said the game was not designed for it and people are still, I have no other word for it, whining.

Just because players ask for something does not mean the company has to do it. people still talking about is whining.

Sad. As a customer you always have the right to express your mind with the company that takes your money. Funny how fan boys get offened so easly by peoples points of view that does not fit in their box.

I think I heard about it few months back but I thought they'd fix it before launch, not good if it's intentional after the launch.

I dont have a teleport in slot 2, and I dont want it in slot 2 this time either. It's in the last slot of my hotbar under the key Q. It's not in the slot 2, even if bound to Q. It's in the last slot. That's what's up.

It's not the end of the world, but it's going to be annoying as hell having to adapt to a whole new way of controlling my char in hotbar game after playing a decade with a similar layout and setting. All because a simple little option is missing for setting up the ability layout. I'll propably do reflex-misclicks 6 months into the game with this system if I still play it at that point... /sigh

i don't see the problem

there are 2 situations.

the system as it is now

1) you like where they are and you cannot change the keys -- you're happy

2) you do not like the keybinds and you cannot change them -- you're unhappy

the system the OP suggests or a very similar one!

1) you like where they are and you can change the keys -- you're happy

2) you do not like the keybinds and you can change them -- you're happy

notice how only one group of people would be affected.

seems like a pretty simple suggestion to support, especially considering skills could automatically go to the skill bar as they are now and unlock the exact same way this could be implemented so that the game does not change one bit for those who do not wish to concern themselves with it.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Ezhae

The layout is MOBA inspired. It's form lwoest CD to highest. Always. With every weapon. Personally I don't have any issue with it. 5 skills don't really make it hard to manage since all 5 keybinds are easily reachable anyway. Rest is just muscle memory. 

I dont care the order of the cool down. I care the order of what the skill does.

I agree completely with what Ezhea said.  UI customizability isn't really the point here.  Iit isn't really important, and it probably makes it easier for people watching PvP from the sidelines that each weapon's skills are always in the same order.

Remember, this game has aspirations of becoming an eSport, and I hope it succeeds in that respect.

 

Besides, after a little bit of playing without whining about these things, you shouldn't have problems with which skill is where on your skill bar (and if you do, you can always rebind your keys).

When gamers ask for something its not whining because you dont agree. I feel sorry for your close minded and small view of things. 

It can be. Example - a thread on this forum about why not open world PvP in GW2. The developers said the game was not designed for it and people are still, I have no other word for it, whining.

Just because players ask for something does not mean the company has to do it. people still talking about is whining.

Sad. As a customer you always have the right to express your mind with the company that takes your money. Funny how fan boys get offened so easly by peoples points of view that does not fit in their box.

I never said that you should stop critical analysis of features and content.  I was saying that, after saying what you don't like, preferably on the beta forums where devs are likely to read and discuss the topic, try playing the game as they are presenting it without being close minded about it.  I feel that the internal act of complaining to yourself whenever something is different than what you are use to, especially when trying to get a first impression of a game, is likely to be distracting and have a negative effect on your overall level of enjoyment of a game.  I am sure that the innability to change the position on weapon skills did not lessen your ability to play.

I don't mind if somebody doesn't agree with me on something, but I become frustrated when the difference of opinion is based on a close minded and small view of things.  This is why I decided to bring up the eSport side of the game, just as Ezhae brought up the similarity to MOBAs in general.  It was to broaden your view of things.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Not asking for huge thing IMO the ability to change where weapon skills are. I would really like to be able to put the hotkey in what order I want them. Like on the 1h sword for the guardian I would like teleport to be skill 5 not 2. Rooting skills I always put on hotkey 3. I dont get why there is no freedom in this. What do you think?

EDIT: Way it could work, say 1h sword be able to chage skill 1,2,3 to what order I want, same for 1h mace etc and with a 2h anywhere on skill 1,2,3,4 and 5. Each weapon could let you change the order for that weapon only. What logical for you may not be logical for me. Using keybinding makes it a mess for refresh timers. 

I have no problems but I don't see why not? It should be allowed in any game.

Ramanadjin - sums it up nicely, its a win-win situation.

The way to do it would be to allow players to move unlocked weapon skills around with in the weapon bar as displayed in the weapon skills tab. To keep things clean and logical, you could only swap the order of the skills for that weapon or aff hand. So, a main hand / off hand weapon set would only allow you to move the 1-3 skills around relative to each other and swap the position of the offhand skills between 4-5. A two handed weapon could allow re-arrangement of all five skills.

Anything else would become a complete mess with the weapon skill system, so complete freedom isn't likely to ever happen.

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

i don't see the problem

there are 2 situations.

the system as it is now

1) you like where they are and you cannot change the keys -- you're happy

2) you do not like the keybinds and you cannot change them -- you're unhappy

 

the system the OP suggests or a very similar one!

1) you like where they are and you can change the keys -- you're happy

2) you do not like the keybinds and you can change them -- you're happy

 

notice how only one group of people would be affected.

seems like a pretty simple suggestion to support, especially considering skills could automatically go to the skill bar as they are now and unlock the exact same way this could be implemented so that the game does not change one bit for those who do not wish to concern themselves with it.

Glad someone see it. Make a sugestion and people flip out. IMO options are always good to have.

Easy solution to your problems in 3 easy steps:

1. Go to the Menu
2. Go to Options
3. Find Keybinds and change them

Originally posted by PJone

I have a Razer Naga and changed all my bindings to various thumb panel buttons and modifier combinations. So you technically can have your teleport skill be #5, it just won't visually be there. While the argument can be used that it is not visually there, it is something that is easily gotten used to after putting enough hours into it. Hell, after playing an Elementalist for 51 levels I have a mental stopwatch of all the cooldowns for all the abilities in all 4 attunements to within 10% of them coming back up.

 

Tldr; Easy solution would be, like someone mentioned already, let people re-arrange the ability slots that you have already unlocked. There, done, problem solved. This is a very basic option in hotbar based games, even Diablo 3 has it in a similar environment where you unlock stuff in certain order, you can change the place of slots after you have unlocked abilities in that game.

I've played years of mmorpgs and I still take a peek many times during a combat at my abilities often to check CD's, I dont have multiple counters in my head for every ability and class. Now if I have the abilities in an order that the game forces on me, but keybinds where I want them, it's going to cause misclicks in the heat of the moment because the ability slot to keybind order is illogical. It's like having to learn to count in a different way, instead of 1 2 3 4 5 it's now 1 3 5 4 2 try to remember that in a tough spot.

If this was like WoW or Rift where I have 2 dozen or more potential abilities that I could make use of at any given time, I would very much agree. But the fact is you only have 10 at a time, only 5 of which ever change substantially. The UI is already so brilliantly done and full-functioned despite the minimalist approach that I personally see no reason that it needs changing.

It is not big deal if ANet changes it so that you can move the 1st 5 skills in addition to rebinding them, but that's my point, it's not a big deal in the reverse way of looking at things either. From what I've seen from most classes, the skill load outs on the bars are pretty intuitive, with the later skills (4 and 5) being situational, more scarcely used abilities, with typically longer cooldowns. I personally love the setup of the abilities on my Elementalist and to me it's flowing, intuitive, and fits in pretty well with how often I end up using the abilities. While I cannot say the same about the others being as flowing, because I have not played them, you couldn't pay me to rearrange them on my Elementalist.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Badaboom

I really could care less.  I think you should just learn and adapt.  What happens when you get a new weapon type and your reading the skills to select what slot you get and some monster kills you while you are pissing around.  I know, I know stupid situational example.  Anyways, just learn and adapt.

Really just asking for what every MMO lets you do. Select where you put what skill on your hotbar where you want it. Been doing this for 14 years, 3 is always root or AE stun. Why should I adapt when every MMO lets you have this small freedom?

 Because not every weapon has a stun maybe? The weapon determines what skills you have available. If you use a weapon with a stun then you might not have it in the 3 skill visually. You can bind your keys however you want, but that might get confusing. I doubt you'll be able to change the order of your skills for any given weaponset.

If you've grown so used to the 3=stun mindset and you think you can't change that anymore then you might have a problem playing GW2.

Originally posted by botrytis

Just because players ask for something does not mean the company has to do it. people still talking about is whining.

The term 'whining' has very negative connotations and can really get peoples backs up. Personally, I'd consider it an insult and wouldn't use it myself. There's just no need for it.

I'm fine with it now that I'm used to it, but as a warrior I still agree that we need to be able to change the keybindings for each weapon set. It would be nice if I could rebind my 1 through 5 keys without it making one of my two weapon set keybindings feel too funny.

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by PJone

I have a Razer Naga and changed all my bindings to various thumb panel buttons and modifier combinations. So you technically can have your teleport skill be #5, it just won't visually be there. While the argument can be used that it is not visually there, it is something that is easily gotten used to after putting enough hours into it. Hell, after playing an Elementalist for 51 levels I have a mental stopwatch of all the cooldowns for all the abilities in all 4 attunements to within 10% of them coming back up.

 

 

Tldr; Easy solution would be, like someone mentioned already, let people re-arrange the ability slots that you have already unlocked. There, done, problem solved. This is a very basic option in hotbar based games, even Diablo 3 has it in a similar environment where you unlock stuff in certain order, you can change the place of slots after you have unlocked abilities in that game.

 

I've played years of mmorpgs and I still take a peek many times during a combat at my abilities often to check CD's, I dont have multiple counters in my head for every ability and class. Now if I have the abilities in an order that the game forces on me, but keybinds where I want them, it's going to cause misclicks in the heat of the moment because the ability slot to keybind order is illogical. It's like having to learn to count in a different way, instead of 1 2 3 4 5 it's now 1 3 5 4 2 try to remember that in a tough spot.

Well said Kuinn, thats my problem. The skills are in order of smallest to longest cool down and thats not helpful to me. I would rather then in the order of, hotkey 1 opener attack, hotkey 2 2nd attact most used, then have my stuns, roots and esscape hotkeys on 3,4,5. 20-30 skills a class I need them in a logical order for me not not smallest to longest cool down.

Originally posted by lilHeala

It would certainly be nice if that's possible but I also can see why it's not that easy to implement (mechanics of unlocking skills and main hand / off hand) as some folks suggest. But I'm not that fussed tbh because I can also adapt to the game instead of having the game adapt to my wishes. We're too spoiled these days and if a studio doesn't include a feature we're used to having in every other mmo we start whining like spoiled lil brats should.

How is that difficult? Where the skills appears on the hotbar doesnt affect the order in which it unlocks, nor which hand its in. The UI has no bearing on game mechanics.

Originally posted by thedarkess

You can change hotkey for skills, but you can't rearrange first 5 skills.

So you can make key 1 to activate skill 3, but you can't move skill 3 to slot 1.

 

I don't care because they are arranged in logical order depending on first hand weapon and offhand.

If this is the case, it would be pretty much a non issue for me. At the same time why not allow them to be moved around?

I also move my abilities into a logical order for myself.

Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

i don't see the problem

there are 2 situations.

the system as it is now

1) you like where they are and you cannot change the keys -- you're happy

2) you do not like the keybinds and you cannot change them -- you're unhappy

 

the system the OP suggests or a very similar one!

1) you like where they are and you can change the keys -- you're happy

2) you do not like the keybinds and you can change them -- you're happy

 

notice how only one group of people would be affected.

seems like a pretty simple suggestion to support, especially considering skills could automatically go to the skill bar as they are now and unlock the exact same way this could be implemented so that the game does not change one bit for those who do not wish to concern themselves with it.

The problem is that then you cant force others to play your way or maintain the illusion that the developers are gods.