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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Combat is terrible, worse beyond Kingsmouth

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292 posts found
  udon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1593

7/05/12 2:02:41 PM#121
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Elikal

UPDATE: After spending one day returning to Savage Coast, pimping my char and - after advise - getting a few different skills, I returned to Blue Mountain, only to find a vast number of quest I just CAN NOT solo. And I have just zero will to stand in the LFG chat all day like a harbour harlot "looking for company" all the time.

Right now I seriously consider to cancel the game, as much as I like the rest, I don't need combat that makes me grind my teeth and makes me feel horribly weak. LIFE does that already, and that is just as much pain and hardship I can carry.

 

Sigh. It's a pity, because I really love the world and setting. But this combat... it just feel like going to a dentist.

what are these quests you can't solo conning as when you take them? hard? very hard? normal?

Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

AR can really stand on it's own as a single weapon build.  The only thing I use from another weapon is Big 44 from pistols as a pistol resource consumer.  

Open with a AOE slow, fire off the resource builder to get 5 AR resources right away, use either a single target or AOE finisher depending on mobs, fire builder until 5 of each resources, finisher, finisher, repeat.  Throw in a heal or two as a option (although I will say that AR heals are weak if you don't use +heal items) and you can take on a lot.  If I wasn't obsessed with getting my Templar deck outfit for AR/Pistols I would probably swap out pistols for ele or blood.  That will come soon enough however.

I do use energy drinks on tougher fights (they seem to drop a lot more starting in Blue Mountains) but I'm heaviliy DPS specced so I'm not really surprised.

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 977

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

7/05/12 2:20:44 PM#122

proper deck,...

didn't give it time,...

not the right build...

didn't get to the good content

, ... and not to mention the length of the this thread. It's someones opinion guys, not everyones. I am not getting it due to the cash shop, but even I , a person that is not a fan nor a hater can tell the OP was just giving thoughts about the game as they see it. The excuses given in any MMO by the fan base as of late are just dumb.

If someone needs to follow these reasons given by the fanbase to make the game fun, I would say those same reason (build your skills the way you want too! , have exciting engaging stories and combat right at the start! ) are all just a bunch of hog wash. You can't have it both ways.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  NavyJackal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/12/08
Posts: 84

7/05/12 2:43:30 PM#123
Originally posted by Kost

Interesting, yet on 6/18/12 the OP posted this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5068284

Seems like you've flip flopped rather suddenly, because you certainly seemed happy with the game then - and live is a pretty significant improvement over beta.

I don't really see the point of your post.  In both instances the OP stated that he enjoyed the game, and that the atmosphere, graphics and such were great.  

Now that he's had a chance to dig deeper into it he's/she's found that the combat is not to his liking to the degree that it's making the game unplayable for him/her.   He isn't saying the game is terrible or anything (in fact he's said the opposite)  he's just pointing out that the combat isn't enjoyable, and I have to agree.  Doesn't mean the OP has 'flopped' as you put it.   And if they did, I still don't get the point of your post.  Are you saying that someone can't change their mind about something?  That because he liked the game in beta that he has to enjoy liking it the rest of his/her life?

  Poison_Adele

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 293

7/05/12 2:47:09 PM#124
I'm amazed how people continue to post telling OP what he did wrong when he has not described his combat experience as anything but "bad".
I guess the psychic powers in TSW transfer to its players.

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

7/05/12 2:51:24 PM#125
Originally posted by NavyJackal
Originally posted by Kost

Interesting, yet on 6/18/12 the OP posted this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5068284

Seems like you've flip flopped rather suddenly, because you certainly seemed happy with the game then - and live is a pretty significant improvement over beta.

I don't really see the point of your post.  In both instances the OP stated that he enjoyed the game, and that the atmosphere, graphics and such were great.  

Now that he's had a chance to dig deeper into it he's/she's found that the combat is not to his liking to the degree that it's making the game unplayable for him/her.   He isn't saying the game is terrible or anything (in fact he's said the opposite)  he's just pointing out that the combat isn't enjoyable, and I have to agree.  Doesn't mean the OP has 'flopped' as you put it.   And if they did, I still don't get the point of your post.  Are you saying that someone can't change their mind about something?  That because he liked the game in beta that he has to enjoy liking it the rest of his/her life?

 

I have seen some posters go from not liking the game to liking it in a span of a month or so and I find it strange because the game hasn't changed that much in the last month or two. I usually feel that way when I lie to myself about liking an MMO only to realize that......I lied to myself.

  Kost

Newshound

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 1972

In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.

7/05/12 3:00:41 PM#126
Originally posted by TalulaRose
Originally posted by NavyJackal
Originally posted by Kost

Interesting, yet on 6/18/12 the OP posted this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5068284

Seems like you've flip flopped rather suddenly, because you certainly seemed happy with the game then - and live is a pretty significant improvement over beta.

I don't really see the point of your post.  In both instances the OP stated that he enjoyed the game, and that the atmosphere, graphics and such were great.  

Now that he's had a chance to dig deeper into it he's/she's found that the combat is not to his liking to the degree that it's making the game unplayable for him/her.   He isn't saying the game is terrible or anything (in fact he's said the opposite)  he's just pointing out that the combat isn't enjoyable, and I have to agree.  Doesn't mean the OP has 'flopped' as you put it.   And if they did, I still don't get the point of your post.  Are you saying that someone can't change their mind about something?  That because he liked the game in beta that he has to enjoy liking it the rest of his/her life?

 

I have seen some posters go from not liking the game to liking it in a span of a month or so and I find it strange because the game hasn't changed that much in the last month or two. I usually feel that way when I lie to myself about liking an MMO only to realize that......I lied to myself.

I'm glad someone gets it, really wasn't a hard premise to grasp.

  LydarSynn

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/03
Posts: 164

7/05/12 3:04:24 PM#127

Is it FTP yet?

  Kost

Newshound

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 1972

In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.

7/05/12 3:09:36 PM#128
Originally posted by Elikal

Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

Blades/AR is one of the strongest combinations in the game currently. Elementalism is extremely powerful as well.

I sure hope you didn't check the forums, see that people were posting that Blade/AR and Ele were OP, and then try to build off that knowledge in the hope that you would be able to skate through the content. Bad idea.

You need to take a look at the way you have built your character and adjust. Blue Mountains is a significant ramp up in difficulty, however, if you're having serious issues then something is obviously wrong. Despite the increased difficulty you should not be roadblocked at Blue Mountains by any means, and the fact that you are leads me to believe the issues is entirely your build (or possibly your build and a combination of your gear, which I cannot see, so I cannot make an informed assessment to try and assist you further).

I was a closed beta participant from the first phase of invites right until early access, and I still take time out of my day to contribute on TestLive. You don't get much more informed than I am.

The bottom line is that plenty of players are soloing through Blue Mountains without any problem, and enjoy the challenge of doing so. The fact that you are not is greatly indicative of an issue with your character, not the game as a whole.

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

7/05/12 3:34:19 PM#129

The only people who think the combat is complex or the game is difficult are those who don't have a good grasp of the mechanics yet.

  Xithryl

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 257

"All dreams can come true if we have the courage to pursue them." -Walt Disney

7/05/12 3:40:39 PM#130

Combat is kinda lame, but the game is still awesome imo, im having fun playing it, right now I'm playing while waiting for GW2 yes, but the more I play the more I question... Am I really gonna be done when GW2 comes out? Only time will tell! I do wonder if I will come back after GW2 launch...

xithryl Xfire Miniprofile
  dumpcat

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 232

7/05/12 4:24:01 PM#131
Originally posted by XiThRyL

Combat is kinda lame, but the game is still awesome imo, im having fun playing it, right now I'm playing while waiting for GW2 yes, but the more I play the more I question... Am I really gonna be done when GW2 comes out? Only time will tell! I do wonder if I will come back after GW2 launch...

 

I am in the same boat. I love TSW and so far from the two BWEs I have been in for GW2, I love it as well. One saving grace is that GW2 does not have the monthly sub, so I can justify playing both.
  Tdogz27

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 21

7/05/12 4:26:47 PM#132

The game is good, but just not finished imho. 

Yes, everything gets worse after Kingsmouth.

I am a long-term beta tester, and I wrote up a longer review that you may find here:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/356322/Review-from-longterm-beta-tester.html

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

7/05/12 4:38:52 PM#133
Originally posted by Elikal
Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

Read Yokai's guide to AR + blades. This is a very experienced player who has several guides for TSW. I'm not saying you need to copy his exact build (would take you a while anyway since he has several outer wheel passive abilites from 3 different weapons... Shotgun 12 Gouge is a beauty though) but read what he has to say about his choices and why he made them.

 

This should give you some insight into the complexities of designing a good deck with rational synergies.

 

I am also playing AR/Rifle and following his spec fairly closely but I've taken a break from that to level Ele + blood. The reason I did this is because I wanted to have a solid ranged DPS spec for dungeons.

 

When people say that AR is the highest DPS heal spec, you have to take that in context. I.e. it sucks balls compared to a real non-healing DPS spec. The DPS in Blades + AR comes almost totally from blades actives (with some nice bonuses from AR and Shotgun passives) so it's a melee DPS build.

 

Funny thing though... I've been running around with my Ele/Blood build mowing things down. Then I got a Templar Faction mission where I have to pursue a templar thief who stole something. Whne I finally caught up to him and the Illuminati and Dragon guys whp also wanted the artifact, I had my ass handed to me in short order using Ele/Blood... Switched to Blades/AR after respawn and I mowed all 3 down no-sweat with a full health bar most of the fight.

 

Blades + AR is a helluva spec. Don't give up on it, just improve it.

 

Link to Yokai's Build Page:  http://yokaiblog.wikidot.com/yokaibuilds 

 

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

7/05/12 6:09:21 PM#134
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Elikal
Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

Read Yokai's guide to AR + blades. This is a very experienced player who has several guides for TSW. I'm not saying you need to copy his exact build (would take you a while anyway since he has several outer wheel passive abilites from 3 different weapons... Shotgun 12 Gouge is a beauty though) but read what he has to say about his choices and why he made them.

 

This should give you some insight into the complexities of designing a good deck with rational synergies.

 

I am also playing AR/Rifle and following his spec fairly closely but I've taken a break from that to level Ele + blood. The reason I did this is because I wanted to have a solid ranged DPS spec for dungeons.

 

When people say that AR is the highest DPS heal spec, you have to take that in context. I.e. it sucks balls compared to a real non-healing DPS spec. The DPS in Blades + AR comes almost totally from blades actives (with some nice bonuses from AR and Shotgun passives) so it's a melee DPS build.

 

Funny thing though... I've been running around with my Ele/Blood build mowing things down. Then I got a Templar Faction mission where I have to pursue a templar thief who stole something. Whne I finally caught up to him and the Illuminati and Dragon guys whp also wanted the artifact, I had my ass handed to me in short order using Ele/Blood... Switched to Blades/AR after respawn and I mowed all 3 down no-sweat with a full health bar most of the fight.

 

Blades + AR is a helluva spec. Don't give up on it, just improve it.

 

Link to Yokai's Build Page:  http://yokaiblog.wikidot.com/yokaibuilds 

 

This is the biggest problem with the skill/deck system atm. There are very few truly viable builds and if you don't use the FotM build, you really suffer for it. There are a number of builds with high levels of synergy that still suck. In too many cases, building the synergies gives you very little benefit beyond a more random mix of "most powerful skills" unlocked and available.

The game needs massive skill rebalancing, hopefully beefing up the underpowered skills and synergies, rather than nerfing the relatively OP'd builds, because the game is clearly balanced around people using the most uber FotM build they can find.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

7/05/12 6:29:37 PM#135
Originally posted by Kost
Originally posted by Elikal

Somehow ALL quests in Blue Mountains are either hard or every hard! Despite the fact I made ALL Kingsmouth quests and the Savage Coast quests even TWICE!

Is there anyone who has a really strong built, ideally involving either Sword + AR or Sword + Ele? I am SOOOO tired of endless rows of death. :(

And PLEASE not some halfassed experts. Only advise from people who really know what they say. I will make one more try, so that last try MUST work, proven by calculation experts not hearsay wisdom.

Blades/AR is one of the strongest combinations in the game currently. Elementalism is extremely powerful as well.

I sure hope you didn't check the forums, see that people were posting that Blade/AR and Ele were OP, and then try to build off that knowledge in the hope that you would be able to skate through the content. Bad idea.

You need to take a look at the way you have built your character and adjust. Blue Mountains is a significant ramp up in difficulty, however, if you're having serious issues then something is obviously wrong. Despite the increased difficulty you should not be roadblocked at Blue Mountains by any means, and the fact that you are leads me to believe the issues is entirely your build (or possibly your build and a combination of your gear, which I cannot see, so I cannot make an informed assessment to try and assist you further).

I was a closed beta participant from the first phase of invites right until early access, and I still take time out of my day to contribute on TestLive. You don't get much more informed than I am.

The bottom line is that plenty of players are soloing through Blue Mountains without any problem, and enjoy the challenge of doing so. The fact that you are not is greatly indicative of an issue with your character, not the game as a whole.

I don't get this post.

You acknowledge that there are builds that are much more capable than others, then you say that you shouldn't just try to copy established, powerful builds, but rather find your own, only to then say that if you are having problems, your build is wrong!

Sadly, the proper thing to do is to follow a guide that highlights a currently acknowledged high powered build, so that you can tackle content successfully, then spend any excess AP on experimental builds, many of which will seem to have great synergy on paper, but will still greatly underperform the current FotM builds.

Skill balance is horrible in the game. Unfortunately, the problem isn't a few OP builds, since content seems to be balanced for those OP builds. The problem is the other 99.5% of builds, obtainable by the time you reach Blue Mountains on a single play through, that are just not able to handle the content, no matter how synergistic they may be.

A hard lesson for me has been the discovery that many synergistic builds are based on skills who's base numbers are so low that even with full synergy you don't get a pay off for the synergy in line with the effort or on par with the few high powered builds.

It's great for hard core theorycrafters who like being able to find one build in 10,000 that blows the rest away, but it's bad for the rest of us who don't like to play games with cookie cutter, FotM builds.

It takes a long time to unlock the faction decks, I hope they are all viable once you get there, because if even the Funcom built decks have a high fail ratio, then there will be no greater indication of how FUBAR skill balance is in TSW.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  m0ck

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 27

7/05/12 6:46:01 PM#136

Speculation and make-believe, that's about how I would sum up your post. I don't think  the game is anywhere near explored enough to come to the conclusions you're pushing. It may be that you're right, that it will end up with a select few builds that are much stronger than everything else - but we just don't know yet. Wathcing meta-games develop, you would know that that kind of development takes time and effort from a lot of people. To sit judge over the combination and synergy of more than 500 skills is premature.

To your second point, I don't think it's  a problem that you need an efficient build in order to be an efficient player. To me, 'play as you like' doesn't mean that you should be able to pick any 14 skills at random and be just as viable as everyone else? That sounds extraordinarily naive in my ears, possible even intentionally so.

Only a few OP builds able to do the content? I really don't recognize that. I've mixed and matched on my own and have never felt that I had no chance against what I was up against. Sometimes I have had to adopt, as is part of the developers plan for the world, that you can't just power through with 'your' build, but that you must be flexible and develop your character, but what of it?

And lets say that you're right - that some builds will be found to be OP and to blow all others out of the water. Well, we'll go through the same process as every other MMO ever has. Balancing and tweaking and nerfing and buffing. It is inevitable, as I see it. 

*Edit to remove assholedom

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

7/05/12 7:00:01 PM#137
Originally posted by fiontar

This is the biggest problem with the skill/deck system atm. There are very few truly viable builds and if you don't use the FotM build, you really suffer for it. There are a number of builds with high levels of synergy that still suck. In too many cases, building the synergies gives you very little benefit beyond a more random mix of "most powerful skills" unlocked and available.

The game needs massive skill rebalancing, hopefully beefing up the underpowered skills and synergies, rather than nerfing the relatively OP'd builds, because the game is clearly balanced around people using the most uber FotM build they can find.

Well if you were in the closed beta (I wasn't) I suppose you'd have strong opinions on what needs buffing and what doesn't. It happens in every MMO once people settle in and get to know the system really well.

 

I don't know what FotM has to do with AR + blades or Yokai's build--and he has several in other posts. Maybe I'm just too new to know better but the system looks like a lot of fun to explore, mix and match. And so far the stuff I'm putting together myself seems to be working... shrug.

 

That's not to say that I'm above getting to a point in an MMO where I know a class or a particular set of skills better than the devs do (or so I think anyway.) When that happens, yeah, I throw terms like "FotM", "nerf" and "buff" around. That's my "MMO critic" mode. With TSW I'm blissfully ignorant about the inevitable closed beta board arguments on what needed a buff and what didn't, the winners and the losers.

 

Lucky me, I get to just play and enjoy the game.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

7/05/12 7:28:34 PM#138

I played probably every big MMO there is. I played computer games since C64 days, I made maps on chequered paper and journal entries on paper, and I played computer games in days when they were *really* difficult.

Difference is: then was then and now is now. I changed. My patience is now that I am in my advanced age of 41, less. I still want to think, puzzle, combine and try out. But I do *not* want certain levels of frustration, and as one compatriot here pointed out: as I see it Funcom is here in real danger to lose a majority of it's players soon. I know and totally respect that some people like exactly that difficulty. That's ok. When I was 20, I liked that too. But now I have an adult life, and I game less for proving myself, I play to relax. And while I was totally ready to go back to a previous zone and repeat it COMPLETELY one time to alter my skill-set, and I was trying out 20-30 combinations, that is as far as my patience goes. A game must welcome me. It must adapt to my playstyle and my wishes, I do not want a sort of "education" game which forces me to look after optimal built guides. I want a game where I with my level of intelligence can within a reasonable time of study and experiment can come up with a built that allows me a fluid experience.


Atm TSW does NOT allow that. And imvpo I think that is a flaw. I did reasonable amounts of study, experimentation and trying out stuff into it, and at a certain point a game just has to work. A game needs a certain natural flow. And TSW just doesn't have this flow. There were just many places in Blue Mountain area where the mobs respawned faster than I could kill then. Period. And trust me, when you try 30 builts with your QL5-6 gear, that is as good as it gets.


Let's just not be in denial. This game has a big issue. Period.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

7/05/12 7:43:01 PM#139
Originally posted by xenpt

I agree with op, this game is really good in everything except gameplay , it is one of the worst gameplays i have ever seen in my live.

here's some MMO combat videos

Vanguard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNpb1vGNbpY&feature=relmfu

LOTRO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eg7XSKjpKQ&feature=related

Rift

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkLZpdFtiOA&feature=related

SWTOR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ptv1lyZECk

TERA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJLGFXkERXo&feature=relmfu

 

okay now here is my combat video from TSW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGvcJ8GRNzI

compared to all these other MMOs I listed games combat looks fine to me

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  m0ck

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/06
Posts: 27

7/05/12 8:01:41 PM#140

Elikal, you're not the first one to be frustrated by blue mountains, that's fir sure. If it is any consolation, Egypt opens up again. You may wan't to go to the first zone in Egypt for now, at some places it is easier than Blue Mountains. 

If you have any patience for reading still, there is also this great guide (and great site):

http://yokaiblog.wikidot.com/guides:tswfaq#toc6

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