...after big companies steal their ideas and make it 100-manned... but not as good, only 1/100th of the time. 

When buying indie games for the first time, I couldn't believe how much better and creative they are than 100 manned mmorpgs. It's the players that make better games, and not developers that have a life outside of gaming. They don't know sqwat. Players made the DotA map and see how popular it is now. When every single company first started they were a few people and they made awesome games. Then business men took over and hype the game with commercials and stuff and people think it's really good, but is it? Maybe it's for the playerbase that hadn't played the first game that wreak so much attention in gaming.

Companies are smart. That's what their job is. To research, steal, hype and act like it's revolutionary.

Not true of just MMORPG's, but kind of like how indie films are often superior to these mega-buck canned big studio productions.  Guess the same thing is happening with gaming.

Been saying this for a while.

Right alongside "non-MMORPGs is where you'll find innovation; stop looking for something new in the exact same place nothing substantially new has happened for the last 10 years."

People say they want new and innovative but are perfectly content saying the same thing over and over again in a forum.

Originally posted by DannyGlover

People say they want new and innovative but are perfectly content saying the same thing over and over again in a forum.

Plus a billion

Almost all the games I've enjoyed recently have been done by small companies (with the exception of Skyrim). For the most part, I'm really tired of playing the same stuff over and over with a different skin.

My game list for the past two months: Skyrim, Blackwell's Asylum, Ryzom, Wakfu, Eve Online, Thief I & II (replaying the greatest games ever made for PC)

I had high hopes for FFXIV at one point, but they've slowly been turning it into every other MMORPG on the market, of which I have zero interest.

Originally posted by hercules
Indie companies always bring out the best ideas.
Roma victor had one of the best ideas in the last ten years but lacked the skills or funds to makd it a reality.

Well I guess that makes an important difference. Ideas are just that. Ideas. I can think of something that can change the world for the good, but once you consider time, resources, and its feasibility, then you will find out that most are unachievable or should be toned down.

Originally posted by hercules
Indie companies always bring out the best ideas.
Roma victor had one of the best ideas in the last ten years but lacked the skills or funds to makd it a reality.

Nah .. Avenger is a great movie. Avatar is a fun movie. The Dark Knight is a great movie. Indie can't do those movies.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by hercules
Indie companies always bring out the best ideas.
Roma victor had one of the best ideas in the last ten years but lacked the skills or funds to makd it a reality.

Nah .. Avenger is a great movie. Avatar is a fun movie. The Dark Knight is a great movie. Indie can't do those movies.

 

whole hype dies and we are back in normal. Indie games are overhyped nowdays. It's like people think they are new thing, fact is that they been there always. There is no new ideas, most are ripped from 90s console games. Thanks to better development tools there is more quality indie games but same time amount of junk games have increased as well.

It's just the way of creativity in all the arts, whether we are talking about music, literature, or game design.  Indies are driven by their passion and creativity. Corps can't produce that. People that work at corps are driven by security and stability. This is not to criticize people, who work at corps. It's just that there are not a lot of corporate artists in the world. If the whole world were artists, we probably wouldn't have a very stable day to day life, either, so there is a place for  everyone.

Back to the topic -- so creativity usually comes from the indies. Then the big corp comes and buys up the hot properties and evenutually they lose their creativity or the original artists depart because they aren't into the corp lifestyle. It goes on that way. So if you want to be at the cutting edge of the arts, you have to put up with bugs or imperfections. 

If you want to see the great bands of the future, they are playing in seedy venues somewhere, now, maybe with crappy sounds systems and not yet discovered. If you want to play the next great game, you might have to put up with the poor object clipping or whatever. 

However, even the big time corps have buggy games now. Or trouble keeping their games stable and online. I think certain big corps (I won't name names) have gone so far to the greed side, that they are now self-destructing. They may have a few more good years, but they are out of creativity and their brand name and goodwill are taking a big hit.

There is always new blood out there and sometimes you just have to be patient and put up with less glossy stuff and look beyond the superficial aspects of you want to enjoy it. 

Its not about creativity or lack of it. The bigger game companies have hundreds of employees and likely hundreds of families depend on the success or failure of its product. With that kind of resposibility you can't do something with a whim and you have to have a damn good reason to do what you do - and some kind of proof that it will work.

A small indie company makes a mistake, its a no biggie. They rise and fall all the time. Their risk is small by comparison. When a big company makes a mistake, it impacts a lot of lives. 38 studios anyone?

Originally posted by 7star

If you want to see the great bands of the future, they are playing in seedy venues somewhere, now, maybe with crappy sounds systems and not yet discovered. If you want to play the next great game, you might have to put up with the poor object clipping or whatever. 

Nice post in general, but this is key to MMORPGs I think.

A lot of MMORPG players say they want different, but they refuse to support different because it rarely starts out as AAA.

They don't seem to understand that they have the market that they themselves have created.

Platforms like Steam are doing a lot to open up the masses to Indie gaming, but it's a slow process to change fashionable 'pro' opinion of the internet.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Its not about creativity or lack of it. The bigger game companies have hundreds of employees and likely hundreds of families depend on the success or failure of its product. With that kind of resposibility you can't do something with a whim and you have to have a damn good reason to do what you do - and some kind of proof that it will work.

A small indie company makes a mistake, its a no biggie. They rise and fall all the time. Their risk is small by comparison. When a big company makes a mistake, it impacts a lot of lives. 38 studios anyone?

Was 38 not an indie company? Albeit one with strong funding.

I also don't think that the people involved in indie dev projects see any failiure as 'no big deal'. The investment indie devs make in their product, both physically and emotionally, is huge.

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Originally posted by Vesavius

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Originally posted by Quirhid Its not about creativity or lack of it. The bigger game companies have hundreds of employees and likely hundreds of families depend on the success or failure of its product. With that kind of resposibility you can't do something with a whim and you have to have a damn good reason to do what you do - and some kind of proof that it will work. A small indie company makes a mistake, its a no biggie. They rise and fall all the time. Their risk is small by comparison. When a big company makes a mistake, it impacts a lot of lives. 38 studios anyone?

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Was 38 not an indie company? Albeit one with strong funding.

I also don't think that the people involved in indie dev projects see any failiure as 'no big deal'. The investment indie devs make in their product, both physically and emotionally, is huge.

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The biggest problems I have with Indie devs are:

Some tend to over hype, over feature, and under produce.  Even if a game does gain a following this way, it only hurts reputation in the end.  If they can't deliver it, don't show it as a feature.  The result may be less hype, but in the end at least it doesn't trash reputation.

Some Indie managers (especially owners) tend to be far less than honest with fans.  Sometimes this is just unforseen problems that derail development, but saying things like it's feature complete and ready to go at any time is obviously a stretch when release comes and large chunks of the game aren't working or incomplete.

Single player games might not have much community interaction, but MMORPGs do.  That needs a community manager and PR spokesperson for interaction.  Not letting community turn into a zoo should be a priority, and that means not only keeping participants in line, but also the community manager and mods.  Unprofessional mods are the worst, and a big killer of reputation.

Even with these three... yes, mid-budget Indies are more likely to produce a niche game that is exceptional.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by hercules
Indie companies always bring out the best ideas.
Roma victor had one of the best ideas in the last ten years but lacked the skills or funds to makd it a reality.

Nah .. Avenger is a great movie. Avatar is a fun movie. The Dark Knight is a great movie. Indie can't do those movies.

 

Those movies will quickly be forgotten, while some indie films are timeless.  Think anyone will care abut "Avengers" in ten years?  They'll be looking for the next mega-bucks eye candy in 3D.

But, some indie films stick in your mind forever.  ("The Last Night at the Alamo", "The Whole Shootin' Match")

Single player games?  Sure.  Plenty of good indie games.

Normal multiplayer / co-op games?  Can also find some good ones.

Lobby multiplayer games?  Yeah. Same as above. Some insanely succesful and indutry defining even (LoL or WoT).

MMORPG?  Aside of EVE I have yet to find any good indie mmorpg. One that would not be ridiculoosely bugged, underdeveloped, understaffed and not providing most of features they promised. + takig ages to add anything new or fix things. Forever alpha state.

One good, succesful indie mmorpg in last 10-15 years?

Hardly a saviour for a genre and future to look for.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Quirhid

Its not about creativity or lack of it. The bigger game companies have hundreds of employees and likely hundreds of families depend on the success or failure of its product. With that kind of resposibility you can't do something with a whim and you have to have a damn good reason to do what you do - and some kind of proof that it will work.

A small indie company makes a mistake, its a no biggie. They rise and fall all the time. Their risk is small by comparison. When a big company makes a mistake, it impacts a lot of lives. 38 studios anyone?

 

Was 38 not an indie company? Albeit one with strong funding.

I also don't think that the people involved in indie dev projects see any failiure as 'no big deal'. The investment indie devs make in their product, both physically and emotionally, is huge.

38 studios had around 300 emplyees. They don't exactly fill the indie qualification even if the company itself is very young. Arenanet started out with 3 guys coding in the kitchen and look where they are now? Same thing with CCP. They are no longer "indie". They have hundreds of employees. They are big companies now.

Compare that to say Taleworlds the developer of Mount & Blade. They started out with 3 guys too as far as I know and they still have less than 20 emplyees. That is indie. But ofcourse the specific limit is more or less arbitrary, isn't it.

If you had 300 families depending on your decisions, would you still be willing to take huge risks based on a hunch? As opposed to making those risks with only you and your life on the line? I don't know about you but I'm happy to take risks if it was only me, but I'd hate to take risks with the chance of ruining othe people's lives. Its different.