This needs updating. Glitch is not on the list.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Pale_Fire
Also, Asheron's Call and Everquest.  I know AC was/is sandbox.

EQ is the first major theme park mmo

LOL that is riduclous. This is why when anyone starts talking about "sandbox" just nod and laugh at them. The majority have no idea.

Originally posted by lifesbrink

This needs updating. Glitch is not on the list.

Glitch in in invite-only closed testing, which goes against the criteria the OP has already stated.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

Originally posted by lifesbrink

This needs updating. Glitch is not on the list.

 

Glitch in in invite-only closed testing, which goes against the criteria the OP has already stated.

It is not in invite only, closed testing, you can sign up and wait for an invite... OR get some one you know playing it to send you an invite.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

You're missing Vanguard.  Unless, I'm blind, which is possible.

Of course, that would make my ability to type this message flawlessly quite remarkable.

vanguard is themepark. not sandbox

Originally posted by tyler10101

Originally posted by dreamscaper

Originally posted by lifesbrink

This needs updating. Glitch is not on the list.

 

Glitch in in invite-only closed testing, which goes against the criteria the OP has already stated.

It is not in invite only, closed testing, you can sign up and wait for an invite... OR get some one you know playing it to send you an invite.

Plus this game has already been released.  They sort of went back into beta, but the game is playable in this state.  I would count it as released.

Glitch is currently in closed beta.

This is directly from the Glitch website at: http://www.glitch.com/join/: "Glitch is in beta and invites will be sent out periodically. It'll probably be a few weeks before you get one (though friends on the inside can send you an invite at any time)."

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Pale_Fire

You're missing Vanguard.  Unless, I'm blind, which is possible.

Of course, that would make my ability to type this message flawlessly quite remarkable.

vanguard is themepark. not sandbox

 

Vanguard is a hybrid MMO just like ArcheAge is a hybrid.Both this games have mamy sandbox features,in fact they have more sandbox features than they do themepark.

Having one or two sandbox features does not make your game a sandbox,  or even a hybrid. I can think of only one or two features of Vanguard at most that would be considered sandboxy, as opposed to clear sandbox games like UO, Eve Online, Wurm Online, etc.

Originally posted by Larsa

Putting them all into the "FFA PvP with full loot" category would make readers think about games like WURM or H&H as PvP-heavy - but they're not. That would be an example of factual information that mis-informs the reader.

Rare PVP or not, in H&H and Darkfall (i think) you can be attacked almost anywhere by anyone and lose everything but your skills. H&H is even permadeath (with ancestry). IIRC Wurm has pvp and non pvp servers.

Originally posted by Vutar

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Pale_Fire
Also, Asheron's Call and Everquest.  I know AC was/is sandbox.

EQ is the first major theme park mmo

 

LOL that is riduclous. This is why when anyone starts talking about "sandbox" just nod and laugh at them. The majority have no idea.

Or, perhaps you lack the understanding maybe?

EQ1 is definitely not a sandbox when compared to the rest of the genre.  Might have been more of a virtual world than today's theme parks, but players could not change the world/direct the game play nearly as much as more sandbox like titles are.

Left off Star Quest Online.  It is the only TRUE space sandbox.   Eve is a space ship theme park.

Originally posted by Hodo

Left off Star Quest Online.  It is the only TRUE space sandbox.   Eve is a space ship theme park.

Thanks for the suggestion, Hodo, I didn't even know the game.

I'll look into Star Quest Online in the coming days and will update the OP accordingly.

• Persistant, mostly non-instanced world
• Player's ability to change aspects of the game world from within the game, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world 
• Open-ended, player driven gameplay

i also agree with this statement as otherwise a game in my opinion wount be counted as a sandbox game

Originally posted by Naqaj

 

... Larsa, have you considered condensing your list of sandbox criteria? It was mentioned earlier in the thread, several of the criteria are merely stating features that are often encountered in sandboxes, but are not neccessarily defining of a sandbox.

 

I would propose to keep the following three higher-level criteria from your list:

 

• Persistant, mostly non-instanced world
• Player's ability to change aspects of the game world from within the game, either by being able to modify the physical game world or by being able to take ownership of structures in the game world 
• Open-ended, player driven gameplay

Everything else in your list is either derivative of one of these factors, or comes through the legacy of RPG mechanics. Any thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that I agree with you. Much of the criteria list is derivative and is not a defining feature but an encountered feature. You are absolutely right in this.

However, I did this for a purpose. If you only have these three high-level criteria it won't take long and a fan of a particular game would come and argue that I should include the game. After all, it's easy to twist words on high-level concepts. But when I break it down to a long list of actual game features it's much easier to just look at the feature list and decide from there whether it gets on the list or not.

I don't claim that my feature list is the correct definition of a Sandbox MMORPG, for me it's just a method to decide whether a game gets on the list or not. :)

I guess it will get messy either way, with a list too restricting you'll have discussions about games left out because of one missing feature.

Still, you have to draw the line somewhere I guess, might as well err on the narrow side. Good luck with your list.

I wanted to be constructive and add one to the list, but all the games I could think of are already on it. Though I have to ask, what about Second Life? Might be a stretch to call it a game, but as a sandbox?

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Originally posted by Naqaj

... I wanted to be constructive and add one to the list, but all the games I could think of are already on it. Though I have to ask, what about Second Life? Might be a stretch to call it a game, but as a sandbox?

---

Thanks, Naqaj. Second Life has been suggested before but ticks too few boxes from that feature list in the OP. :) Here's what I wrote in post No. 80 of this thread:

"I decided to exclude Second Live from the list. It's not an MMORPG, has no character development, no crafting and no resource system. Yes, I know one can make stuff in that game, but the stuff isn't made out of in-game resources but pure "Photoshop" work, they seem to have their own editor. The company running the world annex chat-room doesn't call it an MMORPG too."

Please correct me if I'm wrong with that. I didn't play Second Life and only read their feature list and forums.

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet (it's not on the list and I only read the 1st page), but Glitch would be considered a sandbox.

Updated the OP.

• Added StarQuest Online to the game list. Please check whether the information provided is correct, especially the information about payment model and cash-shop, the game's website isn't very clear about this. I didn't play the game but from the feature list and forum discussions the game fits the criteria outlined in the OP.

Originally posted by Larsa

Updated the OP.

• Added StarQuest Online to the game list. Please check whether the information provided is correct, especially the information about payment model and cash-shop, the game's website isn't very clear about this. I didn't play the game but from the feature list and forum discussions the game fits the criteria outlined in the OP.

@Draron: Thanks. Glitch has been suggested before but is currently in closed beta testing. I list games that are playable by the general public, thus I list released games and games in open testing. I will happily put Glitch on the list once it's released or goes to open beta.

SQO, looks about right.   Payment model is 9.99USD per month, there are discounts for multi-month payments. (24.99 for 3mo).   There is no current cash shop, it did have one at one point but they dropped it when the developers changed.   The games development is in a state of flux but it is still a good game worth checking out if you want a sandbox game where you are not the ship.