Seems like most fps today though have levels and classes and xp gain to unlock items.  I wish for the fps games of old with none of the aforementioned.

I don't see FPS style combat as contradictory with MMORPG gameplay.  However I know of very few examples of games that did this hybrid effectively.  Mortal Online is the closest that I'm aware of.

I agree. Hopefully there will be niche games for people that still wants to play real MMORPG:s. And  indie developers that are good that can create games that are fun.

Linear action games on rails with P2W cash shops could be the future. And it will probably be difficult to stop that even if we write books about how bad the games are...

But maybe the market will grow. And people that are far from mainstream will also be able to find good games. I think that is very possible. And the best option is to learn about smaller titles and indies... For them it is sometimes better to focus on niche markets and offer something not at all like the big popular games.

Just to be clear.  Are you saying that in order for something to be an MMO it cannot have FPS combat, let you choose the skills you want and be b2p/cash shop/f2p?

I said it before in other posts but I'll say it again. Does every MMO games need to be the same? And again, if the "vocal minority" wants a game with those 4 features, does it means that that "vocal minority" wants every MMO games to be like that? I realy think there's room for many different kind of MMO games. 

I'm sorry OP but I don't see why a MMO with those features would necessarely be something like Counterstrike. Planetside used a FPS style and it wasn't an "arena" based FPS. Many games were skill based with no classes (SWG Pre-NGE, EVE, Matrix Online, Ryzom, Anarchy Online, Darkfall...) and there's nothing there like Counterstrike. Even if opinions are splited on that subject, I personaly think that F2P isn't a bad thing as long as it's not P2W, and again, many MMO's uses F2P with cash shop as their revenue and it's nothing like counterstrike. I don't realy see where you're going on this one.

If I close my eyes and use my imagination, I see SWG with planetside combat system and a cash shop and hop, there's all the four features you don't like but it doesn't seems to me like counterstrike.

Originally posted by Alot

 

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Originally posted by KingGator

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Originally posted by SEANMCAD

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Originally posted by KingGator 1.) FPS combat 2.) skill based, no classes 3.) No levels 4.) cash shop b2p preferably f2p   Ummm, this sounds like counter strike online to me. Some of you people need to understgand that MMOS probably aren't for you and the games you want to play are already wildly popular and mostly available, go play them and leave actual mmos to people that want them, the 1-4 scenario i outlined above doesn't even vaguely appeal to me.  I suspect the people in agreement with me are legion.

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1. number 2 and 3 are the same thing. 2. if you have ever played a skill based game you know counter strike comparision is silly. Would it be helpful if one of us broke down what a skill based game is? 3. an RPG can ever every single solitatary without execption feature in it and still be either tab based or FPS. its mostly just a camea angle from a gaming rules perspective. 4. I dont think we are a minority. 5. I personally am not a fan of F2P

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And you may not be a minority, but the game you want is not an mmo. Planetside 2 is waiting for you.

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PlanetSide 2 is an MMO, it just isn't an MMORPG.

^^^^ 

This

My first post in awhile here as I usually onyl read now for entertainment's sake,but the OP is the latest in a long,long,LONG,LOOOOOONG line of posters who can't seperate MMO from MMORPG.MMORPG is the dominate and oldest sub genre granted but not the entirety of the genre.

Originally posted by KingGator

1.) FPS combat

2.) skill based, no classes

3.) No levels

4.) cash shop b2p preferably f2p

 

Ummm, this sounds like counter strike online to me. Some of you people need to understgand that MMOS probably aren't for you and the games you want to play are already wildly popular and mostly available, go play them and leave actual mmos to people that want them, the 1-4 scenario i outlined above doesn't even vaguely appeal to me.  I suspect the people in agreement with me are legion.

OP no offense but your finger is so far away from the pulse that it's not even funny. By all means keep adopting the elder-gamer style but stop pretending that you speak for anyone but yourself. 

Does this subject somehow relate to the Elder Scrolls Online game not being like an Elder Scrolls game?

Originally posted by Quenchster

Does this subject somehow relate to the Elder Scrolls Online game not being like an Elder Scrolls game?

no but if you like we can go that route

Originally posted by KingGator

1.) FPS combat

2.) skill based, no classes

3.) No levels

4.) cash shop b2p preferably f2p

 

Ummm, this sounds like counter strike online to me. Some of you people need to understgand that MMOS probably aren't for you and the games you want to play are already wildly popular and mostly available, go play them and leave actual mmos to people that want them, the 1-4 scenario i outlined above doesn't even vaguely appeal to me.  I suspect the people in agreement with me are legion.

You should always keep your best advise to yourself first.

Originally posted by Quenchster

Does this subject somehow relate to the Elder Scrolls Online game not being like an Elder Scrolls game?

I don't think so.  Possibly this thread about no levels and no classes.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by Quenchster

Does this subject somehow relate to the Elder Scrolls Online game not being like an Elder Scrolls game?

 

I don't think so.  Possibly this thread about no levels and no classes.

I think me thinking others getting 'skill based' and 'skill based' mixed up is more me getting it mixed up.

I was thinking skill based system. not player skill to play.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by Quenchster

Does this subject somehow relate to the Elder Scrolls Online game not being like an Elder Scrolls game?

 

I don't think so.  Possibly this thread about no levels and no classes.

I think me thinking others getting 'skill based' and 'skill based' mixed up is more me getting it mixed up.

I was thinking skill based system. not player skill to play.

I see that often also.  I use "twitch" to indicate eye to hand and reflex coordination aimed combat.

To me "skill based" usually means "use based" skill progression where you stand in a corner casting buffs over and over to raise up the magic skill that governs it.  Also skill based tends to be customizable classes or classless where a build is created based on what skills you use in gameplay.

Saying that "the masses like it" is in no way a good selling point of a product. The masses eat rat hair in their peanut butter, and don't complain. The masses eat ammonia treated beef paste, and don't complain. the masses send their children to testing mills, and think that they are receiving an education. The masses think that the reality and singing/dancing crap that they show on TV is entertainment. The masses are WRONG!

Originally posted by TruthXHurts

Saying that "the masses like it" is in no way a good selling point of a product. The masses eat rat hair in their peanut butter, and don't complain. The masses eat ammonia treated beef paste, and don't complain. the masses send their children to testing mills, and think that they are receiving an education. The masses think that the reality and singing/dancing crap that they show on TV is entertainment. The masses are WRONG!

Don't knock rat hair until you've tried it! YUM!!

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by Quenchster

Does this subject somehow relate to the Elder Scrolls Online game not being like an Elder Scrolls game?

 

I don't think so.  Possibly this thread about no levels and no classes.

I think me thinking others getting 'skill based' and 'skill based' mixed up is more me getting it mixed up.

I was thinking skill based system. not player skill to play.

I see that often also.  I use "twitch" to indicate eye to hand and reflex coordination aimed combat.

To me "skill based" usually means "use based" skill progression where you stand in a corner casting buffs over and over to raise up the magic skill that governs it.  Also skill based tends to be customizable classes or classless where a build is created based on what skills you use in gameplay.

thing is a lot of those 'stand in the corner' problems can be solved in many different ways, not limited to AI that can detect patterns and knock someone offline when they do it.

Originally posted by KingGator

1.) FPS combat

2.) skill based, no classes

3.) No levels

4.) cash shop b2p preferably f2p

 

Ummm, this sounds like counter strike online to me. Some of you people need to understgand that MMOS probably aren't for you and the games you want to play are already wildly popular and mostly available, go play them and leave actual mmos to people that want them, the 1-4 scenario i outlined above doesn't even vaguely appeal to me.  I suspect the people in agreement with me are legion.

Pretty arrogant of you to think you're in any position to define what an MMO is to me.  And judging from your comments, pretty shortsighted too.  If you prefer an endless supply of regurgitated crap, that's fine.  Just don't tell me that your anemic vision is one I should share.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

thing is a lot of those 'stand in the corner' problems can be solved in many different ways, not limited to AI that can detect patterns and knock someone offline when they do it.

I don't know that being knocked offline is the way to go, I much prefer being permanently penalized for trying to "cheat" the system.  Combat skills not only shouldn't become better outside of combat, anyone attempting to use them outside of combat in such a way that it's clear they're trying to cheat the system ought to lose skill points. Cast that combat spell 10x outside of combat and you lose a point of skill.  Keep it up and you lose all your skill points.

I've got nothing against punishing people for being stupid.

Lol i agree with the OP, that wouldnt be an "MMORPG" but that does not mean they cant be an mmo, many different types of mmo's but i prefer rpg's...not that garbage listed...i dont have anything against "Innovation" either but....Theyre doing it wrong! stick with the original level system in classic rpg's with a vast open world and instead of focusing on genre change, focus on making what we already have even better, weak gamer's shouldnt play an rpg if they dont want levels but more so move over to another genre, which isnt to say cant also be mmo. i hope someday we will see a .hack style game for VR, not some carebear garbage.

Originally posted by KingGator

1.) FPS combat

2.) skill based, no classes

3.) No levels

4.) cash shop b2p preferably f2p

 

Ummm, this sounds like counter strike online to me. Some of you people need to understgand that MMOS probably aren't for you and the games you want to play are already wildly popular and mostly available, go play them and leave actual mmos to people that want them, the 1-4 scenario i outlined above doesn't even vaguely appeal to me.  I suspect the people in agreement with me are legion.

1 - No thank you.  If I wanted to play an FPS I would buy a... wait for it... FPS!

2 - Not required.  If the game offered more variety and imagination then the typical tank / healer / dps roles then I might be interested.

3 - Not required either.  There's a lot of things I don't like about the current crop of mmorpg's but levels isn't one of them.  No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

4 - Hell no!  I will gladly pay $15 a month to have access to all the content and not be pestered by cash shops.