Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Meowhead

There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

That's not GW2, Rift, or any mmorpgs fault. It's the way players are today. Nobody wants to talk or communicate, only stick with RL friends, family and guldies.

If you want more communication, and as much as i wich it wasn't so, it as to be forced upon.

I agree to what fenistil said.

Developers are almost in a lose lose situation. Either people complain that there is forced grouping or they complain that it's too solo oriented and there is too little socializing and community.

It would be interesting to have a game where different areas are played differently in this regard. Just to see where most people go. How many would prefer the more oldschool grouping over the solo stuff? Who knows.

Personally, I prefer group play. I like socializing while leveling. But that's personal taste, wouldn't blame others for choosing to solo.

I do think 'public quests' tend to succumb to the zerg factor.  They did in WAR and they did in Rift.  They can be extremely fun and challenging for a group of players though - kind of like an open world raid.

Originally posted by Gaendric

I agree to what fenistil said.

Developers are almost in a lose lose situation. Either people complain that there is forced grouping or they complain that it's too solo oriented and there is too little socializing and community.

It would be interesting to have a game where different areas are played differently in this regard. Just to see where most people go. How many would prefer the more oldschool grouping over the solo stuff? Who knows.

Personally, I prefer group play. I like socializing while leveling. But that's personal taste, wouldn't blame others for choosing to solo.

The problem is that there is no inbetween really.  Its either pure solo content or end-game content designed for full groups of players.

The fact that games now need to include a "content finder" is kind of sad.  I remember in the good ole days of EQ, you could party up with 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 more players and find fun, engaging content to do.  It didn't matter what your party size was, there was always something there for you.

Now, a bulk of the MMO is "solo" content with the ridiculous grindy end-game.  Devs need to find a way to strike a balance.

OP, dont bother with all the sheeps, they just enjoy finding comfort in the zerg-blob, so that their obvious lack of "skills" aint put in display.

Anyways, i do understand what your saying, but on the other hand, im sure you would enjoy large scale pvp, if they made players make a diffrence. The thing, that the companies does theese days, kinda kills it though. There is no penality to the zerg,   basicly the mechanics the companies introduces enforces zerg play, forexample being able to run back/die with no form on penality. You dont get zerg games in hon, why? Cause dying matters, if you die to many times, its a free win to the other team. In a mmo, its kinda like, "oh i died? Guess ill just rofl back and join the zerg again, and take part in this awsome pvp, which basicly is turned into a gear grind, where time spent in the zerg is what matters". 

So yeah, the sheep-mentality is what is killing games, its not the large scale nature of the batttles.  The sheeps doesnt like the fact though, that they are sheeps, so they will generally rage and say, you should go back to whatever game, so they can live happyli in their sheep-bubble. Sad thing is, RL doesnt reward sheeps, so yeah, i kinda pity them.

Originally posted by Cromica

Pretty sure mmos are not for you.

Seconded.

Super Mario Bros. pairs you with one of two brothers where you alone get to conquor a hostile environment and save a Princess.

Stick to that OP.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Meowhead

There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

That's not GW2, Rift, or any mmorpgs fault. It's the way players are today. Nobody wants to talk or communicate, only stick with RL friends, family and guldies.

If you want more communication, and as much as i wich it wasn't so, it as to be forced upon.

I would say it is 50 / 50 fault. Players won't bother communicating unless the game incorporates that level of team work and involvement where players have to cummunicate and progress further. It can be done without forcing it on players. Atleast that is what i think.

If everyone just stick to RL friends and guildies what fun it would be? the real appeal of GW2 DE's is to play with 100's of other players, just rush in in with random strangers and work towards common objective. Now  if only felt that you are actually playing with others it would be perfect.

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Meowhead

There are lots of unpopular games where you would be lucky to find 10 people on the whole server, perhaps you should look into one of those?

If I was a horrible person, I'd insert a SWTOR joke right about now. :(

Here is the thing,  yes i love to see people running around, it makes the world feel alive but is that it? when i played Rift and GW2 beta i noticied somethign similar. Players were playing at the side of each other but not with each other.

Hardly any communication. Once goals were met people went on to their own ways, an ocassional 'hello' and 'good bye'...rinse and repeat...i can't tell you how boring it was.

That's not GW2, Rift, or any mmorpgs fault. It's the way players are today. Nobody wants to talk or communicate, only stick with RL friends, family and guldies.

If you want more communication, and as much as i wich it wasn't so, it as to be forced upon.

I would say it is 5 / 50 fault. Players won't bother communicating unless the game incorporates that level of team work and involvement where players have to cummunicate and progress further. It can be done without forcing it on players. Atleast that is what i think.

Well it was done before.

UO had some great moments where players had to communicate in a large scale to either successfully tear down or defend various points.

Shadowbane and a few other games like that also had large scale battles that wasn't forced into a 1 v 1 or 1 v 1 v 1 even situation. I remember plenty of times when rune spawn points would become pvp battles with at the least 5 factions fighting  and upwards to many dozen. 

Safe gamers want more control than that tho'. Game companies have more control by limiting it as well.

Overall it's just how humans are split.

There are those that like to lead, those that like to follow, and those who think it's better to just get the hell out of the way.

I'd like to see more freedom in MMOs to where large scale battles meant a bit more than timed scenarios. But we're where we're at because most players can't handle freedom.

One thing I take from the OP's post is that he still thinks there are separate ranged and melee professions in GW2. I think it's possible that some of what you're experiencing can be summed up in a meme... You're doing it wrong.

Originally posted by Johnnymmo
Sorry but fighting the shadow behemoth was not very complex. It was boss mechanics at the most basic. Just a zerg. No communication at all between players. I understand they cant be complex because of the player base but this was extremely uninspiring

Yeah... I definitely expected more from a level 15 boss just outside the starting areas.

ANet's made it clear that the complexity ramps up as you progress in the game. The Behemoth is your basic "Introduction to World Bosses 101" training boss. You see him emerge, crap your pants and have fun taking him down as you learn basic mechanics, such as the importance of getting out of the red circles, knowing when to change to the appropriate targets at the right time, etc.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Johnnymmo
Sorry but fighting the shadow behemoth was not very complex. It was boss mechanics at the most basic. Just a zerg. No communication at all between players. I understand they cant be complex because of the player base but this was extremely uninspiring

Yeah... I definitely expected more from a level 15 boss just outside the starting areas.

 

ANet's made it clear that the complexity ramps up as you progress in the game. The Behemoth is your basic "Introduction to World Bosses 101" training boss. You see him emerge, crap your pants and have fun taking him down as you learn basic mechanics, such as the importance of getting out of the red circles, knowing when to change to the appropriate targets at the right time, etc.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Kykyryz-a

Sorry but here you are kinda making no sense. WoW Arena never beed Skill based only if you got gear and somehow  against ppl who geared same.  And GW2  in theory will be perfect for you if you Like "arena"   as you will be 100%  skill dependant and  1 player can make a difference.   WvWvW sure not for  "rambo" types of ppl who want to  solo take a keep :) 

DE  also  only gor over populated due to Insane amount of ppl in BWEs  and later on in 15-35 zones  it became nice 3-5 man events where you  could do any role you want  DD or try to  heal/revive ppl. 

P.S WoW real raids were best part of the game MC 40 man  or original Naxx 40 man.  ^) 

I agree there, the big difference between Wow and GW2 in this aspect is that GW2 got a very limited amount of solocontent and it ain´t the perfect game for soloers, which Wow on the other hand have put more and more focus on.

GW2s arenas are great and the same goes for the dungeons but soloers might consider finding another game more for them, there are plenty out there. You just can´t please everyone, and I don´t think that you even should try since that waters down the content.

I disagree, GW2 couldn't be more perfect for soloers. You can run around soloing, but at the same time happen upon a group doing various things and sort of join them via the ad hoc grouping that exists. You also cannot make ANY kind of a judgement how the game will ultimately look like during the BWEs. During the BWEs and the first few months of GW2 you will see a larger number of folks in the lower level zones, once you start to break out from the crowd a bit more, things will probably be less "zerg-fest" all around. The herd needs to spread out a bit more, and it will.

Soloing in WoW is purely for all of the levels before you reach cap. You do all of your leveling solo, and then to do anything more at the cap you have to start grouping. So you either go through LFD, or do instances with friends and then eventually move onto 10 or 25 man raids. It's not exactly a soloers paradise, except for the first 84 levels which get really stale when you don't see another soul around for hours. I would say WoW is less solo friendly at level cap than GW2 will be.

I have evolved into pretty much a solo player over the years, raids bore me to tears with the you stand here and spam this attack while the other guy stnads over there and spams such and such a spell and the healer stands over by that spot etc etc etc.

I do love the solo content in games like LoTRO and TOR and conversing with guildies via vent or LoTRO's voice chat on he news of the day or whatever. Time will tell on GW2, I have my lifetime LoTRO account and am not dropping my TOR account until I get a better look at the W v W v W combat.

Anyway no way one game can satisfy everyone and considering I spent more on lunch for my wife and myself yesterday than what GW2 costs I am willing to gamble a bit.

I do know what you mean, I think, but I kind of like both large scale group efforts (or whole server) as well as smaller group efforts.  I love good teamwork, and being part of a group where we all play strategicall, and well, but I also love the excitement of being part of a huge group players streaming towards one particular goal.

Originally posted by jayarte

I do know what you mean, I think, but I kind of like both large scale group efforts (or whole server) as well as smaller group efforts.  I love good teamwork, and being part of a group where we all play strategicall, and well, but I also love the excitement of being part of a huge group players streaming towards one particular goal.

Large scale group effort is too much work. Whatever the leader says, at least half of the people are not listening.

in my experience, it is much more rewarding to play in small groups. 3-5 is ideal.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jayarte

I do know what you mean, I think, but I kind of like both large scale group efforts (or whole server) as well as smaller group efforts.  I love good teamwork, and being part of a group where we all play strategicall, and well, but I also love the excitement of being part of a huge group players streaming towards one particular goal.

Large scale group effort is too much work. Whatever the leader says, at least half of the people are not listening.

in my experience, it is much more rewarding to play in small groups. 3-5 is ideal.

Yes, I would agree with your point.  It is most frustrating that lots of people won't be listening to any tactics/plans, and this does mar my enjoyment of large scale group effort.  Nevertheless, my enjoyment at being part of a huge group of players streaming into a battlefield, or towards a particular target still stands. 

I'll never forget my first experience of that in Kalonline (first mmo I played) and it was amazing.  But, yes, the frustration soon set in when I realised people would split up and do their own thing.

Originally posted by jayarte

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jayarte

I do know what you mean, I think, but I kind of like both large scale group efforts (or whole server) as well as smaller group efforts.  I love good teamwork, and being part of a group where we all play strategicall, and well, but I also love the excitement of being part of a huge group players streaming towards one particular goal.

Large scale group effort is too much work. Whatever the leader says, at least half of the people are not listening.

in my experience, it is much more rewarding to play in small groups. 3-5 is ideal.

Yes, I would agree with your point.  It is most frustrating that lots of people won't be listening to any tactics/plans, and this does mar my enjoyment of large scale group effort.  Nevertheless, my enjoyment at being part of a huge group of players streaming into a battlefield, or towards a particular target still stands. 

I'll never forget my first experience of that in Kalonline (first mmo I played) and it was amazing.  But, yes, the frustration soon set in when I realised people would split up and do their own thing.

In this day & age, you won't have a well organized large group (say even 40) of players. Most players want to just jump in and have some fun. It is not possible to have good coordination with a large group without some training. And there is no way to coordinate a large group to train.

Players groups are not military organization. Pretending to be won't make it true.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jayarte

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jayarte

I do know what you mean, I think, but I kind of like both large scale group efforts (or whole server) as well as smaller group efforts.  I love good teamwork, and being part of a group where we all play strategicall, and well, but I also love the excitement of being part of a huge group players streaming towards one particular goal.

Large scale group effort is too much work. Whatever the leader says, at least half of the people are not listening.

in my experience, it is much more rewarding to play in small groups. 3-5 is ideal.

Yes, I would agree with your point.  It is most frustrating that lots of people won't be listening to any tactics/plans, and this does mar my enjoyment of large scale group effort.  Nevertheless, my enjoyment at being part of a huge group of players streaming into a battlefield, or towards a particular target still stands. 

I'll never forget my first experience of that in Kalonline (first mmo I played) and it was amazing.  But, yes, the frustration soon set in when I realised people would split up and do their own thing.

In this day & age, you won't have a well organized large group (say even 40) of players. Most players want to just jump in and have some fun. It is not possible to have good coordination with a large group without some training. And there is no way to coordinate a large group to train.

Players groups are not military organization. Pretending to be won't make it true.

My point was simply that, despite any frustrations, I do still sometimes enjoy the feeling of being part of a large crowd of players in pvp.

People seem to be focussing on the aspect I said I didn't enjoy as much, rather than the bit I said I did enjoy.  Just saying.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jayarte

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by jayarte

I do know what you mean, I think, but I kind of like both large scale group efforts (or whole server) as well as smaller group efforts.  I love good teamwork, and being part of a group where we all play strategicall, and well, but I also love the excitement of being part of a huge group players streaming towards one particular goal.

Large scale group effort is too much work. Whatever the leader says, at least half of the people are not listening.

in my experience, it is much more rewarding to play in small groups. 3-5 is ideal.

Yes, I would agree with your point.  It is most frustrating that lots of people won't be listening to any tactics/plans, and this does mar my enjoyment of large scale group effort.  Nevertheless, my enjoyment at being part of a huge group of players streaming into a battlefield, or towards a particular target still stands. 

I'll never forget my first experience of that in Kalonline (first mmo I played) and it was amazing.  But, yes, the frustration soon set in when I realised people would split up and do their own thing.

In this day & age, you won't have a well organized large group (say even 40) of players. Most players want to just jump in and have some fun. It is not possible to have good coordination with a large group without some training. And there is no way to coordinate a large group to train.

Players groups are not military organization. Pretending to be won't make it true.

Actually that isn't really true.  People are gonna listen to you if you have something that benefits them. In aion, it was quite easy to get people to listen to you because all the bigger events rewarded you with something you couldn't achieve without a big group so player were FORCED to listen. I know that is how the guild I was in was able to control its member to some degree, ofc that only works if they are rewards the people want, the moment the rewards are gone, things will be as you said. (this ended up happening to the guild I was in).