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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Why the Combat is Poorly Designed (With Video Included)

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306 posts found
  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

6/27/12 11:54:47 PM#221

You could tell just by playing beta weekends that the combat system is definitely one of the games glaring weak points.I was more interested in the mobs,atmosphere and theme than anything with this game.

  simmihi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 514

6/27/12 11:55:46 PM#222
Originally posted by Talonsin
Originally posted by simmihi

We "fanboys" played it also. And we love it as it was. It is different and better for most of us. That's the whole deal. There are thousands of games with the same WoW-ish gameplay out there, all aimed to people who want 15 keys combat. This is different. Combat is different, situational, specialized, the complexity comes from the options you have, not from the numbers of keys you can correctly press per second.

 

The fact that you did not enjoy it 15 minutes after you started to beta test and that you feel combat is "all you are going to do" in TSW, the fact that the game didn't call for you to get into it to learn more abilities to create different decks to use different skills etc makes it not a game for you. I really appreciate the video and the initial poster, he put effort into it but his opinion is very subjective. All he has proven is that he feels the game is not rewarding or challenging enough for him. Let me boost to max level, get the latest Arena gear in WoW and go into battlegrounds with naked people. Bet i can kill everyone using 2 buttons.

 

If they mainstream this title too and make it play like every other MMO out there, a lot more people will be dissapointed.

I didnt realize you had spyware on my computer and tracked my gameplay time.  You totally busted me having only played for 15 minutes, thinking PvP was all the game was about and realizing I never touched a deck or even knew what one was.  I sure am glad you were able to access my comuter and read my mind to get all that information and didnt just make it up to justify your position. 

 

No one is saying the game sucks, no one is saying make it like WoW.  You can keep spouting that crap for several more pages but most people with an IQ over 70 can read enough to see the OP just has an issue with the combat.  If you feel the combat is the best in any MMO then say it and load up some video to back your position.  Make a valid arguement.  You fanbois saying he only fought newbies with no gear are just making more assumptions.  Why dont you fanbois put your money where your mouth is and setup a day/time to meetup with the OP and prove his point is weak?  Let the OP video himself owning you or you owning him.  Anything else is just words that dont mean a thing.  But if it makes you feel better, post more assumptions about how I really only played for 5 minutes and I want the graphics changed to cartoony WoW style graphics.  I'm sure it will make you feel better.

Re-read your post, it's you that said you were only spamming 2 abilities and thought that "if that's all i'm gonna do", it's bad, and that you are willing to leave the game for a MMO which let you down but has good combat. I was just rephrasing. And no, i do not want to "meet up" with OP and show him who's boss. I'm not a kid anymore. I did not say anything about graphics, you're obviously exaggerating.

 

It's simple: if combat it's only what you care about, and you don't like it because it's not like in WoW or GW2, then this game is not for you, leave, that's the solution (LE: see the post below, exactly what i'm talking about). The game is not broke because someone runs around with top tier gear and full wheel, in an edited video, killing everyone in 3 shots and claiming they were all top tier players. The game is what it is, and changing it to be more like whatever other boring progression leet filled with garbage e-peen kids who ask for item level to do an instance or PvP won't do it any good. Most of us are here because we do not like that behavior, there's like every other game out there catering for you guys, why ruin this one.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/28/12 12:07:13 AM#223
Originally posted by TalulaRose

WoW = complex......that was by far the best joke I have seen on these forums. I played the game for years and all you needed to know was don't stand in the red circle of death. And that was challenging for many. Or they were just too bored and weren't paying attention due to the simplicity of the game.

 

And yet, WoW is more complex. I'm sure you went to elitist jerks and simcraft to work out your best WoW builds, but some people had to do the maths to work those out, and continue working them out as patches and expansions altered the metagame over the years. The maths behind TSW is much simpler than for WoW.

TSW - because it limits the number of active abilities to 7 - is actually very basic and very limited compared to WoW or GW2. That's just mathematical fact. If you take the WoW metagame, but only allow people to slot 7 skills, the simcraft rotations would be recalculated, and you would end up with some very tight, very basic little specs.

GW2's metagame is esports all the way. It's much more complex than both because they of their condition/boon and traits systems and due to the way classes can interact to create synergies in teamplay.

TSW does not have any classes, so once you find the optimal build for everyone you can create your own synergies.

With only 4 total debuff types (which also encompass CC) you don't need teamplay synergies at all, you can just create them yourself. Not to mention, if you notice how the TSW debuffs work on unit frames, you would realise that the interaction of different players on one target does not allow for anything more than 1 synergy per debuff type.

TSW is basic and limited. It disguises this by turning basic talent trees into a fancy looking wheel that make it seem like you have hundreds of abilities, when really all you have is 7 per role, with a lot of fluff thrown in.

In TSW you only need to know 2 things:

What is your level: QLx where x is your effective level

What is your spec: 7/7

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 984

6/28/12 12:16:28 AM#224
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

Of the quick people is back. Now you are saying that again. Honestly, you seem to hate TSW so much it makes me wonder why do you linger in these forums all the time? Go to WoW or it's clone GW2 with your epeen where all other l33tkidz are. As much as I despise those 2 games I don't spend my time bashing them 24/7.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/28/12 12:55:32 AM#225
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

Of the quick people is back. Now you are saying that again. Honestly, you seem to hate TSW so much it makes me wonder why do you linger in these forums all the time? Go to WoW or it's clone GW2 with your epeen where all other l33tkidz are. As much as I despise those 2 games I don't spend my time bashing them 24/7.

 

Well I stopped playing Tera and will be playing TSW tomorrow, so why should I not be on this forum?

Just because I'm not a fanboy doesn't mean I won't play the game. I just play with an open, critical eye, rather than mindlessly adoring and flag-waving.

It's ok to be critical about the game you play, necessary even for the health of the game.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 984

6/28/12 1:01:49 AM#226
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

Of the quick people is back. Now you are saying that again. Honestly, you seem to hate TSW so much it makes me wonder why do you linger in these forums all the time? Go to WoW or it's clone GW2 with your epeen where all other l33tkidz are. As much as I despise those 2 games I don't spend my time bashing them 24/7.

 

Well I stopped playing Tera and will be playing TSW tomorrow, so why should I not be on this forum?

Just because I'm not a mindless fanboy doesn't mean I won't play the game. I just play with an open, critical eye, rather than mindlessly adoring and flag-waving.

It's ok to be critical about the game you play, necessary even for the health of the game.

Yet you are saying that everyone not agreeing with you is slow, doing everything wrong etc. One does not have to be a "mindless fanboy" to get tired of mindless bashing and labeling.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/28/12 1:03:58 AM#227
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

Of the quick people is back. Now you are saying that again. Honestly, you seem to hate TSW so much it makes me wonder why do you linger in these forums all the time? Go to WoW or it's clone GW2 with your epeen where all other l33tkidz are. As much as I despise those 2 games I don't spend my time bashing them 24/7.

 

Well I stopped playing Tera and will be playing TSW tomorrow, so why should I not be on this forum?

Just because I'm not a mindless fanboy doesn't mean I won't play the game. I just play with an open, critical eye, rather than mindlessly adoring and flag-waving.

It's ok to be critical about the game you play, necessary even for the health of the game.

Yet you are saying that everyone not agreeing with you is slow, doing everything wrong etc. One does not have to be a "mindless fanboy" to get tired of mindless bashing and labeling.

tbh people who don't understand how the ability trees, stats and level system in TSW work are being slow, it's really not complicated. I'm not saying they are mentally deficient or anything, just that they are not thinking things through.

The best analogy I can think of is people not splitting up a restaurant dinner bill because they think it's too complicated or can't be bothered to divide by 4.

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

6/28/12 1:08:53 AM#228
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

tbh people who don't understand how the ability trees, stats and level system in TSW work are being slow, it's really not complicated. I'm not saying they are mentally deficient or anything, just that they are not thinking things through.

The best analogy I can think of is people not splitting up a restaurant dinner bill because they think it's too complicated or can't be bothered to divide by 4.

Most people, myself included, aren't "not understanding" the combat. We're "not liking it".

The game might chiefly be about questing, but combat is what 90% of players do 90% of the time when they're not questing, and at least half the quests involve combat to some extent, even if its dealing with agro while running to your destination.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

6/28/12 1:12:03 AM#229
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

Yet you are saying that everyone not agreeing with you is slow, doing everything wrong etc. One does not have to be a "mindless fanboy" to get tired of mindless bashing and labeling.

Where the hell do you read that? It really sounds like you are inferring what you want.

All he's saying is poker = more complex than TSW. Which I would absolutely agree. Watch a game of professional poker. There's not only a lot of math involved, but there's an entirely 2ndary layer of psychology built on top of this.

Hell, I'm not a 'great' poker player, but I've managed to beat pretty good players by figuring out their playerstyle, and what the weaknesses / strengths of that are. I.E. I managed to win a game w/ some other devs, because I knew they were playing a purely logical game. So I spent a lot of the game playing illogically / chaoticly, and they had no clue how to handle that.

Every match I've encountered so far in TSW, I've pretty much known the outcome before it even started. 'Count number of enemies', 'Look at enemy's health, look at his weapons', all that's left is to press the buttons. I can't say this at all about any poker game I've ever played.

  moreblahblah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 61

6/28/12 1:18:04 AM#230
Originally posted by Krytycal

 

I had some discussions yesterday regarding the combat in TSW, so I decided to throw a video together with some footage I got last night to help illustrate my point to the more visually oriented folks. Keep in mind that this video was shot after the NDA was lifted. No broken or perceived as broken abilities (i.e. Explosive Expert) were used during this video. I tried to focus on the more even fights (lots of 1vs1s, 1vs2s and some 1vs3s) since it’s hard to get a good idea of how the combat works in more chaotic zerg vs zerg fights.  Most of the opponents I’m fighting are CB testers with QL10 FATE gear (4k+ HP). I’m wearing QL10 greens as well.
 
 
I know the video is boring. I’m mindlessly smashing 2 buttons the entire time, and I facerolled everyone doing it.  I did this intentionally to illustrate why I think the combat is poorly designed and why it favors boring, repetitive gameplay. Here are the biggest offenders:
 
Superfluous abilities:  The majority of attacks (i.e. resource builders and spenders) feel like they’ve been copied and pasted. Heck, even a lot of the animations are identical. The minuscule differences between them don’t have a big enough impact to warrant using more than one of each. For example, once you have a decent synergy with a builder and a ST/AOE spender, you’re pretty much set to faceroll your way through 99% of the content in the game, including PvP, by smashing 2-3 buttons ad nauseum. If you played SWTOR, I have two words that describe this perfectly: TRACER MERC. Every build I’ve tried in two months’ worth of testing feels like a tracer merc, hitting the same 2-3 button over and over again. Every once in a while I’d throw in a different ability, mostly because I got bored though, it’s not actually necessary. So what’s stopping me from using my other slots to build an engaging rotation you ask? Well, continue reading.
 
Ability Cap: Or how TSW rewards you for using boring rotations. Here’s the thing most people don’t realize yet: due to the homogenization of attacks, passive abilities have a bigger impact on your DPS (and healing to some extent) than the attacks you use. You might think I’m bullshitting you. After all how could that be true when abilities like Thor’s Hammer hit so hard? Well, it’s actually not that good. People who have done the math will tell you that you’re actually better off just using a rotation like the one shown in the video (i.e. frantically spamming two buttons over and over). You can accomplish this with pretty much any two attacks if you know what you’re doing. Mine’s actually not even that good compared to some other mindless rotations I’ve seen, but I’m a sucker for Chaos and punching people in the face. I guess I’m glad the animations are identical in this case.
 
How does TSW reward you for this? Having the attacks not make much of a difference forces you to limit the number of attacks you have. Since the majority of them are more or less the same, you’ll do just as good with only 2 or 3 compared to someone packing 3 consumers and 4 spenders. In addition, you’ll have 4 slots where you can put things that actually make a difference like defensive CDs, damage buffs and CC. The problem with this is that those useful abilities generally have long cooldowns (5 out of 7 of my abilities have 45sec CDs), which leads to mashing the same 2-3 buttons 90% of the time. One way to fix this would be to raise the cap to 10 abilities. Were that the case, I can see myself including at least 2 new attacks to my rotation, since the numbers of additional active buffs and CCs I can have is already limited by the weapons I have equipped. While hardly game-changing, adding two more bread-and-butter attacks could go a long way in keeping me awake, and might even provide a slight improvement, but with a limit of 7 active abilities? No way Jose. There’s better stuff to consider. The other (and most likely to happen) way to fix this would be to nerf the handful of decent actives left into the ground, thus making everything as boring and uninspired as the majority of attacks. Until then, mashing the same 2-3 keys is the price I and many others will have to pay for the sake of effectiveness.
 
tl;dr: the degree of similarities between the majority of abilities and the limitation on how many you can use at a time just seems like a very lazy attempt at balance and it’s the reason why the combat feels lackluster. The other MMOs I’ve played that limited you to such a small number of active abilities compensated by giving you access to ALL the attacks with the weapon you were using so the combat wasn’t as repetitive. I know that simple, mindless rotations are not new to MMOs, but this is the first game I’ve played that actually punishes you for doing the opposite.

You are so full of it. In fact you are without a doubt flat out lying.

You are not wearing greens from FATE. I have been in Beta for many months, I PvP many hours each day. For starters a full green Tanking set from Fate Only gives about 8k health and has no offensive stats at all.  So are you trying to tell me you are wearing 5 or 6 tanking talisman and 1 or 2 dps talisman? Cause if you were there is no way you would get those pen/crit numbers. You would not even get those pen/crit numbers from a full set of DPS greens from FATE rocking 4.5k health.

Here is what you are wearing, a full set of Nightmare Dungeon QL 10.1 and 10.2 talismans, you have 5 dps Talismans and 2 tanking talismans equipped (with all signet slots filled), both weapons are QL 10.2. You are rocking close to 2800 attack power, around 850 penetration and around 700 crit rating. Plus you have the full Fusang faction defensive buffs.

You are fighting enemy players in greens whos offensive stats are probably 1/4 of yours and they have no real clue how to play because they are totally new to the game. Go fight "qop", "Blademaiden", "DeathAdder" or any of a couple dozen other highly skilled, highly geared Dragons or Lumies and post a video of those fights.

If you attacked me with that character you wouldn't get me below 70% and you would die a slow and humiliating death. Why you lie bro?

 

 

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

6/28/12 1:18:41 AM#231
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Piiritus
 

Every match I've encountered so far in TSW, I've pretty much known the outcome before it even started. 'Count number of enemies', 'Look at enemy's health, look at his weapons', all that's left is to press the buttons. I can't say this at all about any poker game I've ever played.

Notice something lacking from your assessment?

You aren't considering skill at all.

That says a considerable amount about the game.

I mean, counterclasses (counterspecs here) happen. But if you're correct, then you're rock and your enemy is scissors or paper.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/28/12 1:23:45 AM#232
Originally posted by Deathofsage
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

tbh people who don't understand how the ability trees, stats and level system in TSW work are being slow, it's really not complicated. I'm not saying they are mentally deficient or anything, just that they are not thinking things through.

The best analogy I can think of is people not splitting up a restaurant dinner bill because they think it's too complicated or can't be bothered to divide by 4.

Most people, myself included, aren't "not understanding" the combat. We're "not liking it".

The game might chiefly be about questing, but combat is what 90% of players do 90% of the time when they're not questing, and at least half the quests involve combat to some extent, even if its dealing with agro while running to your destination.

oh hey, I get that, I don't really like the combat either, but my preferences are not what I'm discussing here, I'll be playing TSW sort of like a point-and-click story game, with maybe a dash of owning large numbers of combat fanboys with my guild in Fusang.

I was just saying that those who say the combat and spec trees in TSW are complex and deep are actually wrong, much in the same way as one can be wrong about the R-squared of a statistical study - that it is a matter of fact that TSW is actually very simplistic and limited, not a matter of preference.

  Kykyryz-a

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 114

6/28/12 1:27:33 AM#233
Originally posted by Piiritus
Originally posted by Greyhooff
 

Oh and as a poker player myself, I have to say if you think TSW's combat system fits the analogy of a hand of poker, you don't know how to play poker.

Of the quick people is back. Now you are saying that again. Honestly, you seem to hate TSW so much it makes me wonder why do you linger in these forums all the time? Go to WoW or it's clone GW2 with your epeen where all other l33tkidz are. As much as I despise those 2 games I don't spend my time bashing them 24/7.

Why if people cant defend game they always starting to say crazy things, in what way GW cllone of Wow? OP never said TSW is bad game   he just said and SHOWED,  fights in game poor as no need in situational Spells like cc and only thing you need 2 fingers and once in a while hit 3rd button.  as game not even finished after 7/3 it will be getting patches all the time for sure.  And  to other ppl who saying he is fighting with low "lvl" ppl  - if ppl were in Close beta for months and had 4k+  its kinda stupid to say they are ungeared or in tank gear (yeah tank is what you want in pvp!) as he showed how Ungeared player owned in 3 hits in a link before.  Sure most of players act like retards  so in other hand maybe TSW designed  for ppl who have troubles hitting even 2 buttons and moving mouse sametime. 

Still good video good post  just no need to hate OP only because he is trying to show problems in a game.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

6/28/12 1:35:03 AM#234
Originally posted by Deathofsage
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Piiritus
 

Every match I've encountered so far in TSW, I've pretty much known the outcome before it even started. 'Count number of enemies', 'Look at enemy's health, look at his weapons', all that's left is to press the buttons. I can't say this at all about any poker game I've ever played.

Notice something lacking from your assessment?

You aren't considering skill at all.

That says a considerable amount about the game.

I mean, counterclasses (counterspecs here) happen. But if you're correct, then you're rock and your enemy is scissors or paper.

I left that out of my assessment, because I didn't need to know how skilled the player was. Their skill basically meant the difference between whether or not I ended a fight w/ most of my HP, or wounded. Either way, I had a self-heal to take care of that.

Hell, I'm not even the only one w/ this experience. There have been a number of videos / livestreams posted that all show the same thing. There just aren't enough counters, you know what your build is good at, and what it isn't. You can generally tell what another person is running by their health / weapons (or even kit, since your appearance changes depending on what you Q up as). A low damage spec is going to suck against a good healer, so unless you can down his HP pool in a few hits, you can't win it. A high damage spec can eat a healer alive np, as well as another DPS, but if they find a tank w/ more than double their HP, it's going to be a very tough fight. etc. You can try a more balanced spec as well, which might make it harder for you to determine the outcome of a fight, but generally I've found these don't do that well in this game's PvP.

And ya, it does say a lot about the combat =/

  Kykyryz-a

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 114

6/28/12 1:36:09 AM#235
Originally posted by moreblahblah
Originally posted by Krytycal

 

 

You are so full of it. In fact you are without a doubt flat out lying.

You are not wearing greens from FATE. I have been in Beta for many months, I PvP many hours each day. For starters a full green Tanking set from Fate Only gives about 8k health and has no offensive stats at all.  So are you trying to tell me you are wearing 5 or 6 tanking talisman and 1 or 2 dps talisman? Cause if you were there is no way you would get those pen/crit numbers. You would not even get those pen/crit numbers from a full set of DPS greens from FATE rocking 4.5k health.

Here is what you are wearing, a full set of Nightmare Dungeon QL 10.1 and 10.2 talismans, you have 5 dps Talismans and 2 tanking talismans equipped (with all signet slots filled), both weapons are QL 10.2. You are rocking close to 2800 attack power, around 850 penetration and around 700 crit rating. Plus you have the full Fusang faction defensive buffs.

You are fighting enemy players in greens whos offensive stats are probably 1/4 of yours and they have no real clue how to play because they are totally new to the game. Go fight "qop", "Blademaiden", "DeathAdder" or any of a couple dozen other highly skilled, highly geared Dragons or Lumies and post a video of those fights.

If you attacked me with that character you wouldn't get me below 70% and you would die a slow and humiliating death. Why you lie bro?

 

 

So 1 more person who knows everythg :)   saying OP got TOp gear AND he  can't  get  HIM below 70%  

PLS  moreblahblah  post video with your char  1-2 hitting everythg moving in a range of "shoot"   or really try to argue about  topic here "complex of fight in TSW"  

you just said same thing ... combat is 1-2 buttons and  only thing matters is gear and ability to spam 2 buttons.  nothg else.   you dont need any tactic you dont need  cc.

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/28/12 1:44:13 AM#236
Originally posted by Kykyryz-a
Originally posted by moreblahblah
Originally posted by Krytycal

 

 

You are so full of it. In fact you are without a doubt flat out lying.

You are not wearing greens from FATE. I have been in Beta for many months, I PvP many hours each day. For starters a full green Tanking set from Fate Only gives about 8k health and has no offensive stats at all.  So are you trying to tell me you are wearing 5 or 6 tanking talisman and 1 or 2 dps talisman? Cause if you were there is no way you would get those pen/crit numbers. You would not even get those pen/crit numbers from a full set of DPS greens from FATE rocking 4.5k health.

Here is what you are wearing, a full set of Nightmare Dungeon QL 10.1 and 10.2 talismans, you have 5 dps Talismans and 2 tanking talismans equipped (with all signet slots filled), both weapons are QL 10.2. You are rocking close to 2800 attack power, around 850 penetration and around 700 crit rating. Plus you have the full Fusang faction defensive buffs.

You are fighting enemy players in greens whos offensive stats are probably 1/4 of yours and they have no real clue how to play because they are totally new to the game. Go fight "qop", "Blademaiden", "DeathAdder" or any of a couple dozen other highly skilled, highly geared Dragons or Lumies and post a video of those fights.

If you attacked me with that character you wouldn't get me below 70% and you would die a slow and humiliating death. Why you lie bro?

 

 

So 1 more person who knows everythg :)   saying OP got TOp gear AND he  can't  get  HIM below 70%  

PLS  moreblahblah  post video with your char  1-2 hitting everythg moving in a range of "shoot"   or really try to argue about  topic here "complex of fight in TSW"  

you just said same thing ... combat is 1-2 buttons and  only thing matters is gear and ability to spam 2 buttons.  nothg else.   you dont need any tactic you dont need  cc.

 

Yeah I don't think Moreblahblah realises it, but what he just said was in effect that:

a) skill does not matter as combat is simplistic

b) the PVP is completely gear level driven

  Elethon

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 111

6/28/12 1:45:50 AM#237

Thank you OP for the excellent post and video.

When I first heard this game would have hundrends of skills to choose from, I knew it would just be trouble as many skils will have to be homogenized with others.

  mrgrimrpr

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/04
Posts: 93

6/28/12 1:51:17 AM#238

The combat isn't any worse than WoW/SWTOR/GW2/RIFT/LOTRO.

  Raekon

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 552

6/28/12 2:01:17 AM#239
Originally posted by Blackbrrd
Originally posted by Raekon

TSW

- you run into a zombies infested place, the zombies are running to you as if they had pushed the "turbo mode" button and are glued on your body no matter how you move, biting you 24/7 till they are dead.

- No dodging possible, not a possibility to put them away since they are too fast and are glued on your body as if they were your second skin.

I saw a TSW dev commenting on this and said that just moving and active dodging made you live 33% longer than just standing there. The mobs does continous attacks if you stand still, but get forced into the movement animation if you move. You can't backpedal though, you need to circle strafe.

Hi! :)

I know that you can strafe and circle around.

My problem with it was that even the basic zombies were THAT fast that no matter how you moved, they kept been glued on your body, barely did damage while you were taking them out one after another.

If they managed to take your hp down (some stronger ones) you simply healed with a item before you took them down again while they were repeating their same attack animation over and over while you had no chance to take some distance by rolling or jumping back or to the side.

In my opinion they could fix the issue by either adding proper dodging/jumping/rolling into the game (make it more action based like in the RE Series as example) OR at least make these zombies slower than the player cause their speed is ridicoulos.

When I get attacked by "turbo zombies" that barely do damage and are glued on my body no matter how I move, it just destroys this feeling and drops the quality of the game down to nothingness and that's a bad thing.

Even enemies that should be faster than the player like birds or dogs shouldn't just rush and get glued on one but rather attack, step back and rush attack again.

If they indeed "stuck" on the player, then a proper animation should be included in which shows that a dog has bitten and holds a part of your clothing or body and give you the opportunity to hit it away, roll back (or similar action) before it makes it back to you again.

Same with the zombies after they reached someone.

Such details would improve the overall quality of the game and richen the whole experience for everyone.

It just bothers me the most because the game has a wonderful atmosphere/environment in which properly designed enemies and combat mechanics could give you a really great horror adventure feeling and add a lot of fun into the game.

It would be a huge shame if they won't bother to improve such things.

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

6/28/12 2:06:05 AM#240
Originally posted by mrgrimrpr

The combat isn't any worse than WoW/SWTOR/GW2/RIFT/LOTRO.

I've said this in enough threads, but it is, imo, worse than WoW/RIFT's (I wouldn't describe TOR's as any different, but it didn't execute that well and I only played it on one beta weekend).

A big thing for me is the number of abilities. I think the only major flaw in TSW's combat is the limit on abilities. If you had 7 things that could be part of your rotation, and 3-7 that were cooldowns, it might be significantly more fun (for me, and some others, but not everyone).

I feel like there's always an optimal opener and optimal closer, and I feel like most fights have me spamming those two buttons.

If I came up on two tough mobs, I would go at them with my shotgun/chaos like this..

  1. Kneecapper,
  2. Builder*5,
  3. Shotgun AOE Fnisher,
  4. Chaos ST Finisher,
  5. Builder*5,
  6. Shotgun AOE Finisher,
  7. Chaos ST Finisher,
  8. -mob dies here, or very low on health (might need to finish it off rq, maybe with aoe finisher on the other mob),
  9. Builder*5 (depending on how it took to kill the other mob.
  10. Shotgun ST Finisher
  11. Chaos ST Finisher
  12. Both enemies are probably dead
If I'm fighting more than 2, I use AOE builder.
 
Fights RARELY last the 20s to use Kneecapper twice.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

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