Going after sellers on ebay and craigslist is a full time job, it would cost them more to constantly chase down sellers on the auction websites then to just let them be.

Going after individual retellers are easy - cease and desist.

Funny enough have anti piracy stuff made me buy less games, some of the stuff they make annoys me enough to not buy the next game from a publisher.

Why do I have to suffer because some people pirate the games? And if I pirate it myself I get rid of that annoying stuff.

They are peeing on their own feets here, piracy is less of an issue today than it ever was in the 80s, with the C-64 only one game in thousand were pirated, they got that down to every second game in the 90s.

If a company makes me to annyed with anti piracy stuff I just wont play their games, there are other games out there.

And adding microtransactions in games like CIV 5 and DA is just stupid, make an expansions instead. It is another reason I play a mod of CIV IV instead of CIV 5 (Cavemen2cosmos doesn´t look as good but it is more fun and free once I own the original game). 

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by Anireth

And Steam has some really nice deals, yes. But half of that is because the regular price is quite high, especially outside the US, especially in Europe. Some game cost only 10% more, some even 3 times as much (really. $25 vs €60 and similar). The regular price is almost always higher then any other shop, even the pricy ones. And it certainly can't keep up with Amazon or GoG.

That is not quite true, given the exchange rates in question.  Typically, 1.5 to 2 of our dollars equals 1 euro or pound.  

Today I found Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai for 28 US dollars in EBGames, with Box, CD's, Book and Bonus content.  On Steam its 49.99 US dollars. 

But the real killer is this -

I bring it home, instell the steam client (5 mins), client finishes installing and then hangs, eventually kill the process (10 mins),  start the client, create a steam account (5 mins),  install the first 2 disks, 3rd disk install crashes and steam wants to download the rest which is going to take 2 hours (20 minutes). 

So I run the setup again, steam has to validate the installed files, its been validating those files for about 30 minutes, now its sititng on 100% validated doing nothing for the last 20 minutes, I think its locked up... (50 minutes).

This is the most frustrating annoying process, made even worse because I only want to play this non-steam game offline. 

Cancelled the installed and going to try again, I don't hold out much hope.

Edit: Validating locked up again, cancelled.  Uninstalled the game.  Reinstalled the game.  Now Steam has decided (without asking me)  that I need a 3 gig update to play my box game offline. Started at 18:00 its now 22:00 although I did have dinner in between attempts. 3 hours 6 minutes estimated download.

Just a bit of advice. As soon as you deal with all that make SURE you set steam to offline mode. Offline mode for steam simply does not work unless you already had it in offline mode. If you had steam in online mode and turn your computer off, when you go to play the game next time you turn the comp on steam will require you to connect to the net. If you for some reason do not have internet you are simply screwed. Steam, nor any games installed on steam will load. However if you already have it on offline mode you should be fine. Just tell it to stay in offline mode.

You can also update the following lines in your Steam.cfg file to prevent it checking for or requiring internet access:

BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable
ForceOfflineMode=enable

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by Anireth

And Steam has some really nice deals, yes. But half of that is because the regular price is quite high, especially outside the US, especially in Europe. Some game cost only 10% more, some even 3 times as much (really. $25 vs €60 and similar). The regular price is almost always higher then any other shop, even the pricy ones. And it certainly can't keep up with Amazon or GoG.

That is not quite true, given the exchange rates in question.  Typically, 1.5 to 2 of our dollars equals 1 euro or pound.  

Today I found Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai for 28 US dollars in EBGames, with Box, CD's, Book and Bonus content.  On Steam its 49.99 US dollars. 

But the real killer is this -

I bring it home, instell the steam client (5 mins), client finishes installing and then hangs, eventually kill the process (10 mins),  start the client, create a steam account (5 mins),  install the first 2 disks, 3rd disk install crashes and steam wants to download the rest which is going to take 2 hours (20 minutes). 

So I run the setup again, steam has to validate the installed files, its been validating those files for about 30 minutes, now its sititng on 100% validated doing nothing for the last 20 minutes, I think its locked up... (50 minutes).

This is the most frustrating annoying process, made even worse because I only want to play this non-steam game offline. 

Cancelled the installed and going to try again, I don't hold out much hope.

Edit: Validating locked up again, cancelled.  Uninstalled the game.  Reinstalled the game.  Now Steam has decided (without asking me)  that I need a 3 gig update to play my box game offline. Started at 18:00 its now 22:00 although I did have dinner in between attempts. 3 hours 6 minutes estimated download.

Just a bit of advice. As soon as you deal with all that make SURE you set steam to offline mode. Offline mode for steam simply does not work unless you already had it in offline mode. If you had steam in online mode and turn your computer off, when you go to play the game next time you turn the comp on steam will require you to connect to the net. If you for some reason do not have internet you are simply screwed. Steam, nor any games installed on steam will load. However if you already have it on offline mode you should be fine. Just tell it to stay in offline mode.

only one problem with that steam does not stay in offline mode you have to be online to go offline which defeats the purpose of offline mode if i restart my comp i have to tell it to go offline after i log in regardless even if i have done it before steam is crap they know it we know now why they just wont admit it idk

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by Anireth

And Steam has some really nice deals, yes. But half of that is because the regular price is quite high, especially outside the US, especially in Europe. Some game cost only 10% more, some even 3 times as much (really. $25 vs €60 and similar). The regular price is almost always higher then any other shop, even the pricy ones. And it certainly can't keep up with Amazon or GoG.

That is not quite true, given the exchange rates in question.  Typically, 1.5 to 2 of our dollars equals 1 euro or pound.  

Today I found Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai for 28 US dollars in EBGames, with Box, CD's, Book and Bonus content.  On Steam its 49.99 US dollars. 

But the real killer is this -

I bring it home, instell the steam client (5 mins), client finishes installing and then hangs, eventually kill the process (10 mins),  start the client, create a steam account (5 mins),  install the first 2 disks, 3rd disk install crashes and steam wants to download the rest which is going to take 2 hours (20 minutes). 

So I run the setup again, steam has to validate the installed files, its been validating those files for about 30 minutes, now its sititng on 100% validated doing nothing for the last 20 minutes, I think its locked up... (50 minutes).

This is the most frustrating annoying process, made even worse because I only want to play this non-steam game offline. 

Cancelled the installed and going to try again, I don't hold out much hope.

Edit: Validating locked up again, cancelled.  Uninstalled the game.  Reinstalled the game.  Now Steam has decided (without asking me)  that I need a 3 gig update to play my box game offline. Started at 18:00 its now 22:00 although I did have dinner in between attempts. 3 hours 6 minutes estimated download.

Just a bit of advice. As soon as you deal with all that make SURE you set steam to offline mode. Offline mode for steam simply does not work unless you already had it in offline mode. If you had steam in online mode and turn your computer off, when you go to play the game next time you turn the comp on steam will require you to connect to the net. If you for some reason do not have internet you are simply screwed. Steam, nor any games installed on steam will load. However if you already have it on offline mode you should be fine. Just tell it to stay in offline mode.

You can also update the following lines in your Steam.cfg file to prevent it checking for or requiring internet access:

BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable
ForceOfflineMode=enable

 

tried that steam wont allow you to do so without invalidating your account and whats more is the client will repair and replace that cfg file as soon as you start up steam  unless there is no internet

Originally posted by Loke666

Funny enough have anti piracy stuff made me buy less games, some of the stuff they make annoys me enough to not buy the next game from a publisher.

Why do I have to suffer because some people pirate the games? And if I pirate it myself I get rid of that annoying stuff.

They are peeing on their own feets here, piracy is less of an issue today than it ever was in the 80s, with the C-64 only one game in thousand were pirated, they got that down to every second game in the 90s.

If a company makes me to annyed with anti piracy stuff I just wont play their games, there are other games out there.

And adding microtransactions in games like CIV 5 and DA is just stupid, make an expansions instead. It is another reason I play a mod of CIV IV instead of CIV 5 (Cavemen2cosmos doesn´t look as good but it is more fun and free once I own the original game). 

well thing is though in the 80's you didnt have piracy at all i mean you want a game you had to physically steal it now you can obtain  same game digitally

now its just about the money everyone back then thought games were for children but then they realized how much money parents spend on thier children so we have greedy game companies

i  pirated 98% of the games i currently own. Try before ya buy is my motto. If i wouldnt have tried these games, i probally wouldnt have bought them. These games are ALL on steam currently and i like steam, no more scratched dvd and your games out the window, with steam you can just redownload it. Plus you can trade games you have extra of for others games you may want off of other members of steam.  He says steam is bad, I say steam is great and helped gain alot of sales to games that most likely wouldnt have gotten many sales. to each their own opnion

Originally posted by joker007mo

You can also update the following lines in your Steam.cfg file to prevent it checking for or requiring internet access:

BootStrapperInhibitAll=enable
ForceOfflineMode=enable

 

tried that steam wont allow you to do so without invalidating your account and whats more is the client will repair and replace that cfg file as soon as you start up steam  unless there is no internet

Yes that is the point, as far as I am aware.  That config is to be used when you don't have internet.  If you don't have internet, just pull out your ethernet cable or I guess diable your wireless card if wireless and it should work.  If you trying this with internet, just use offline mode. 

Originally posted by joker007mo

Originally posted by xenogias

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by Anireth

And Steam has some really nice deals, yes. But half of that is because the regular price is quite high, especially outside the US, especially in Europe. Some game cost only 10% more, some even 3 times as much (really. $25 vs €60 and similar). The regular price is almost always higher then any other shop, even the pricy ones. And it certainly can't keep up with Amazon or GoG.

That is not quite true, given the exchange rates in question.  Typically, 1.5 to 2 of our dollars equals 1 euro or pound.  

Today I found Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai for 28 US dollars in EBGames, with Box, CD's, Book and Bonus content.  On Steam its 49.99 US dollars. 

But the real killer is this -

I bring it home, instell the steam client (5 mins), client finishes installing and then hangs, eventually kill the process (10 mins),  start the client, create a steam account (5 mins),  install the first 2 disks, 3rd disk install crashes and steam wants to download the rest which is going to take 2 hours (20 minutes). 

So I run the setup again, steam has to validate the installed files, its been validating those files for about 30 minutes, now its sititng on 100% validated doing nothing for the last 20 minutes, I think its locked up... (50 minutes).

This is the most frustrating annoying process, made even worse because I only want to play this non-steam game offline. 

Cancelled the installed and going to try again, I don't hold out much hope.

Edit: Validating locked up again, cancelled.  Uninstalled the game.  Reinstalled the game.  Now Steam has decided (without asking me)  that I need a 3 gig update to play my box game offline. Started at 18:00 its now 22:00 although I did have dinner in between attempts. 3 hours 6 minutes estimated download.

Just a bit of advice. As soon as you deal with all that make SURE you set steam to offline mode. Offline mode for steam simply does not work unless you already had it in offline mode. If you had steam in online mode and turn your computer off, when you go to play the game next time you turn the comp on steam will require you to connect to the net. If you for some reason do not have internet you are simply screwed. Steam, nor any games installed on steam will load. However if you already have it on offline mode you should be fine. Just tell it to stay in offline mode.

only one problem with that steam does not stay in offline mode you have to be online to go offline which defeats the purpose of offline mode if i restart my comp i have to tell it to go offline after i log in regardless even if i have done it before steam is crap they know it we know now why they just wont admit it idk

If you log out in offline mode you will log in the same way.  So just log out in offline mode and you can play without internet since it will log you back in in that mode.

Originally posted by Drakxii

Gamming companies are idiots.   The goal should be to sell as many copies at possible, not stop piracy.   Piracy doesn't cost you anything, making shit DRM that turns away poeple that would have bought your game does. 

but but, the execs have to drink their highballs, drive their yachts, and utterly destroy their game title just to make a quick buck. (and then sit up there and tell the rest of the gaming community that there's nothing wrong with their business practice and to go play something else if they don't like it) 

at least that's what i'm seeing is greed. Anyone else? James Ohlen and Greg Street anyone?

People can argue whether or not DRM works to combat piracy until they are blue in the face.  Here's the fact though: I avoid games with DRM.  That means companies don't get my money for their products because of the DRM they place on it, which is no different from me pirating it, as far as their profit/loss column is concerned.  What that also does in some cases is ensure that I stay away from all of their other titles, just on principle (hello, Ubisoft -- goodbye, Ubisoft).  Occasionally I'll still end up with DRM laden software because I didn't do my homework and bought a game too eagerly.  Score one for the asshole DRM pushers.  But that's my bad.  My failure for not checking out what I was buying.  Case in point:  Batman: Arkham Asylum.

I bought B:AA a couple of months ago on sale at Steam, but only fired it up a few days ago.  And what do I find but three forms of DRM on that game:  Steam (which I was expecting), GFWL and some third-party DRM with installation limits.  So to play that game, I need to have accounts for and be logged into two different services, then I have to remember when I'm done, that this game also needs to have it's stupid license revoked when I uninstall it.  So while they did catch me on this game, they absolutely won't on any of the DLC, nor on the Arkham City sequel or any of it's DLC -- and there's a shit ton of DLC.  Also, I'm now wary of that company and I'll be sure to steer clear of them in the future.  They won't get me twice.

And through all of this, the actual pirates are merrily downloading and playing DRM free versions of the game.  Free of install limits and that wretched GFWL.  So congrats.  You've slowed the pirates up by maybe a week or so while they figured out how to crack your game, and ensured that a legitimate customer, someone who was willing and happy to give you money for your work, never will again. 

Now tell me how well DRM is working to combat piracy.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

Can you list or link to the titles or States where that isn't true?

Link

"Under the court’s decision in Vernor, all a copyright owner has to do to effectively repeal the statutory first sale doctrine is draft a EULA that (1) specifies that the user is granted a license; (2) significantly restricts the user’s ability to transfer the software; and (3) imposes notable use restrictions. Sad to say, it’s about as easy as falling off a log."

They were used copies that he was selling. You kinda left out that part, Ikon. ;)

 

To explain it further so that others don't have to wade through legalese and court docs:

 

A guy had legitimate copies of AutoCAD 14. He then bought the Upgrade Version of AutoCAD 15 and installed them with AutoCAD 14 as the qualifying software. He then sold the used AutoCAD 14 software - used software, currently licensed to him - to Tim Vernor, who then proceeded to try to sell it on eBay.

"I can tell you one thing that I do know, in NSW, Australia, when I walk into a store and purchase software, I can legally resell that software on Ebay, in the paper, at a garage sale.

I can tell you another thing that I do know, that that is not necessarily the case were I in the United States"

Ikon's representation of the scenario leaves out each of those key points because his argument completely falls apart when all the facts are present. There is nothing illegal in any State in America about walking into a store, puchasing software and reselling it.

 

 

Annemarie Bridy - "Under the court’s decision in Vernor, all a copyright owner has to do to effectively repeal the statutory first sale doctrine is draft a EULA that (1) specifies that the user is granted a license; (2) significantly restricts the user’s ability to transfer the software; and (3) imposes notable use restrictions. Sad to say, it’s about as easy as falling off a log."

Professor Annemarie Bridy BA MA PH.D JD - Professor Bridy specializes in Internet and intellectual property law, with specific attention to the impact of disruptive technologies on existing frameworks for the protection of intellectual property and the enforcement of intellectual property rights.

First sale doctrine, this means brand new software as well as 2nd hand software.

Copypasta of the same article by one person over and over doesn't change the fact that you are leaving out facts in order to prove your point, nor does it make your claim highlighted above any less false. Posting her list of degrees also doesn't change anything, but such a desperate move indicates you're starting to realize you made an absurd claim and we're only a post or two away from the backpeddling.

"when I walk into a store and purchase software, I can legally resell that software on Ebay, in the paper, at a garage sale.

I can tell you another thing that I do know, that that is not necessarily the case were I in the United States"

The highlighted sentence is false. It has already been explained to you why it is false and why the one example you keep posting over and over is flawed.

"First sale doctrine, this means brand new software as well as 2nd hand software."

No one has questioned that in this thread. Ever. You don't understand the terms. You don't understand the difference between the license and the physical product. We're at an impasse. Read up and we'll talk more.

I may have to babyspeak it to you.  The professor says in her article that a software company in the US can now take steps to have an EULA prevent you from reselling ANY software, whether you bought it from the shop 5 minutes ago, or got it at a garage sale. 

I have no reason to doubt her, given her profession, professorship and specialities. 

Given that a US developer can take steps to "repeal the statutory first sale doctrine" you have no garantee in the US that when you buy software that you will be able to resell it at all, even if its brand new.

Its not rocket science.

Hi guys,

Shutting down the thread because now it's less about conversation/used games/etc and has waded over into a policy and ethics discussion.