I suspect that ppl who dont like sandbox think this way just becouse sandbox games have rly poor graphs and animation quality and themepark are more bealtyfull and dynamic.

Imagine if you culd build a town made of your guild mates houses and shops and even castles and holds,climb montains and trees,grab rocks wood or whatever in scenario,land,loot taxes,where you culd plant,modify terrain etc in your favorite game,gw2,tera,wow etc...

Wuld you like to see sandbox contents and features in games with quality and dynamics of a themepark?

I couldnt care less about graphics (as long as it is 3D and has nice animations for melee like WoW)

But what I hate most about Sandbox MMO, is the FFA PvP and Full Loot/Player Body Looting.

thats the main and only reason.

most Sandbox MMO now days are built for those things I pointed out above.

Thats a major turn off from the start.

with limited PvE, the main focus turns into full on PvP FFA conflict and losing your hard earned rewards to somebody trying to be a butthole.

the Players, more than Bugs, ruin the Sandbox MMO genre.

This is why I am also having doubts about Archeage.

I feel the Players will be the killer of Archeage. not the Launch Bugs.
This isnt Asia. This is NA/Euro. Their Culture is more "Every Man For Them Self" "I Pleasure The Pain Of Others"

this mindset will never make Sandbox MMO fun for the masses with FFA PvP/Corpse looting.

think about it.

ppl that hate sandbox are those that need the minimap to tell them exactly where the secret treasure box is. or people that hate ffapvp .. for some reason sandbox and ffapvp are synonyms to a large portion of the population.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 But what I hate most about Sandbox MMO, is the FFA PvP and Full Loot/Player Body Looting.

+1 to that.

I don't really like (100%) fixed character models and fixed skills. Just give me freedom in character progression where as (lets say) warrior I can pickup some wizard skills (much like Elder Scrolls does). But I do want some theme-park in the game as well to 'keep me busy' (quests/missions are the standard things for that).

Of course, lore and my actions in the world should also matter to the game. Lore for how the world progresses and NPC's act to certain events (either system events or things players have done). And then your actions on how NPC's respond to you. Some might dislike you because you did X, while others will love you for it.

...but I think we can all keep dreaming for the perfect sandbox/themepark with PvE/PvP mix...

Originally posted by MMOExposed

I couldnt care less about graphics (as long as it is 3D and has nice animations for melee like WoW)

 

But what I hate most about Sandbox MMO, is the FFA PvP and Full Loot/Player Body Looting.

I don't get why everyone associates FFA PvP / full player looting with sandboxes.   I consider SWG one of the best sandbox style games we've seen and it did not have any of that.  

Originally posted by Xssiv

Originally posted by MMOExposed

I couldnt care less about graphics (as long as it is 3D and has nice animations for melee like WoW)

 

But what I hate most about Sandbox MMO, is the FFA PvP and Full Loot/Player Body Looting.

I don't get why everyone associates FFA PvP / full player looting with sandboxes.   I consider SWG one of the best sandbox style games we've seen and it did not have any of that.  

 

And that was release how long ago?  How many new sandbox games have  been released with consentual pvp?  Problem is game developers associate sandbox with ffa pvp.

Originally posted by Xssiv

Originally posted by MMOExposed

I couldnt care less about graphics (as long as it is 3D and has nice animations for melee like WoW)

 

But what I hate most about Sandbox MMO, is the FFA PvP and Full Loot/Player Body Looting.

I don't get why everyone associates FFA PvP / full player looting with sandboxes.   ...

I don't get it either. Basically people are either lying or they talk about something they know nothing about. I think it's the latter. I'm getting the impression that many posters in these sandboxy threads recently have actually never played a sandbox MMORPG in their entire life. Doesn't stop them for posting of course. :)

Talk about one of the most bias polls I've ever seen. So basically the options are a) I love sandboxes, b),c),d),e) i'm a hater.

Honestly, while the graphics issue may be an issue for some, for most it's because the overwhelming majority of sandboxes just aren't well made. Gamers are getting older, and most of us no longer have enough time to spend on a lot of the sandboxy features many 'true' sandbox fans seem to want.

I mean, think about it from this perspective. You have only a certain amount of time to play games, but you enjoy MMOs. You use that time you have to build up your own house, town, etc. and are happy w/ the result. You go to work, log back in the following night, and discover some kid who's been playing all day just raped your house. You basically have zero ability to deal w/ it, as it would require you to basically be playing all day. This is not fun, and this is what most people don't want. People have lives, and while they like persistance in games, they don't like to be punished for having a life. This is one area where sandbox games generally fail at, and really need to evolve.

I think Planetside 2 is going to be a good example of this. Capturing stuff in that game takes effort, and is challenging. However, the game is focused enough that you don't seem to feel like all is lost when you log off. For starters, it's not every man for himself, you're part of a collective army. That in & of itself goes a long way towards making the world more pallatable.

There's another thread about this, but sandbox games are actually some of the most difficult to make.

Supposedly this is what Archeage is aiming for, I guess we'll wait and see if it's any good.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

This is why I am also having doubts about Archeage.

I feel the Players will be the killer of Archeage. not the Launch Bugs.
This isnt Asia. This is NA/Euro. Their Culture is more "Every Man For Them Self" "I Pleasure The Pain Of Others"

this mindset will never make Sandbox MMO fun for the masses with FFA PvP/Corpse looting.

think about it.

You've obviously never played a PvP game with asians.  "Every man for themself" HAHAHAHAHA

Also, ArcheAge will have the ability to track down and guardwhack your killer (getting both his and your own gear/items back)

Repopulation has both PvP zones and a flagging system

Embers has a karma system in the workd with statloss for reds

Originally posted by aesperus

Talk about one of the most bias polls I've ever seen. So basically the options are a) I love sandboxes, b),c),d),e) i'm a hater.

Agreed, poll is stupid.

I was actually expecting more out of this thread

"No,I dont have time to side gameplay and i dont like to see anyone else enjoying it"

This must be the worst poll option I've ever seen. What the hell?

This poll is useless btw

Originally posted by seridan

"No,I dont have time to side gameplay and i dont like to see anyone else enjoying it"

This must be the worst poll option I've ever seen. What the hell?

This poll is useless btw

Quoted for truth

As long as the ffa PVP and full loot system are brought in as well then hell yeah..

I love SB elements and they go hand in hand with open worl pvp.. Without that sure the game would be better than your average themepark games but would still be missing that little somthing..

Well while poll is hilariously bias'd, I would agree at least with some of the OP's point that people don't really hate one type of game versus the other, just that one type happens to overdone by big-budget companies and not done overly well, and the other happens to be underdeveloped by small companies and also ends up typically not being done very well.

I think its fair to say people just want good games regardless of where they fall in the genre spectrum.

I have nothing against sandboxes. But if you're just going to start a themepark bash thread you won't get anywhere. I don't spend my time walking around sandbox forums talking about how sandboxes suck like people in this thread are already doing.

How dare people pay for other people to create entertainment for them!

Originally posted by Xssiv

I don't get why everyone associates FFA PvP / full player looting with sandboxes.   I consider SWG one of the best sandbox style games we've seen and it did not have any of that.  

Probably because every sandbox has been like that (SWG is an exception) and all the sandbox fans think it's not a sandbox otherwise.

EVE, MO, DF, Pathfinder, and now Embers of Caerus. Yeah.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

I couldnt care less about graphics (as long as it is 3D and has nice animations for melee like WoW)

 

But what I hate most about Sandbox MMO, is the FFA PvP and Full Loot/Player Body Looting.

 

thats the main and only reason.

 

most Sandbox MMO now days are built for those things I pointed out above.

Thats a major turn off from the start.

 

with limited PvE, the main focus turns into full on PvP FFA conflict and losing your hard earned rewards to somebody trying to be a butthole.

the Players, more than Bugs, ruin the Sandbox MMO genre.

This is why I am also having doubts about Archeage.

I feel the Players will be the killer of Archeage. not the Launch Bugs.
This isnt Asia. This is NA/Euro. Their Culture is more "Every Man For Them Self" "I Pleasure The Pain Of Others"

this mindset will never make Sandbox MMO fun for the masses with FFA PvP/Corpse looting.

think about it.

I agree here, look how sandbox players act in a forum lol. They could make the most amazing sandbox game ever, and it would fail by the players destroying and griefing out the population. There is only two play style options in a sandbox game, be a thief/murderer or be prey. 

Originally posted by Grixxitt

Originally posted by aesperus

Talk about one of the most bias polls I've ever seen. So basically the options are a) I love sandboxes, b),c),d),e) i'm a hater.

Agreed, poll is stupid.

I was actually expecting more out of this thread

Since the OP is just asking "If everything you wanted in a game was in a high quality game, would you like it?" the thread delivered exactly what I expected.  The correlation of high quality with any particular aspect of MMOs (sandbox, social, themepark) is such an absurd claim to make, but I think most people avoided that to avoid another tp/sb thread.

Originally posted by Irus

I have nothing against sandboxes. But if you're just going to start a themepark bash thread you won't get anywhere. I don't spend my time walking around sandbox forums talking about how sandboxes suck like people in this thread are already doing.

How dare people pay for other people to create entertainment for them!

Originally posted by Xssiv

I don't get why everyone associates FFA PvP / full player looting with sandboxes.   I consider SWG one of the best sandbox style games we've seen and it did not have any of that.  

Probably because every sandbox has been like that (SWG is an exception) and all the sandbox fans think it's not a sandbox otherwise.

EVE, MO, DF, Pathfinder, and now Embers of Caerus. Yeah.

Free Realms, ATITD, Puzzle Pirates, Wakfu, Mabinogi, Runescape, UO(Trammel).

Pretty much most successful sandbox-style MMOs have little or no PVP. Feel free to argue otherwise, though.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Free Realms, ATITD, Puzzle Pirates, Wakfu, Mabinogi, Runescape, UO(Trammel).

 

Pretty much most successful sandbox-style MMOs have little or no PVP. Feel free to argue otherwise, though.

Lokto nailed it once again.

And I will add "all failed (or very small niche - barely surviving) sandbox MMOs are FFA PvP.

I'm surprised you don't add EvE to the list though. EvE is definitely not "pure FFA PvP", just "scaled PvP", which is why the game had so much success.