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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why Elder Scrolls Online won't work

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72 posts found
  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

7/02/12 1:41:08 AM#41
Originally posted by Connmacart

And to those that keep preaching DOAC. You are not going to get a new DOAC like the SWG fanboys won't get a new SWG. So just drop it and move on instead of being bitter old farts. Or simply start playing DOAC again.

If anything, I'm a bitter old fart over the whole issue here.

The DAoC fans are just a bunch of pot-stirring, dancing monkeys that are enjoying our defeat.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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  Fangrim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 474

7/02/12 1:52:15 AM#42

Its an MMO....NOT a single player game......so what about hoards of people finding stuff.

  KingGator

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 474

7/02/12 2:18:05 AM#43
Originally posted by Connmacart
Originally posted by Po_gg

I wonder why isn't there any mention of Arena... Everyone's started with Daggerfall? :) Arena was a really good game, played it for a few months (true, Daggerfall looked better)

To the topic: I personally don't mind ESO, trying out new things not necessarily bad. (yep, GTwander, i tried FF: Tactics as well :) )  I will try ESO, and if I don't like it, I'll simply leave. It won't change anything in my relationship with Elder Scrolls, so why bother?

(sidenote: FF and FF: Tactics maybe not the perfect example, I think it's more like the C&C series and C&C Renegade, since the core gameplay elements are gonna change, if I red the infos correctly)

Arena wasn't as widely available as daggerfall was when it got released. Yes Daggerfall was my first TES game as well.

C&C series is also a bad example. C&C was an RTS series where Renegade got turned into an FPS, which is a completely different genre. TES games are RPG and turning thatseries into a MMO doesn't remove that. It still falls into the RPG genre. 

And to those that keep preaching DOAC. You are not going to get a new DOAC like the SWG fanboys won't get a new SWG. So just drop it and move on instead of being bitter old farts. Or simply start playing DOAC again.

It sounds like we're going to, which is what has you up in arms apparently.............

  KingGator

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 474

7/02/12 2:21:42 AM#44
[mod edit]
  chryses

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

 
OP  7/02/12 6:19:34 PM#45

This might sound a little pedantic but one of the many things the Elder Scroll series did which I absolutely love are the NPC scripting to make them interactive in different settings.  No more seeing the same person selling armour standing in the same position 24 hours a day. 

Its personally a pet hate of mine in most MMO's and single player games, how the immersion is lost with people just standing around staring into space.  Its like being in the movie, 'bodysnatchers'. 

ES's brings life to the world as people get up and eat breakfast, go to work, have lunch and wander home.  The whole concept of being able to break into their house or shop when they are out is very realistic.

It may not sound that important but all of these immersive affects makes ES what it is. 

I don't want the game to fail, I am not that spiteful, I am just looking at what would make it work and who would play it.  I just feel it will fall between the cracks like SWTOR.  Not good enough to please the ES fans, not good enough to attract new ones.

 

(GW2 has some decent scripting in the cities and I was very pleased to see dialogue and movement of NPC's. Its not so stale!)

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

7/02/12 7:09:42 PM#46
Originally posted by chryses

 I have always been an Elder Scrolls fan dating back to Daggerfall.  Having hammered Skyrim all week, I can't see how the essential ingredients that make the series work, can be transferred into an online format.

1. Elder Scrolls is about exploring vast open landscapes that allows a player to get lost and find hidden dungeons, temples and interesting characters.
Online - I don't believe they can create a massive world with little or no instances.  Exploration doesn't feel right when 25 other players are stomping all over the same temple.

2. Its realistic in the sense that you come across a lone NPC and you stalk them not knowing if they are friend/foe and assisting or just killing them if you wan't.
Online - it will just be another spawn fest with multiple instances as everyone will be lining up to kill the same beast.

3. Its about complex combat, actual targeting and tactics. e.g. mid combat, swapping skills and spells whilst in pause mode. 
Online - Fallen Earth is the closest I have seen to using this in an online format. Its clunky at best. Due to the bandwidth and mass appeal they need to generate, its going to end up auto targeting or a very rudimentary combat system.

I am not trying to flame on this game, but as a massive fan of the series, I can't see how an online version can capture the essence of the single player game.  Just making another 3 faction warfare cookie cutter in the ES world stinks of a quick money grab from box sales.  I know its synical but after SWtOR and a few other releases, its hard not to feel this way for this game IMO, shouldn't be turned into an MMO for so many reasons.

Some games are just not made for the MMO genre and I really feel this is one of them.

1 - this is exactly how older mmos worked, this has been done many times in a mmo, TWO of thoose mmos the devs of TES come from.

2 - depends how big the world is, depends on how many players they let into each world, depends on their kill credit rules

3 -  both standard mmo combat AND tes combat post morrowind with the console orientated UI are cumbersome and unweildly.  I hope they come up with something better.  Something designed for playing on a pc rather than a console would be a start,

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

7/02/12 7:13:23 PM#47
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by KingGator

If the game is good it will make it and the ocean of hate spewed by people who are made becasue its not an fps game, or more to the point skyrim online, isn't going to change that if it happes. I've read some of the things they're doing, and I think if the content is good this game has a shot at success. As I said earlier, the hissy fits being thrown by TES fans alone has me rooting for this game. DAOC was a a great game until TOA. If this turns out to basically be DAOC 2 it will appeal to a certain set of players and those players are going to support it. 

 

I look forward to reading post like "OMG how can this game be succesfful its not skyrim online" ........its gonna make for some highly entertaining reading. Nothing is more amusing than butt hurt fanboys.

The issue isn't that it's not "Skyrim Online", Skyrim is only one of the 5 games from the TES serie. Bethesda has been working on building a very strong  IP and lore since 1994. TESO throws away the vast majority of what made the TES serie what it is today, and not just from a gameplay perspective. TESO is simply an MMORPG using  the TES IP to push itself onto the MMO industry. Call it DAOC 2 if you want, you're just proving the point that TESO is not a TES game. Let Firor make his DAOC 2 and have fun, but if they're sacrificing features for accessibility, just don't come in expecting the game to be DAOC pre-TOA.

some sort of melding of daoc and tes - taking the best of both would actually make a really good mmo imo (not necessarily in the tes universe)

unfortunately it looks like they are entering a wowifictaion phase with talk fo battlegrounds and arena and various other instanced bollox.

  MadnessRealm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/09
Posts: 2705

Ignorance is Bliss.

7/02/12 7:39:34 PM#48
Originally posted by ShakyMo

some sort of melding of daoc and tes - taking the best of both would actually make a really good mmo imo (not necessarily in the tes universe)

unfortunately it looks like they are entering a wowifictaion phase with talk fo battlegrounds and arena and various other instanced bollox.

I actually don't hate the idea of an Arena if it was handled similarly to Oblivion's arena. That's something that I'd find interesting to see an MMO do. You'd have spectators and be able to bet on participants, have the yellow team releasing "3 argonian prisoners" or a bosmer with his magical dagger Shimmerstrike!

I'm just messing around here, but it'd be interesting to see something along those lines in an MMO format (with teams runned preferably by players rather than pre-made factions). I mean, you could have weekly tournaments set at a specific time, and whatnot. Basically just creating a weekly event that can bring players together. It's an activity, not something you grind, but something you'd participate in to prove yourself or simply to watch (could have some bonuses for the champion). Unlike WoW's PvP, you wouldn't be grinding it (because there is nothing to grind), and it doesn't happen often enough (only weekly) to be the only type of PvP that players would partake in. 

 

I don't even know why I wrote all of this...really would like to see an MMO do this though.

------
Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  p_c_sousa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/08
Posts: 627

7/02/12 7:43:49 PM#49
Originally posted by Ryowulf

The mmo will be Elder Scrolls in name only. We have been told this all ready.

Its not Skyrim Multi-player. Its an mmo with Elder Scroll place/faction/etc names

THIS

  chryses

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

 
OP  7/02/12 7:48:18 PM#50
Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Originally posted by ShakyMo

some sort of melding of daoc and tes - taking the best of both would actually make a really good mmo imo (not necessarily in the tes universe)

unfortunately it looks like they are entering a wowifictaion phase with talk fo battlegrounds and arena and various other instanced bollox.

I actually don't hate the idea of an Arena if it was handled similarly to Oblivion's arena. That's something that I'd find interesting to see an MMO do. You'd have spectators and be able to bet on participants, have the yellow team releasing "3 argonian prisoners" or a bosmer with his magical dagger Shimmerstrike!

I'm just messing around here, but it'd be interesting to see something along those lines in an MMO format (with teams runned preferably by players rather than pre-made factions). I mean, you could have weekly tournaments set at a specific time, and whatnot. Basically just creating a weekly event that can bring players together. It's an activity, not something you grind, but something you'd participate in to prove yourself or simply to watch (could have some bonuses for the champion). Unlike WoW's PvP, you wouldn't be grinding it (because there is nothing to grind), and it doesn't happen often enough (only weekly) to be the only type of PvP that players would partake in. 

 

I don't even know why I wrote all of this...really would like to see an MMO do this though.

Like any idea if it was done well then it would be great.  Personally I would like to see the Oblivion format but players pay money to take on another player at the same level.  That way people are losing or gaining cash. Maybe weapons even

  Adamai

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 467

7/03/12 4:44:42 AM#51
The problem guys is not that elder scrolls won't work online !! But because those of you that love elderscrolls only know the wow online format so your imagination is limited to. That kind of format. Wow is a crap mmo! Elderscrolls online would make an awesome sandbox! You need to ditch your whole idea of dungeon running becaus that's what wrecks mmos! Instead think massive player run factions building their own fortresses farming mining cutting wood and crafting all the games items and then a vast and indepth politics created by player run factions !!!! All you have to do is say no more to the hand holding bullshit that npc quest givers have brought to the mmo genre.
  Adamai

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/06/10
Posts: 467

7/03/12 4:52:21 AM#52
When I played skyrim which is the only elderscrolls game I've played my imediate first thoughts as an old school mmo player was wow!! This game would make a fantastic sandbox !! Add charecter customisation ditch all the npc facrtion buulshit and put the players in charge just like eve online! And elderscrolls online would be close to a perfect mmo but !! Judging by all the posts here that won't happen as you all have very narrow minds :) and I'm sorry if that's slightly insulting ! Its more of an informative wakeup call. You guys need to get wow out your heads ! As that's not what an mmo is supposed to be ! Its what they have become hence why all mmos are crap now!
  chryses

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/07
Posts: 1438

 
OP  7/03/12 6:52:19 AM#53
Originally posted by Adamai
When I played skyrim which is the only elderscrolls game I've played my imediate first thoughts as an old school mmo player was wow!! This game would make a fantastic sandbox !! Add charecter customisation ditch all the npc facrtion buulshit and put the players in charge just like eve online! And elderscrolls online would be close to a perfect mmo but !! Judging by all the posts here that won't happen as you all have very narrow minds :) and I'm sorry if that's slightly insulting ! Its more of an informative wakeup call. You guys need to get wow out your heads ! As that's not what an mmo is supposed to be ! Its what they have become hence why all mmos are crap now!

 If they make a sandbox MMO out of Elder Scrolls like EvE Online then I am all for it.  However, I really can't see this being anything more than another hyped up cookie cutter.  If I am wrong and its EvE Online in an ES universe then I would be the first to join.  Do you actually think it will be though?

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

7/03/12 7:05:01 AM#54
Originally posted by Adamai
You need to ditch your whole idea of dungeon running becaus that's what wrecks mmos!

Agreed, but dungeon running is a staple of TES.

Even if Skyrim was your first, you'd have to agree that 85% of all the quest goals sat at the bottom of some dungeon. It's too bad you never played Daggerfall, though. That game literally had like thousands of them. Biggest game world ever, you had to use fast travel because it would take hours/days of walking in one direction to get anywhere. I usually walked from Privateer's Hold (or whatever the start dungeon was called) to the closest city of Chesterwark, just to remind myself how massive the game is, and then use fast travel 100% of the time after that.

In fact, many people think the 'Radiant Quests' of Skyrim are some nuance that's specific to Skyrim, but the fact of the matter is that Daggerfall had it first in the near-infinite amounts of quest goals + dungeons that could be paired together for the many, many, many factions. The only static quests were in the main story.

Nearly two dozen provinces and I spent most of my time in Daggerfall, Wayrest and Sentinel... lol.

I feel like I missed out on a lot to this day.

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  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 493

7/03/12 7:10:25 AM#55

The biggest fail for TESO is the lack of innovating.

They're using all the same tropes we've seen played out since 2004 and I think the base is getting tired of it.

OR if they're not tired of it; why would they leave WoW to play a game that offers the same stuff and a different setting?

I love TES' setting, but they're offering nothing new to the genre so I won't be playing it. Taking their RPG formula and stepping back 3 steps with quest hubs, phasing, and been there / done that mechanics from MMOs of yore.

 

I  hope this game gets pulled before release honestly. It's kind of embrassing seeing this lack of craftsmanship from ZeniMax.

a yo ho ho

  chriswsm

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 388

Never make anything idiot proof as someone will make a better idiot.

7/03/12 6:51:45 PM#56

Its interesting how many crystal balls there are on the MMORPG forums these days

 

Always knowing exactly what will happen and always negative.  I honestly think no one will make a game that the naysayers will like as they are doomed not to like the sound of anything.

 

And as for the No instances  -  They have not said the game will be without instances in fact there will be instances in some quest areas as some of them involve time travel to a past event.  i dont see how that could happen without an instance.

 

Here is my prediction:   The game will make a profit for Zenimax & Bethesda.   They wouldnt bother if they were not confident on that front.   It might go F2P after a while.  It might be pants.  Emphesis on the word MIGHT as my crystal ball needs a good clean.

I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.

Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW

  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 493

7/04/12 1:50:19 PM#57
Originally posted by chriswsm

Its interesting how many crystal balls there are on the MMORPG forums these days

 

Always knowing exactly what will happen and always negative.  I honestly think no one will make a game that the naysayers will like as they are doomed not to like the sound of anything.

 

And as for the No instances  -  They have not said the game will be without instances in fact there will be instances in some quest areas as some of them involve time travel to a past event.  i dont see how that could happen without an instance.

 

Here is my prediction:   The game will make a profit for Zenimax & Bethesda.   They wouldnt bother if they were not confident on that front.   It might go F2P after a while.  It might be pants.  Emphesis on the word MIGHT as my crystal ball needs a good clean.

Crystal ball you say?

Experience I say.

They're offering nothing that WAR, LotRO, or SWTOR hadn't offered before. They're bringing nothing that made Morrowind or any of the later TES games successful.

You can call it predicting the future all you want. I see it as someone repeating the same mistakes other games prior have done already.

Really it's sheer and utter ignorance on ZeniMax's behalf. I'm glad Bethesda's name isn't on this crap product.

a yo ho ho

  KingGator

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 474

7/04/12 1:51:51 PM#58

I have a feeling this game will be a success. I cannot wait for this to occur, the fanboi nerd rage that is going to go down on this board when that happens is going to be delicious. 

  KingGator

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 474

7/04/12 1:53:31 PM#59

They're trying to make an mmorpg. fps combat won't work for mmorpg gamers. The whining about this is so over the top as to be laughable. Combat was the least cool part of TES games, I am glad they didn't try and cut and paste it.

  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 493

7/04/12 1:54:17 PM#60
Originally posted by KingGator

I have a feeling this game will be a success. I cannot wait for this to occur, the fanboi nerd rage that is going to go down on this board when that happens is going to be delicious. 

Well WAR, FFXIV, and SWTOR can be considered successes if you look at it hard enough. I mean they're still around. That's a success.

TESO will fall into that catagory of success. Yes.

It won't be a good Elder Scrolls game tho' sadly.

a yo ho ho

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