Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Aeolron

GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

Very strange.

Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

Very true

Have you ever opened one of those chests? I wonder how they pick people for CB these days

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Aeolron

GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

Very strange.

Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

Very true

So it's untrue that those keys drop from boss mobs, and the chest typically contain uninspired junk?

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Aeolron

GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

Very strange.

Because , I am in CB and I get alot of chests that " Require" a key to open , and redirects me to CS so nice try.

Very true

So it's untrue that those keys drop from boss mobs, and the chest typically contain uninspired junk?

From my beta experince, the key drop rate was horrible. I would rather just buy it from CS then grind for keys.  If keys drop at good rate why even have those in CS to begin with?

Originally posted by GTwander

So it's untrue that those keys drop from boss mobs, and the chest typically contain uninspired junk?

A few keys are available as quest rewards in the Personal Story. The chests contain miniatures, tonics and some boosters nothing essential to play or be competitive in any way imaginable

Miniatures as in chibi pets that follow you around?

Game is officially pay to win.

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by Jabas

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by Jabas
 

 

 

 

Just keep in mind, F2P games are more costly, why the hell would MMO companies like SOE put their games like EQ 1 and 2 , DCUO then Funcom AOE,anarchy, Ncsoft, COH/COV , Aion , Lineage 2 just to name afew, up on the F2P market? Because they know people are suckers for when they see " FREE" and they actualy believe it is " FREE" which is funny, thats a great marketing tactic and works nearly all the time.

These companies do this because they know if they get the odd player to stay in their F2P games that they WILL buy something from the CS or in some way force them there.

The reason why P2P isn't going to hot is because it's this " buy our game for $49.99+$15.00 monthly and you can have complete access to our game" when people see a dollar sign like that it's like " Yeesh what happens if I don't like it" ? Understandable for sure, I bought MMORPGs back in my day and got screwed, but I will always pay to play because in the long run it is cheaper.

F2P Players might not spend a monthly fee, but they WILL spend money in the CS and instead of seeing 15 a month, they see you know 3-5 bucks here and there , and that adds up alot, part of that instant gratification, another thing WoW brought onto the MMORPG world, because in Madden , UO , EQ, haha you had to WORK for it.

The way you put things i agree, but this was the old P2P model.

I dont have problems with EXCLUSIVE P2P model, and on this case i prefer P2P but what we have now in most P2P games around is B2P + P2P + CC, and i think this is to much.

Considering this i prefer F2P games with CC because the game is only expensive for me if i want.

The f2p games that are the worse are ones that nickle and dime you for game features that are a core part of it, takes Phantasy Star Online 2, its f2p.. but.. if you wanna ever trade with another player, your gonna have to pony up 15/month to get that ability, now you can still buy from a players myshop, but without that "subfee" you cannot have your own myshop, or even do a direct char to char trade. They also made mag leveling extremly slow, and of coruse they also sell mag food items that give the mag like 3+ levels per. While the mag thing ain't a big deal, locking trading away behind a cash shop item kinda irks me. Mind you this will hurt the rmt indistry a tad, but then again they sub to games like wow to sell their ingame funds, so in reality it'll prob do nothing except piss the playerbase off.

Originally posted by GTwander

Miniatures as in chibi pets that follow you around?

Game is officially pay to win.

Say one wrong thing about GW2 and all the fanbois come out defending it with honor LOL

Originally posted by Sameer1979

Originally posted by Nebless

Guess what ... It only cost's money if you want it to.

I play LotRO and use the ingame TP I earn to pay for everything.  I've played DDO for a couple of years now and put a wopping $20.00 into it (just in case you don't want to do the math that comes out to .83cents a month).  Haven't put any money into AoC, PotBS or STO and I've had loads of fun in all those games.

Would I still play if they were P2p?  Some of them yes, others no.

Bottom line, if you just have to have that brand new shiney that just came out to make your game play enjoyable .... go for it.  Me?  No thanks.

Not all F2P MMOS work on same basis as LOTRO and DDO but even then best deal is to stick to monthly sub for F2P titles. F2P is just a gimmick and ends up hurting your pocket even more.

Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by Aeolron

GW2 is built on F2P/B2P but still requires you to buy items in that CS as well, and how do you know whats in the GW2 store? You a dev or something??

How can you say it requires you to buy items in the CS, then get argumentative over whether anyone knows whats in the store or not?

Very strange.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

No, I'm not a dev. They tell me what is in the shop.

Originally posted by korent1991

Originally posted by Sameer1979

Originally posted by Nebless

Guess what ... It only cost's money if you want it to.

I play LotRO and use the ingame TP I earn to pay for everything.  I've played DDO for a couple of years now and put a wopping $20.00 into it (just in case you don't want to do the math that comes out to .83cents a month).  Haven't put any money into AoC, PotBS or STO and I've had loads of fun in all those games.

Would I still play if they were P2p?  Some of them yes, others no.

Bottom line, if you just have to have that brand new shiney that just came out to make your game play enjoyable .... go for it.  Me?  No thanks.

Not all F2P MMOS work on same basis as LOTRO and DDO but even then best deal is to stick to monthly sub for F2P titles. F2P is just a gimmick and ends up hurting your pocket even more.

Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

Subscription might be a robbery but how F2P which is nothing more than a glorious free trial is any better? if it is between choosing two evils i will go with the lesser one that is monthly sub.

The day GW2 B2P model takes over the industry, we will see. But as i see in future more and more games will go F2P and get more expensive. Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions. So how does it matter whther a game is F2P or P2P. For players like me the transition makes no difference.

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by Caldrin

You do realise GW2 will make most of its money from micro transactions in its cash shop right?

At least in Guild Wars 2 the Cash Shop isn't essential in order to play, you can avoid buying anything from there and still be competitive, there is no P2W. In other words for lots of people it is going to cost only the box price and nothing more, others can pay some more as they see fit

Dont bet on it...

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by korent1991

Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

Subscription might be a robbery but how F2P which is nothing more than a glorious free trial is any better? if it is between choosing two evils i will go with the lesser one that is monthly sub.

The day GW2 B2P model takes over the industry, we will see. But as i see in future more and more games will go F2P and get more expensive. Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions.

Because it gives players the choice BEFORE they spend their money. Subscription games ask you to put down a high price before you even play the game. They are more expensive than single player, or standard online multiplayer games right out of the box.

With a free 2 play game, you get to try it for free (glorified free trial, w/e), and if the game sucks, you don't have to spend a dime on it. That's a pretty big deal. The incentive there is that (at least in the west), studios need to start putting more effort into their games to turn a profit. It completely puts the ball in the consumer's court. On a f2p model, if you make a crap product, people don't give you a damned thing. In a sub model, if you make a crap product, you can still turn a profit if you market it decently. There's pleanty of examples of both of these. When you can get away w/ fire & forget launches in an MMO, it's a very bad thing for us gamers. F2P is one of the few ways of ensuring that studios can't get away with that.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by korent1991

Hahaha... Wait, and you think subscription is NOT a legal robbery?! It's overpriced and at todays cost of subs 95% is just pure profit after first month or so... And I agree with what Nebless said, if I think the game's not worth the money they're asking me to spend in the cash shop I'm not going to spend that money... simple as that.

I think GW2 model will be the best for the future (ofcoures, if cash shop stays vanity and time convinience ONLY without any real game advantage to those buying stuff of it)...

Subscription might be a robbery but how F2P which is nothing more than a glorious free trial is any better? if it is between choosing two evils i will go with the lesser one that is monthly sub.

The day GW2 B2P model takes over the industry, we will see. But as i see in future more and more games will go F2P and get more expensive. Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions.

Because it gives players the choice BEFORE they spend their money. Subscription games ask you to put down a high price before you even play the game. They are more expensive than single player, or standard online multiplayer games right out of the box.

With a free 2 play game, you get to try it for free (glorified free trial, w/e), and if the game sucks, you don't have to spend a dime on it. That's a pretty big deal. The incentive there is that (at least in the west), studios need to start putting more effort into their games to turn a profit. It completely puts the ball in the consumer's court. On a f2p model, if you make a crap product, people don't give you a damned thing. In a sub model, if you make a crap product, you can still turn a profit if you market it decently. There's pleanty of examples of both of these. When you can get away w/ fire & forget launches in an MMO, it's a very bad thing for us gamers. F2P is one of the few ways of ensuring that studios can't get away with that.

I think when i said F2P is nothing more than a glorious free trial it covered the point of not paying for the client. You just said what i was saying.

My point of view regarding cost is more on the side of 'what is best and smarter choice for consumer' and in my opinion if you want un restricted access to F2P titles, stick to monthly sub. But if you don't mind restriction then F2P is good deal.

If no one payed, these games would be out of business, someone is spending....

I myself prefer sub games, with no cash shop...I like knowing what I am spending, and I do not like the lure/chances of a f2p cash shop becoming a p2w...

Originally posted by Chilliesauce
 Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions. So how does it matter whther a game is F2P or P2P. For players like me the transition makes no difference.

• If you only wanted some extras one month, you paid only for those extras. With sub you still paid full price.
• If didn't play for one month, you paid paid nothing. With sub you still paid full price.
• If you consume less content than other players, you paid nothing or less over time depending on the content. With sub you still paid full price.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Chilliesauce
 Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions. So how does it matter whther a game is F2P or P2P. For players like me the transition makes no difference.

 

• If you only wanted some extras one month, you paid only for those extras. With sub you still paid full price.
• If didn't play for one month, you paid paid nothing. With sub you still paid full price.
• If you consume less content than other players, you paid nothing or less over time depending on the content. With sub you still paid full price.

The difference is in the flexibility and choice that it affords the players. Add in that F2P only works when the free players are playing, so there is an incentive for the dev to keep creating content and upgrading the game for the entire playerbase. As a result, F2P games often have free expansions, more in-game events and giveaways, and regular content updates whereas with subscription the approach by most companies is to treat it like a product, not a service.

You know i can cancel my sub when i don't feel like playing? so i am still paying only for what i am playing and not anythign extra. It takes a click of a finger to cancel the sub. Also, i was saying that the 'transition' makes no difference to players like me who pay monthly sub for unrestricted access to entire game in F2P model. I wasn't talking from point of view of developers.

I know so many players who tried F2P titles and soon realised the restrictive nature of these games and ended up subbing because it is cheaper and more cost effective. The only difference is that now they are called 'gold' members.

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Chilliesauce
 Like others said even in F2P model best thing to do is to pay 12 to 15 bucks a month to access entire game without any restrictions. So how does it matter whther a game is F2P or P2P. For players like me the transition makes no difference.

 

• If you only wanted some extras one month, you paid only for those extras. With sub you still paid full price.
• If didn't play for one month, you paid paid nothing. With sub you still paid full price.
• If you consume less content than other players, you paid nothing or less over time depending on the content. With sub you still paid full price.

The difference is in the flexibility and choice that it affords the players. Add in that F2P only works when the free players are playing, so there is an incentive for the dev to keep creating content and upgrading the game for the entire playerbase. As a result, F2P games often have free expansions, more in-game events and giveaways, and regular content updates whereas with subscription the approach by most companies is to treat it like a product, not a service.

You know i can cancel my sub when i don't feel like playing? so i am still paying only for what i am playing and not anythign extra. It takes a click of a finger to cancel the sub. Also, i was saying that the 'transition' makes no difference to players like me who pay monthly sub for unrestricted access to entire game in F2P model. I wasn't talking from point of view of developers.

I know so many players who tried F2P titles and soon realised the restrictive nature of these games and ended up subbing because it is cheaper and more cost effective. The only difference is that now they are called 'gold' members.

Yes, I know that people can do that. I also know that most people won't. Everyone in marketing knows that most people won't. It's why subscriptions exist, Chillie. Earlier you stated that your point of view regarding cost is more on the side of 'what is best and smarter choice for consumer.' Subscriptions are not the best choice and often are not the smartest choice for any consumer, they are simply the most convenient choice. Subscriptions were created to ensure you pay for next months product/service, whether you use it or not. Subscriptions were created because each time that a person knows they might miss a month of usage, the company still gets their money.

70 bucks for 2 + years of play in LotRO.

70 / 24 = 2.91 dollars a month.

14.99 * 24 = 359.76 total in 2 years time.

Let's go with a less conservative player's expendetures (my wife). In two years times she has spent the same 70 I have (base amount for expansion that opened up complete Fellowship questing to cap and some extras from Isenguard. + 3 20 dollar credit buys. That's 70 + 60 = 130

130 / 24 = 5.41 dollars a month.

F2P isn't expensive. It's practical.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Hurvart

I have self control.

 

...

Just like I am a former heavy smoker. If someone offers me one ciggarett and I say yes and smoke it it will be bad. Because a few days later I will smoke 3packs/day and will not be able to quit again without professional help.

---

 

I do not think you understand what self-control is...

I can say no to things that I know will be very bad for me and it prowes I have willpower. And that I understand myself and my problems. Without that willpower I would probably be dead or in jail.

Regarding smoking I have two options.

1. Smoke like the famous guy in "x-files" that was smoking all the time.

2. Not smoke at all.

Its impossible for me to sometimes smoke at partys or to smoke 5 cig/day.

All habits and activitys work like that for me. And if I play a game with a advantage CS I will spend a lot of money.  Perhaps a fortune. Just like smoking my options are. 1.Buy and use everything that can in any way help me in the CS. 2. Dont play the game.

I think being able to say no when tempted to do something bad is a form of self control.

Anyway its not good for me and people like me if all future games will be F2P with advantage CS. And anyone should be able to understand why I prefer P2P games.

And the companies are in fact exploiting the minority they know will spend crazy money when playing the games. I dont think it is very etical and moral.