Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

 

 

L2 and Aion are bigger World Wide then Everquest 2 ever was or will ever be. 

But this is NA/EU we are talking about, so world wide isnt in the discussion.  I saw a post here indicating the peak population of L2 for the NA/EU region was 125k.  EQ2 had more than that when it went f2p.

L2 and Aion are not considered good games by the majority of the western market.

 

I am not talking about the western market. We are talking about the quality of the games and if thats what we are doing then you measure there success World Wide.  World Of Warcraft had 15 million and still has over 10 Million. Should we not count that since most of those subs are not NA / EU?

Lineage 2 and Aion are poor quality games by NA/EU standards.  World of Warcraft is not.

You are trying to make Aion and L2 seem better because the asian market has embraced them, but that is completely irrelevant in the west.  And as far as I know, Aion and L2 did NOT go free to play in their main market, only the market where no one really played them anyway.  

If L2 and Aion were so good, how come even when they are free to play people ignore them?

Originally posted by Mannish

 

 

I totally agree that I would rather play games from companys like Perfect World and G Potata because at least they dont restrict content. I dont see how people play these games where they cant do things like use auction house, world chat, choose any race or class, go to certain zones or areas, wear certain gear or limited to carrying only a small amout of gold or items. LMAO

Name a single piece of CONTENT that is restricted in Vanguard to free to play?

There is a difference between features and content....

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

 

 

L2 and Aion are bigger World Wide then Everquest 2 ever was or will ever be. 

But this is NA/EU we are talking about, so world wide isnt in the discussion.  I saw a post here indicating the peak population of L2 for the NA/EU region was 125k.  EQ2 had more than that when it went f2p.

L2 and Aion are not considered good games by the majority of the western market.

 

I am not talking about the western market. We are talking about the quality of the games and if thats what we are doing then you measure there success World Wide.  World Of Warcraft had 15 million and still has over 10 Million. Should we not count that since most of those subs are not NA / EU?

Lineage 2 and Aion are poor quality games by NA/EU standards.  World of Warcraft is not.

You are trying to make Aion and L2 seem better because the asian market has embraced them, but that is completely irrelevant in the west.  And as far as I know, Aion and L2 did NOT go free to play in their main market, only the market where no one really played them anyway.  

If L2 and Aion were so good, how come even when they are free to play people ignore them?

Let me repeat this again. I am talkign about TOTAL SUBS because thats how you measure the success of a mmo. Success in the North, South, East and West. What part of that you dont understand?

Originally posted by Mannish

Let me repeat this again. I am talkign about TOTAL SUBS because thats how you measure the success of a mmo. Success in the North, South, East and West. What part of that you dont understand?

I don't think that is fair, considering the differing methodologies behind what constitutes a 'subscription' over there (active pay-by-hour accounts), nor how widespread the genre and product loyalty is in places like S. Korea.

It's just impossible to compare.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Mannish

Let me repeat this again. I am talkign about TOTAL SUBS because thats how you measure the success of a mmo. Success in the North, South, East and West. What part of that you dont understand?

I don't think that is fair, considering the differing methodologies behind what constitutes a 'subscription' over there (active pay-by-hour accounts), nor how widespread the genre and product loyalty is in places like S. Korea.

It's just impossible to compare.

What I am saying is that you have to count all the places that a game is available when you are looking at the sucess of that game. It does not matter how people are playing it. I dont know and dont really care how they are playing it but I know Lineage 2 and Aion are doing way better then Everquest 2 ever did.

my god .trials have less restrictions than this.what are they thinking...they should make it unlimmited up to lvl 25.apart from chars.2 bag slots.my god the crafting alone will suck that space up

the only thing this game has  going for it is the long suffering community,which i was part of.their greed has not changed.aion,lotro,ddo.take a look .

They have not done this game any favours ,have they?

omg lool, and GW2 is out soon, how dumb are these people. 

/cartoon questionmarks over my head

Rip Vanguard.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

 

 

I totally agree that I would rather play games from companys like Perfect World and G Potata because at least they dont restrict content. I dont see how people play these games where they cant do things like use auction house, world chat, choose any race or class, go to certain zones or areas, wear certain gear or limited to carrying only a small amout of gold or items. LMAO

Name a single piece of CONTENT that is restricted in Vanguard to free to play?

There is a difference between features and content....

 

 

And I see you have no idea what content is. The first things on the Vanguard Matrix are clearly labled CONTENT. Not wasting anymore time talking to you. Just give it up because as you see everybody other then you thinks this is just a total fail.

This is the most underrated mmorpg out there.

It is a more challenging mmorpg then most and has some things I wish newer games had.

Before playing Tera online my current game. I had just started vanguard and would have remained there if not for Tera. Now that it is free-to-play I am truly excited for several reasons.

ALl in game Vanguard mounts besides a bugged xmas mount were temporary/rentals. Now with the conversion to f2p there wil be sold mounts in the shops and to me this changes the accesability of the game to everyone. Considering how insanse getting to some places can be. As said I am glad Vanguard will get this conversion because there are a lot of station all acess users who an now play this on gold with no extra cost.

When I first played Vanguard it was during the announcement of the game going f2p. There were literally 1000s of new players purchasing and playing the game to try it out before the conversion. Once the conversion takes place this will be a great gem for many. I would say the game to me feels most like LOTRO.

ALso to note. Vanguard had one of the greatest communitys I have met. They were people who despite the lack of content added had put years into this adventure. They made me feel at home immediatly.!

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

 

 

I totally agree that I would rather play games from companys like Perfect World and G Potata because at least they dont restrict content. I dont see how people play these games where they cant do things like use auction house, world chat, choose any race or class, go to certain zones or areas, wear certain gear or limited to carrying only a small amout of gold or items. LMAO

Name a single piece of CONTENT that is restricted in Vanguard to free to play?

There is a difference between features and content....

 

 

And I see you have no idea what content is. The first things on the Vanguard Matrix are clearly labled CONTENT. Not wasting anymore time talking to you. Just give it up because as you see everybody other then you thinks this is just a total fail.

I would never consider things like number of races, number of bags and amount of gold you can carry as 'content'.  These are features, regardless of how they are labeled.  Content is actual questing, mob killing, dungeons...what you actually spend your time doing.  Vanguard model does *not* restrict any of that.  Yeah, at 55 with the high end raiding, good luck finding someone willing to take you along, but if you find someone willing you can go.  But then, if you are doing end game content you should be subbing anyway.  And these restrictions will only come into play for raiding, youll be able to group for dungeons and do everything else from 1-55.

FACT: you can enjoy the game perfectly fine and see an insane amount of content as a free to play player in Vanguard.  There is more content a f2p person will be able to enjoy than there is in Aion.

EQ2 is proof enough that the model works.

     This sounds like another SOE fail......I dont mind if you limit it to certain classes and races, but when you restrict almost every single area of gameplay it is not going to work for the majority of us......SOEs f2p games are about as restricted as they come..... I guess SOE is just trying to get as much out of this as they can before it ends up shut down.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Mannish

Let me repeat this again. I am talkign about TOTAL SUBS because thats how you measure the success of a mmo. Success in the North, South, East and West. What part of that you dont understand?

I don't think that is fair, considering the differing methodologies behind what constitutes a 'subscription' over there (active pay-by-hour accounts), nor how widespread the genre and product loyalty is in places like S. Korea.

It's just impossible to compare.

Here is what that guy doesnt understand:

The reason NCSoft is able to do the f2p model for Aion and L2 is because the games were so bad *to the NA/EU audience* that no one really played them anyway.  Yes, the asians like them.  So the asian market can support the NA/EU F2P gamble, and it is a gamble to see if they make more money off f2p + item shop.  Most games could not afford that type of gamble because they arent supported by an asian player base.

Simply put, Aion/L2 model wouldnt work for any game but Aion and L2 (maybe FFXI).  Youll notice that City of Heroes (also NCSoft) uses a f2p system thats based off of the SoE model. 

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Mannish

 

 

I totally agree that I would rather play games from companys like Perfect World and G Potata because at least they dont restrict content. I dont see how people play these games where they cant do things like use auction house, world chat, choose any race or class, go to certain zones or areas, wear certain gear or limited to carrying only a small amout of gold or items. LMAO

Name a single piece of CONTENT that is restricted in Vanguard to free to play?

There is a difference between features and content....

 

 

And I see you have no idea what content is. The first things on the Vanguard Matrix are clearly labled CONTENT. Not wasting anymore time talking to you. Just give it up because as you see everybody other then you thinks this is just a total fail.

I would never consider things like number of races, number of bags and amount of gold you can carry as 'content'.  These are features, regardless of how they are labeled.  Content is actual questing, mob killing, dungeons...what you actually spend your time doing.  Vanguard model does *not* restrict any of that.  Yeah, at 55 with the high end raiding, good luck finding someone willing to take you along, but if you find someone willing you can go.  But then, if you are doing end game content you should be subbing anyway.  And these restrictions will only come into play for raiding, youll be able to group for dungeons and do everything else from 1-55.

FACT: you can enjoy the game perfectly fine and see an insane amount of content as a free to play player in Vanguard.  There is more content a f2p person will be able to enjoy than there is in Aion.

EQ2 is proof enough that the model works.

No, I cant enjoy the game perfectly fine when i have to trash the quest gear because i cant wear them.

No, its not really free to play compare to Aion.

And no, EQ2 model failed hard thats why many complained it.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by nukems

 you think they would have learned from EQ2 

They did.

The model works, regardless of how much posters on MMORPG.com complain about it.

The game right now, in the US, has 8 medium pop (400+) servers and 2 high pop (I think 1000+)

To compare, Rift in the US, shortly after its big 1.9 conquest patch, has 5 medium pop servers (also 400+) and 1 high pop server.  This is around 10 pm eastern.  Rift still has more players overall (it has 10 low pop servers and probably a few of those medium servers like Faeblight would be EQ high pop servers), but still the active player bases are comparable.

In addition, EQ2's community is still solid.  

 

The big difference is EQ2 never stopped introducing new content and expanding the game.  Vanguard has been dead for years, with not even bug fixes let alone content.

Without serious work Vanguard cannot support a full priced subscription model of any kind.  All this "fake" F2P shuffle and jive will do is to expose a dated and flawed game to tens of thousands of new gamers, thereby tarnishing it's reputation even more.

It's too bad - I was really looking forward to an LOTRO type model and coming back to VG.  But pay full price fort he same game everyone left years ago?  SoE really does hold theri customer base in low esteem.

Originally posted by sapheroith

No, I cant enjoy the game perfectly fine when i have to trash the quest gear because i cant wear them.

Psychological issue, not a gameplay issue

No, its not really free to play compare to Aion

There is more content available for free in Vanguard than there is an Aion.  This isnt really debateable, go check out the number of dungeons VG has.  

And no, EQ2 model failed hard thats why many complained it.

EQ2s activity before f2p and after f2p speaks for itself.  Its getting activity comparable to Rift, as posted earlier.  Just because people complain, doesnt mean it failed.   The vast majority of complainers are people that want to play the game for free as if they had a sub, but thats just not going to happen because there has to be an incentive to sub

Originally posted by rakasan

The big difference is EQ2 never stopped introducing new content and expanding the game.  Vanguard has been dead for years, with not even bug fixes let alone content.

Without serious work Vanguard cannot support a full priced subscription model of any kind.  All this "fake" F2P shuffle and jive will do is to expose a dated and flawed game to tens of thousands of new gamers, thereby tarnishing it's reputation even more.

It's too bad - I was really looking forward to an LOTRO type model and coming back to VG.  But pay full price fort he same game everyone left years ago?  SoE really does hold theri customer base in low esteem.

 

 

This is a legit point, although VG is in much better state than it was at launch (when most people left).  When SoE took over and started fixing up VG, it was under 30k already.  When they finally gave up it was much less.  However, most people acknowledge the game is in pretty good shape and light years ahead of the release product.  And SoE expanded the staff (well,   added a staff would be more accurate) for the conversion.  Anyone who didnt play at launch wont run out of content for a very long time, and the plan is to add content if the conversion is successful.  I dont blame people for being skeptical about that.

The game is more dated than flawed at ths point, with some of the most atrocious looking characters ever put onto an MMORPG landscape.  It will be interesting to see how it works out.  If VG can somehow get over 50k subs I could see SoE supporting it more. We will see, its pretty awful timing with one very good (but niche) game released this month already and GW2 on the horizon.

Sony's F2P play model is broken basically you cant interact or get a full game experiance withought shelling out 14.99 a month so what's the point. Time to look for something else unless you just want to waste a few hours.

They removed silver membership in the itnerest of players.

Everything SOE F2P does is try to convert players intoo paying subscribers as fast as possible. In the case of SOE there just isnt any other possibilitie if you truely want to enjoy the game.

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Joy? Lol!!!

By far the worse of $oe free to login offerings. No global chat,restricted to "common" gear,15 quests max,2 bags,25 bank slots,1p max,etc.

You wont even be able to level crafting or diplo with green only gear, and you will need to be carried to level adventuring.

Are you kidding me?NO global chat ,i wish that was in ALL games.The global chat i see in games now a days turns me righjt off,it makes me feel like quitting.

I spent 8 years in FFXI and for the first 4 or so,global chats were EXTREMELY rare.They were also not really global but global as in your whole zone.It was ONLY used well 99% of the time to ask for a certain group or alliance to do some really tough content.

I do not want to see global chat used as an Auction House or people arguing over what game is better or what class is better.

Seriously any vet gamer knows that  NOTHING good comes of global chat,nothing but venting and arguing.

15 quests max,again nothing painful there,i often wish i woudl only do one at a time,i get overwhelmed when i grab 100 and don't finish any.

games need restrictions,nobody is going to throw a gam e out there for yo uto play free,they NEED to create ways to get you to spend.The whole f2p thing does not exist,it is merely a gimmick to hook people in then get them to spend when they would have never stepped into the game if not for the initial f2p status.