I am so trying to understand if most of you who are making these remarks on both games even played the betas for them. First and formost. Most of you should not and i repeat should not even invest in buying TSW it will be free very soon in my opinion. While playing beta they showed me that Funcom does not expect this game to stay P2P at all for long period. Why do i say this?  Well for any gamer who has played alot of MMOs they can tell you that F2P games always make their biggest money by the Item Store. Funcom has built a store within this game at the beginning which only leads to the fact that they would not have a problem turning this game from P2P to F2P faster than it took them to do the same to Age of Conan. Turning a game from P2P to F2P cost money and if they have to take the servers down then they will loose money. Seriously though I believe that anyone who put their money and back up Funcom at this time will only get screwed out of the money they invested. Guys you do have to remember that also Funcom have made this game spec strict. Their overall system spec is harsh on most computers and very limited. If you don't believe me look at the specs for AoC and compare it to TSW. A game that allows any people to play and only have two servers up is not a game i would even invest my money in and that is the amount TSW had just a few days ago. Anyone who has played AoC and played TSW would know one of Funcom biggest mistakes, they like to pull people in for the scenery. Scenery is not what keep player, it is something that brings players but not keep them there.

As for GW2 i played this and i must admit they did one hellva job with this game. Not only do players have their own story but they also have WvW, regular pvp, and when i played the event yesterday it was Corrupted players (ones who get killed by a player who gotten corrupted) vs uncorrupted players. And I haven't even touched on the fact that you don't have to pick up annoying quest you just run to the area and a quest will open up. I seriously doubt that anyone will be able to do all that this game has to offer. Besides that the scenery for this game is very crisp even on low settings (while beta testing this game on my laptop instead of my desktop) I noticed this game still looked very nice on low settings and runs very good. Besides that NCSoft did not change their model for GW series. The game in itself has always been B2P.

Well i must say after talking about those two i will say this even if GW2 don't rip people from playing TSW we do have the next game that will come up ( and pardon me for saying this but Neverwinter will be releasing soon too guys). And any one who has played a Perfect World game knows this company does not play when it comes to putting out games that are fun. And they are using STO (Cryptic) engine for this game which looks great.

All in all i will just like to close by saying that I do believe that the TSW is at a Bad Launch and it is probably not due to any other games. It most likely from the fact that Funcom is in charge of this game. Funcom + MMO= bad deal.

I don't think so.

GW2 doesn't effect everyone.  Me for example.

Well GW2 released by the end of summer sooo.... nothing left to do (when at home) except playing TSW... So its pretty much a good timing :) Will keep me busy for 2 month waiting for GW2

Id say the launch timing is bad, but not because of GW2, but because the game simply isnt ready yet. They need to go fix the combat animations and amaze players from the start, not use the mediocre animations that they have right now.

Originally posted by Piiritus

Originally posted by Drachonis

My 2 cents are as follows. I hated Guild Wars, and really am not interested in the second one. If however I find TSW lacking in two months... I really don't care because I have to go back to grad school anyway which is more of a time sink than any mmo, especially in the sciences (read as "research"). So I think I'll stick with TSW, till all my time is eaten up. I agree with a lot of the posters who said “why not play both,” you’re not really losing out on anything.  TSW and GW2 are very different games, why not enjoy both?

Now the voice of Wisdom speaks here. Personally I'd like to have 5-6 good Western MMOs on the market, including TSW and GW2 just to have some choices after long years of pure garbage. OP just hates TSW and been bashing it for weeks. Champions of a certain MMO like OP cannot accept the idea of many MMOs but he's entitled to his own opinion.

What MMO do I champion? the only MMO I played in the last month was TSW in open and closed beta, hence my posting. I'm not even sure I will pick up GW2.  The reason for the topic was I noticed GW2 is popular, via forums and preorder sales, so I mention it as a threat.

Now if a game came out with ninja gaiden gameplay for melee and like call of duty game play for ranged mages and archers or even guns.  Then it had like graphics of crysis 2 on PC.  It had a cool setting like fallout 2, or demon souls, or some strange planet we crashed on after earth blew up, with lots of quest and options like dues ex 1 for PvE.  With PvP like counter strike, unreal tourny, starcraft, tekken, and other good games, but was a good and fun so could replay it like those. Then raiding would be brutally hard or easy per the guild's choice and well done with as many things to kill as everquest 1.

That is the only MMO I would champion.

I had intended to get GW2 for the W v W v W pvp, but, since the PVP in TSW looks better, more people and more combat options etc, i pretty much ruled out the whole GW2 thing, though not because of the cost as whether a game is P2P or B2P was never going to be a factor that would affect whether or not to buy either game, though despite the fact i've ruled out buying GW2  i also decided not to buy TSW initially - im half expecting launch wobbles to be honest, so if everything is okay a month or 2 after launch, and the whole subs thing is resolved in a way that i can accept, then i'll be buying TSW,  but not GW2, i don't have time to mess around with different games, so it was always going to be one or the other, oddly enough the one thing that ended up being the deciding factor,  in addition to the 'larger scale' pvp combat in TSW than GW2, was that TSW is a more modern setting, fantasy orientated games, swords and sorcery etc, are getting a bit boring, not the games themselves being boring, just the whole fantasy thing itself being less of a draw than it used to be.  Then there was the whole PVE thing, in GW2 its pretty much the same as all the others, its just how its 'applied' thats a bit different, just not different enough, which was why for me at least, the pve side of GW2 was always going to be a negative aspect to the game, the draw in GW2 was always the W v W v W pvp, and once that was superceded by another game, there was no longer a reason to buy GW2,  TSW though promises to have PVE aspects that are actually interesting, challenging and maybe a reason to play the game without consideration of the PVP aspects, which for me meant that TSW is a more 'rounded' game than GW2..  but its horses for courses, so i don't really expect that many others to choose games in the same way i do, or for the same/similar reasons..

Originally posted by Kabaal

There's nothing wrong with it's timing. The only other game to have released recently is TOR and the shininess hasdulled to rust on that one for most, TSW has the summer to gather a starting fanbase without any competition from MMO's and very little from the single player market. If anything GW2 has picked the worst time of the two, slap bang when people go back to school and right at the start of the blockbuster single player games release season.

No i won't be playing TSW and yes i will be GW2, neither has anything to do with timing though.

Well said. I saw a lot of overall game improvements from BWEs 1 & 2 to BWE 4. I still don't think it's ready for release as a subcription MMO but a large amount of CB testers are pleased with the game, saying that the latest build is much more polished and deeper than the builds that OB testers experienced. I feel that when CB testers have a largely unsatisfying experience then a game it tends to be anything but ready for release. That also means that people like me are most likely wrong about TSW's readiness.

So yeah, if the CB testers are to be believed then the timing is good because the game is complete. And for the reasons Kabaal noted, their timing is also good when it comes to the release date. 

Originally posted by kage71

I am so trying to understand if most of you who are making these remarks on both games even played the betas for them. First and formost. Most of you should not and i repeat should not even invest in buying TSW it will be free very soon in my opinion. While playing beta they showed me that Funcom does not expect this game to stay P2P at all for long period. Why do i say this?  Well for any gamer who has played alot of MMOs they can tell you that F2P games always make their biggest money by the Item Store. Funcom has built a store within this game at the beginning which only leads to the fact that they would not have a problem turning this game from P2P to F2P faster than it took them to do the same to Age of Conan. Turning a game from P2P to F2P cost money and if they have to take the servers down then they will loose money. Seriously though I believe that anyone who put their money and back up Funcom at this time will only get screwed out of the money they invested. Guys you do have to remember that also Funcom have made this game spec strict. Their overall system spec is harsh on most computers and very limited. If you don't believe me look at the specs for AoC and compare it to TSW. A game that allows any people to play and only have two servers up is not a game i would even invest my money in and that is the amount TSW had just a few days ago. Anyone who has played AoC and played TSW would know one of Funcom biggest mistakes, they like to pull people in for the scenery. Scenery is not what keep player, it is something that brings players but not keep them there.

 

First: It does not cost them money to change from P2P to F2P, because they aren't changing the format of the game. Most games that you consider F2P, are not.  They are just glorified trials.  The F2P part is restricted access, and you still have to pay to get access to the full game play.  AoC still has a subscription for those that want full access.

Second: How is the number of servers available in beta, in any way, related to the quality of the game?  That is a ridiculous comment.  Especially since TSW is using  single-server technology.  That wasn't two servers, it was two dimensions on the same server. Two dimensions, or twenty dimensions, they would still be running on the same server.  Dimensions are just for convenience, and persistent PvP. They have nothing to do with server load.

I dont see how GW2 and TSW affect each other negatively.

Different setting, graphics, content focus, character progression, payment method and all around feel/style/gameplay.

Terrible release timing.  Couldn't be worse really.

I don't think release dates are really that important when talking about GW2 and TSW for various reasons.

1)  If TSW is a good game (it seems like it is to me), and if GW2 is a good game (I know it is), then both games should do well.

2)  The whole one has sub the other doesn't thing

3)  Both seem to have a lot to offer - the cool thing is that each one seems to offer something that's different from the other.

Honestly the reason I'm not going to play both is that TSW has a sub and I don't do subs.  If it was B2P, I would definitely be playing it.  There is room for both for sure.

I piss on GW2. This is an over-hyped game for kids that is far too much WOW-like. Also the audience for the two games will be completely different.

Average ages:

GW2: 12                                   TSW: 30

=>  TSW for me!

TSW shouldn't have any issues with GW2, GW2 is a fairly casual game with a good deal to offer in regards to PvP. Best part being that it's B2P, thus you aren't guilted into playing it because you paid a monthly fee. Personally I am picking up GW2 to enjoy something on the side when I am not raiding in SWTOR or doing anything with friends in it.

As for TSW I am fairly iffy about it, it will probably end up a niche MMO with a certain crowd that is into the theme. During the betas I was fairly unimpressed with the combat system as it felt like i just hammering away the same abilities like any other MMO. One thing that stood out though was that it distastefully reminded of Age of Conan for some reason though which wasn't all that great.

The thing that urked me though was that I had to put points into a tree that I had little to no use for just so I get better abilities for my damage spec (Shotgun). It essentially felt like a time sink to get better skills. The abilties were essentially the same as well in regards to damage for the support tree in shotgun as well, which was the one I needed to level. The hell would I need group abilities for when I am playing solo? Why can't I level up the group tree when I have the need to? Just things like that in the game that overall urked me to the point of saying no to it. Was pleasant change though to see something new and if they eventually improve the combat and skill system I'll consider trying it out again.

I will play both. In the end.. maybe one or none of them. It's as simple as that. I love TSW right now though. Played way too much on CB servers.

Originally posted by rav500

I piss on GW2. This is an over-hyped game for kids that is far too much WOW-like. Also the audience for the two games will be completely different.

Average ages:

GW2: 12                                   TSW: 30

=>  TSW for me!

In the words of my abandoned SWTOR jedi shadow "have you lost your mind"? Everyone who plays video games know that every single 12-16 year old video gamer ONLY plays MA, 18+ rated vdeo games. Call of duty, age of conan, halo. Is every single one. TSW is rated MA or 18+? so there you go. In other words, guild wars 2 won't be cool for that age group.

There was a study of MMO  demographics and age 30 was the average age of warcraft players,the T for teen or 12+ rating must keep the adolescents away. http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/22/the-wow-factor-page-2/

I think it is pretty good launch timing really. They are getting in before the other major MMO's come out this year. People will buy the game out of boredom while waiting for the others to come out. This may be the best time the game could have launched all year.

Well the bad launch date works both ways like for example maybe someone from A-Net played TSW and said we better make some quick changes to make this game more fun or something along these lines. For example if a MMORPG isn't doing well they could delay the launch and try for a bigger launch to get more people to buy it, or they could launch early and try to get more money therefore competition with another company it really just depends.

I think that GW2, and TSW are two different games however, and I believe that TSW will end up in the future going completely Free 2 Play there is a chance of that look at funcom with Age OF Conan, and BloodLines champions, even AO which is a very old game they are all F2P, so my guess is that they are going to try going for subscription for now and down the road they will switch out to LifeTime subs, and then F2P, and Lifetime subs will get some type of bonus or something I have no clue.

The only acception is if TSW has a very unqiue story line, although I give TSW a thumbs up compared to Fallen Earth because I played FE for months and G1 just didn't know what they are doing.

I believe though that GW2 will be more around PVP compared to TSW.

If TSW eneds up being similar to DreamFall in a lot of ways then it could actually do well, DreamFall was actually a decent game for a singleplayer RPG it is too bad there wasn't a part 2 to the game. * I know that the Intro movei to TSW was actually pretty damn good in my opinion I hope that the game itself has more of a main story I didn't play that much in beta to find out, but some MMORPG's after awhile it starts out with a decent story and like goes into a bunch of side quests which completely after hours of seeing not cutscene or epic RP makes you feel like you are just there to kill things.

Originally posted by tares

Originally posted by rav500

I piss on GW2. This is an over-hyped game for kids that is far too much WOW-like. Also the audience for the two games will be completely different.

Average ages:

GW2: 12                                   TSW: 30

=>  TSW for me!

In the words of my abandoned SWTOR jedi shadow "have you lost your mind"? Everyone who plays video games know that every single 12-16 year old video gamer ONLY plays MA, 18+ rated vdeo games. Call of duty, age of conan, halo. Is every single one. TSW is rated MA or 18+? so there you go. In other words, guild wars 2 won't be cool for that age group.

There was a study of MMO  demographics and age 30 was the average age of warcraft players,the T for teen or 12+ rating must keep the adolescents away. http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/22/the-wow-factor-page-2/

While this is probably true, no <16YO I know will have the patience for TSW. I tried storming off to the "endgame," and all I can say is good luck with that. If you are <16 you will /ragequit before you get to Egypt :) So will a lot of older ppl. I'm happy with that :)

Originally posted by tares

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

And i should care about GW2 because?

Also, tares, explain to me why i should give a flying fu** about the sucess of a game. Do i get money fro it? Nope. So, i do have to care about GW2 overshadowing TSW. I know it will, but point is?

If you care about game Y then you are tied to the success of game Y.  MMOs are still a special case but now with post launch DLC PvE mission packs or PvP maps it isn't as much.  It still holds true for all games though, MMOs just have more patches to fix stuff or add content than other games.

If there is a competing game and it takes players away from game Y, then future development suffers.  If anything goes wrong then players leave and the same is true.

Here is a good stat you can look up,  Age of Conan didn't go so well and has less than 40 developers, World of warcraft did very well and has over 900 developers. 

There are many games I wish became hits or at least kept enough players so developers would be able to keep developing for the game.

TSW is an MMO, MMOs are all about tons of content and players racing through it, the more players the more developers to produce content, which in turn keeps more players. So even more of a special case.

I don't understand. What does TSW's sucess have to with me? I'll buy the game. play it for 3 months and drop it. Not because of GW2 (which i'll do the same with), but because it's a themepark. These games don't provide more than a few months of game time before getting boring, repetative and dry out.

However, considerig the comparision to single players, i'll get my money's worth out of this game. If in the future TSW gets lots of new content, i'll sub back and enjoy that. So, again, why would i care?

looking foward to the big serge of players into TSW in 3 months then when all these GW2 fanboys get bored with GW2 after a month and go play TSW.