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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Gems for gold and real money

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188 posts found
  ZenonSeth

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/08
Posts: 128

You never know until you find out!

6/27/12 6:36:22 AM#161
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
[snip]

Furthermore, I don't think a majority of the complainers have complained about the persons per se, but the company choices to introduce certain systems. 

 

Also, the concept of "To progress in a game, you should play the game" favors the act of of playing a game to achieve progress compared to obtaining the progress through outside means. I will though point out that I mean "progress" in very loose terms, so that even the acquisition of an item is considered a form of progress. 

Eh... if one of your aims is to find cool gear, you might feel bad that someone can just buy it. At the end, none of us are equal - some have more money to spend on a game, some have more time (and I don't have that much time, so I feel at a disadvantage there). 

However, I still don't think buying gold has that huge of an impact. (which is what this thread is about). You can earn gold, so you have the same access to items as players do.

Conversly, exchanging gold for gems means you can buy stuff with gems without actually having to pay the real-life money to get the gems. 

I think the gold/gems trade actually gives you *more* freedom, not less.

  xenogias

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/07
Posts: 1945

6/27/12 7:09:11 AM#162
Originally posted by Psym0n

 

5. As of BWE 2, the only way to obtain town clothes or minis was to purchase them from the gem shop. Will some town clothes or minis be obtainable as in-game rewards (say, for achievements or as mini-game prizes) when the game launches, or will they be restricted to the cash shop only?
Eric: At the moment, our plan for town clothes and minis is that they are only available via the Black Lion Trading Post (formerly, the Gem Store). There are, of course, some exceptions to this for things like the collector’s edition and other promotional giveaways. One other thing to note is that players are able to use in-game gold to trade for gems with other players via the exchange, so a player does not necessarily need to use cash to acquire these items.

 

I highlighted the part that concerns me in red. If you can buy gems for real money and trade them with other players for gold, isn´t that the exact same thing as buying gold? 

I mean, if I have say 3000 gold, and my friend has 3000 gems he bought for 10 euro´s ( I don´t know the exact costs) and then trades the gems to my account for 3000 gold. In my speculations that´s buying gold for money, but now the goldseller gets gems and ArenaNet gets the money.

This is the article that features this topic:

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/guildwars/guildwars2/guildwars2BWE2interview.html

What is your opinion on this?

 

Cheers

One thing that some people seem to be ignoring and is painfully obvious after just a few hours with GW2. Gems are going to be the main currency of the game. Gold has its uses ingame but there are not a ton of major gold sinks like in other games. Except for maybe crafting. You could argue that means gems will be extreemly expensive then and this wont work out the way Anet is hoping. I disagree though. Everyone wants to be rich ingame. You may not realise it right away, but there is soemthing wired in our brain that says having a billion gold is important even if its not. In WOW gold was pretty much useless and people still hoarded it.

My biggest worry is how the community will deal with it. Is it going to turn out like EVE or Hellgate London where gold=specific dollar value that is reasonable? That depends on both the sellers, buyers, and how Anet handles gold drops/rewards ingame.

As far as gold sellers go. They are always going to be there. The question is how will Anet handle it. Is gold going to be harder to obtain because there arent the major gold sinks? Or will they make it easy, thus making it easier for gold farmers which in turn will quickly ruin the gem economy in the game.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10376

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/27/12 8:01:37 AM#163

In game economies are not very robust. So GW2's economy gets borked because gold is no longer a medium of exchange because of gems. And what, the game crashes? Players leave in droves? No, I don't think so.

What will happen is that players won't care about the economy. Which is fine because the economy is going to go to cr@p at some point anyway, with or without the ability to buy and sell gems. Players will continue to play the game.

I just don't think it's going to be a big deal.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  p_c_sousa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/31/08
Posts: 627

6/27/12 9:09:16 AM#164
Originally posted by xenogias
Originally posted by Psym0n

 

5. As of BWE 2, the only way to obtain town clothes or minis was to purchase them from the gem shop. Will some town clothes or minis be obtainable as in-game rewards (say, for achievements or as mini-game prizes) when the game launches, or will they be restricted to the cash shop only?
Eric: At the moment, our plan for town clothes and minis is that they are only available via the Black Lion Trading Post (formerly, the Gem Store). There are, of course, some exceptions to this for things like the collector’s edition and other promotional giveaways. One other thing to note is that players are able to use in-game gold to trade for gems with other players via the exchange, so a player does not necessarily need to use cash to acquire these items.

 

I highlighted the part that concerns me in red. If you can buy gems for real money and trade them with other players for gold, isn´t that the exact same thing as buying gold? 

I mean, if I have say 3000 gold, and my friend has 3000 gems he bought for 10 euro´s ( I don´t know the exact costs) and then trades the gems to my account for 3000 gold. In my speculations that´s buying gold for money, but now the goldseller gets gems and ArenaNet gets the money.

This is the article that features this topic:

http://www.rpgamer.com/games/guildwars/guildwars2/guildwars2BWE2interview.html

What is your opinion on this?

 

Cheers

One thing that some people seem to be ignoring and is painfully obvious after just a few hours with GW2. Gems are going to be the main currency of the game. Gold has its uses ingame but there are not a ton of major gold sinks like in other games. Except for maybe crafting. You could argue that means gems will be extreemly expensive then and this wont work out the way Anet is hoping. I disagree though. Everyone wants to be rich ingame. You may not realise it right away, but there is soemthing wired in our brain that says having a billion gold is important even if its not. In WOW gold was pretty much useless and people still hoarded it.

My biggest worry is how the community will deal with it. Is it going to turn out like EVE or Hellgate London where gold=specific dollar value that is reasonable? That depends on both the sellers, buyers, and how Anet handles gold drops/rewards ingame.

As far as gold sellers go. They are always going to be there. The question is how will Anet handle it. Is gold going to be harder to obtain because there arent the major gold sinks? Or will they make it easy, thus making it easier for gold farmers which in turn will quickly ruin the gem economy in the game.

very true. i know lot of guys that have lot and lot of gold and they just dont want spend it. if they need something they will not spend money on AH. 

that have a name....GREED. no matter how much gold they have they want more.

any game where you can trade real money for gold will always have a good playerbase that will use shop, dont matter if they cant do much with Gold, they just like to collect it.

  uidCaustic

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 148

6/27/12 9:25:36 AM#165

The only difference between this and every other game I've played is that now when I buy gold it's actually going to the company, instead of gold farmers.  People buy gold, a lot of people.  Saying that it's bad isn't going to stop it from happening... just shows bitterness due your lack of funds... if you could afford it, you would too.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10376

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/27/12 9:31:46 AM#166


Originally posted by uidCaustic
The only difference between this and every other game I've played is that now when I buy gold it's actually going to the company, instead of gold farmers.  People buy gold, a lot of people.  Saying that it's bad isn't going to stop it from happening... just shows bitterness due your lack of funds... if you could afford it, you would too.


No...I could afford to buy gold. I could also afford to buy gems from Anet. I probably won't though. Unless the purchase increases my personal enjoyment of the game, there's no reason to spend the money.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2548

6/27/12 9:36:18 AM#167

What is the problem of players buying gold in this game?

You can't buy power.

 

Also, you can't trade gems directly with other players - it all goes through the exchange post.

 

I'm planning on buying character slots, bank panes and bag slots.

If I can do so without spending real world money it is a win for me - in GW1 I had to buy the stuff with real money.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

6/27/12 9:59:06 AM#168

Gems for gold, gold for gems. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. For the most part gold is insignificant.

What will you buy with gold once you hit 80?. You will max out your gear, fill out your bagspace, buy the commander upgrade, buy character upgrades if you haven't already. All of these things shouldn't dent your money reserves when you reach max level. So what will you buy with your gold then? Vanity items. 

Vanity items come in 2 forms. Personal vanity items, which are items you personally find appealing. Epeen vanity items, Items that are mainly meant to show of how much money you have. Most of the time this will be the most rare items ingame. Most notable vanity items will be rare skins and mini pets.

Now for vanity items gold isn't insignificant. This is also the place where gems can have a negative effect on the ingame economy. If gems aren't widely available than they can be used to drive up prices significantly, but the fact that the economy is global and not just server wide should help prevent this somewhat.

Gold will be the main trading currency as it is the only currency usable in the Trading Post. Now if there is a finite amount of gold that you can have than Gems will be used as a form of gold storage. Though due to the lack of direct player -> player trading it can't be used as a form of currency other than what it is designed for.

So gems can affect the economy, but I don't feel it will make to much of an impact as the things you will buy will not be able to affect gameplay.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

6/27/12 11:32:05 AM#169
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
 

I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.

The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.

Weren't Arenanet brilliant  with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake

     It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

6/27/12 12:02:07 PM#170
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
 

I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.

The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.

Weren't Arenanet brilliant  with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake

     It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".

Can you see the difference?

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

6/27/12 12:29:36 PM#171

OK, hypothetical.

 

  1. I buy a ton of gems on the cash shop.
  2. I sell that to players for lots and lots of gold, because they decide gems are worth a bajillion gold to them.
  3. I use that gold to buy the best crafted armor in the AH.
  4. I have a small but noticeable numeric advantage over someone with crappier gear. 
  5. I still lose fights, because that advantage is not enough to offset differences in skill or situational advantages in combat.
 
  1. Or, I use it to buy millions of  plans for WvW.
  2. I can't build millions of seige, because my side doens't contorl that much supply. 
  3. Even ifI CAN build lots of siege, the plans are so cheap I didn't need bought gold to do it! That guy on the other side was able to buy 20 treb plans without a problem. More than he's reasonably going to use, certainly more than there's supply for. And never bought a gem in his life.
 
  1. Or, I use it to buy all the (insert valuable item here) on the market.
  2. Now that I control that item, players buy it from me, giving me MORE gold. 
  3. The process repeats.
  4. Oh wait, it doesn't. Other players realize what I'm doing and undersell me.
  5. Wait, I can buy their auctions and resell them. All I have to do it be on 24 hrs a day and snatch up every purchase. Then I can have all the gold! Muahahahahaha
  6. Wait, back to the first situation. 
  7. They haven't made Scrooge McDuck money bins yet, so even if I do have 10x the gold as anyone else, what the hell am I going to do with it?
 
I'm not saying gold is useless. Far from it. I'm saying that all gold/gems buy you is time. You get something a little easier, a little faster, than someone else. You might always have a few more gold than that person, but there are several baffles in place that can/should/hopefully will keep this in balance:
 
  • Supply limits the usefulness of hoarding plans.
  • Gear stats don't vary enough that you are garaunteeed any decent victory rate with better gear that other people.
  • Everything that touches the market is dependant on every player in it. If people don't buy from/sell to you, your riches mean nothing.
 
That last, sadly, is the closest thing to a real problem. Other players are just as likely to realize time=money too, and will be willing to throw extra gold your way to save themselves a little farming. Yes there are people that will pay out the nose for a 1% advantage. And in some cases, that might give them the edge they need, because they were already top flight, winning 99% of their fights from sheer skill. This just cements the deal. That means a lot to some people. if it means a lot to you, if you HAVE to have that absolute highest advantage...well...it's up to you how you'd respond. You could play the market by turning your gold into gems (the rerverse of the RMT user), and beat them at their own game. You could rely on your own gathering/questing to keep you sufficiently supplied. It doens't seem that tough to do, just takes longer. Or you could just not care and enjoy the game.

 

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

6/27/12 1:48:23 PM#172
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
 

I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.

The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.

Weren't Arenanet brilliant  with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake

     It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".

Can you see the difference?

 LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.

I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop.  I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."

Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

6/27/12 1:55:13 PM#173
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
 

I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.

The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.

Weren't Arenanet brilliant  with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake

     It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".

Can you see the difference?

 LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.

I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop.  I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."

Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.

An advantage, yes. I will not deny that. The problem is people's tend to run to extremes. An advantage suddenly=anyone that uses the cash shop "wins" the game, and people that don't can't even come close, so the kids with the credit cards win. 

 

The only serious impact this has is on player time. And I'm not discounting that, I just want it to be clear that's the only location it matters. A player with gems cannot rule over others with an iron fist; not in WvW, not in sPVP, not in PVE, not even in the economy (unless everyone else playing the market is a complete idiot). 

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

6/27/12 2:06:17 PM#174

If I wanted to pay my little brother in gems to level my toon for me while I am out that would be ok?

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10376

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

6/27/12 2:08:12 PM#175


Originally posted by TalulaRose
If I wanted to pay my little brother in gems to level my toon for me while I am out that would be ok?


Yes. That would be fine. If you want to send me your username and password, I'd be happy to do this for you as well.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Muntz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/09
Posts: 279

6/27/12 2:15:08 PM#176
Originally posted by terrant
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
 

I'd be more inclined to think the cash shop may have a large effect if gold was a significant currency. However, the prestigious items, the "best" gear are obtained through crafting and dungeon tokens. OK, maybe people can trade for gold to buy crafted gear... but based on the difficulty in crafting that higher end gear (there are many many steps) I don't really foresee that being an issue. The gold economy is far less significant than it is in other games. As an aside, gold-sellers are going to hate this.

The game hasn't released and you already have the economy all figured out.

Weren't Arenanet brilliant  with the design of the Gem to Gold system? Since you have stated that gold isn't a significant currency. It means they developed a system that won't be used. It's funny that such a "revolutionary" developer would make such a mistake

     It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".

Can you see the difference?

 LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.

I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop.  I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."

Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.

An advantage, yes. I will not deny that. The problem is people's tend to run to extremes. An advantage suddenly=anyone that uses the cash shop "wins" the game, and people that don't can't even come close, so the kids with the credit cards win. 

 

The only serious impact this has is on player time. And I'm not discounting that, I just want it to be clear that's the only location it matters. A player with gems cannot rule over others with an iron fist; not in WvW, not in sPVP, not in PVE, not even in the economy (unless everyone else playing the market is a complete idiot). 

These discussions get all loopy. Cause I though Mary had the advantage because she actually played the game. I guess fun isn't an advantage to many. Now if Mary had to distastefully grind for gold then yes Bob may have the advantage unless he had to do something more distasteful to earn the money. 

  TalulaRose

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 407

6/27/12 2:17:11 PM#177
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by TalulaRose
If I wanted to pay my little brother in gems to level my toon for me while I am out that would be ok?



Yes. That would be fine. If you want to send me your username and password, I'd be happy to do this for you as well.

 

Its ok, I know which room my brother sleeps in so I can get some sibling revenge and be satisfied.

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

6/27/12 2:20:14 PM#178
Originally posted by Muntz

These discussions get all loopy. Cause I though Mary had the advantage because she actually played the game. I guess fun isn't an advantage to many. Now if Mary had to distastefully grind for gold then yes Bob may have the advantage unless he had to do something more distasteful to earn the money. 

That last part is pretty much the advantage. mary has to spend some time grinding, Bob doesn't. he has the time advantage. But both players CAN get the same items, just at different rates. Since all things cap out at some point, they'll be even before long no matter what.

 

If tis were a situation where gear mattered more, and Bob could buy a full set of top-end super epic gear the second he turned max level, and Mary had no ability to earn the same gear no matter how much effort was input, and for those months Bob was able to pwn Mary at everything with complete ease, it would be an unfair advantage.

 

  loulaki

Elite Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 773

6/28/12 3:02:10 AM#179
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Atlan99
Originally posted by Volkon
 

     It's really not that complicated. Gold is the primary currency in game that gives you access to the convenience items in the gem store. You acquire gold, have a few gold sinks in game, and at your leisure convert gold to gems to gain things like more bag slots or bank slots. Karma, dungeon tokens, crafting... these are more directed at getting higher quality "stuffs".

Can you see the difference?

 LOL, I think you win that argument Atlan.

I don't see why so many people refuse to see that you can get an advantage by spending money in the cash shop.  I'm not saying it's a huge advantage, but if Bob spends money to get an awesome gear, and an essentially unlimited supply of siege blueprints, while Mary has to spend hours upon hours actually playing (shock) the game to do this, then yeah, that's an "advantage."

Granted, I would think Bob is kind of dumb because he basically paid money in order to not play a game that he is supposed to enjoy...but to each his own.

well its really lose of time trying to convience some guys ..!

i just know that in EVE worked, that Blizzard added it for their Diablo III, its a system which is working and for sure its killing the RMT, this is its focus, thats why all this argument is failed from its begging ..!

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

6/28/12 5:04:54 AM#180
Originally posted by uidCaustic

The only difference between this and every other game I've played is that now when I buy gold it's actually going to the company, instead of gold farmers.  People buy gold, a lot of people.  Saying that it's bad isn't going to stop it from happening... just shows bitterness due your lack of funds... if you could afford it, you would too.

Do you really think that the majority of us who can "afford to buy gold"  through illegal means lack so much self-respect that we would buy gold through illegal means?

 

(By illegal I refer to rules set by the company, I think though there may be a better word to use)

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