Originally posted by Caldrin

Origigiven fight.

Thats the same with nearly any game that allows you to customize skills and stats.. there usually ends up being a few best builds..

It will end up being the same in gw2..

I have tried to do the same analysis for GW2, but it is not as simple. This is because different classes have different group-synergistic choices, and the way the buff-debuff system works in GW2 actually allows an enormous variety of different group combinations that do radically different things.

In TSW there is only 1 class, and no group-synergistic mechanics beyond a very small 4-pronged buff-debuff meta.

Check how buffs/debuffs display and work in TSW and you will see what I mean by this.

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Tera combat is far, far better, and much more skill based than TSW - and despite being action based, still had more hotkeys/abilities, even as a Lancer despite the fact that you spent 80% of your time blocking.

I disagree.  I had 2 major issues with Tera's combat system (well 3 if you count the overly sexualised animations... but some might count that as an advantage).

1) The game locked you in place when using a lot of abilities. It wasn't true action combat if you have to stand still to cast a spell or swing a sword.

2) Latency had a major effect on combat.  I play from South Australia so I have a constant high latency to any game on a US based server (minimum of 230 latency to US west coast servers).

Throw in a terrible, boring story and questing system and the unattractive character design and general feel of the game and I didn't last long with it.  It was an enjoyable enough holiday game, but not really worth playing.

I agree with you on those 2 points. I didn't like the rooting in place, but it had to be done that way as the entire metagame of positioning in Tera relied on it. Also, the fact that latency punished you in Tera just like it does in FPS kind of shows that it does involve a lot of twitch skill, which good hotbar MMOs should also do (WoW did, GW2 does, bad MMOs like SWTOR and WAR didn't and TSW won't either due to the spongyness of controls).

I also didn't like the sexualisation of children in Tera. So maniy anime fans kept insisting that the Elin were "a supernatural race of fairies" and whatnot, but it's pretty obvious what they are and it's not like we don't know that Asian audiences are into that sort of thing.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originat system is as good as any of those, then it means you haven't played any of the others to any level of competence to make a proper judgement on the matter.

LOL 6 years, that it?

I find TSW is by far the most customizationable ( Not sure if I spelled that right ) game in regards to character advancement, I've been playing MMORPGS since 1997 and then even before that MUDS and afew other games , so it does'nt matter if you have 6 years or 50 years of gaming everyone has their own likes/dislikes and me personaly, I found TSW to be extremely refreshing , much better combat that WoW and shall I say? GW2 THERE I SAID IT! LOL

So bottom line I agree with Caldrin and disagree with you.

 

You can tell you're not very good at working out metagames.

TSW looks complex on the surface, but it's actually very simple for people who understand the underlying mathematics and systems behind hotbar MMOs with buff/debuff types.

There are 2 weapons for 2 sets of combo points, 4 debuff types, and basic synergies. That is all there is.

Take away the glittery wheel, get down to brass tacks on the synergies, and you realise that it has actually very little customisation, and will end up in a handful of best builds for every situation.

This is because you will only ever have 7/7 that you can actually use in a given fight.

You can say all day everday till your blue in the face it doesnt mean you're right.

If you think TSW isnt complex then you either are an Analyticical Engineer or are fooling only your self.  I assure you the complexity of this system has not even begun to be metagamed out and wont be for a very long time.

You say the 7/7 limits you when in all truthfulness it prohibits the sort of things that has made other MMO combat systems more cumbersome, easy, and narrow with a plethora of options, a Mage in WoW, or a Trooper in SWTOR had access to the same skillset so his combat was all about button mashing whereas you are limited "for a reason" in TSW.  Yea that certain attack might be good now, but what happens when you come across mobs such as Vampires in translyvania who grow in size and gain health for every affliction you place on them?  All of a sudden that entire Blades/Blood deck you've been playing with through 3 zones is null.  You have to look at the greater picture cause not every mob will "just fall down to your barrage of skills" liek every other MMO out there.  Specialization will limit you greatly in TSW and because of the limited skill deck system you can not jsut build a one size fits all deck to tackle any given situation.  This is the strength and beauty of the system and if you still think that isnt complex then your hopeless and our conversation is finished.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by Caldrin

Origigiven fight.

Thats the same with nearly any game that allows you to customize skills and stats.. there usually ends up being a few best builds..

It will end up being the same in gw2..

 

I have tried to do the same analysis for GW2, but it is not as simple. This is because different classes have different group-synergistic choices, and the way the buff-debuff system works in GW2 actually allows an enormous variety of different group combinations that do radically different things.

In TSW there is only 1 class, and no group-synergistic mechanics beyond a very small 4-pronged buff-debuff meta.

Check how buffs/debuffs display and work in TSW and you will see what I mean by this.

Tell you the truth i really dont want to analyse the games i play too much, the main thing for me is that I have fun.. I have fun playing TSW.. so im happy sure its not perfect in every way possible.. but fun is fun :)

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originat system is as good as any of those, then it means you haven't played any of the others to any level of competence to make a proper judgement on the matter.

LOL 6 years, that it?

I find TSW is by far the most customizationable ( Not sure if I spelled that right ) game in regards to character advancement, I've been playing MMORPGS since 1997 and then even before that MUDS and afew other games , so it does'nt matter if you have 6 years or 50 years of gaming everyone has their own likes/dislikes and me personaly, I found TSW to be extremely refreshing , much better combat that WoW and shall I say? GW2 THERE I SAID IT! LOL

So bottom line I agree with Caldrin and disagree with you.

 

You can tell you're not very good at working out metagames.

TSW looks complex on the surface, but it's actually very simple for people who understand the underlying mathematics and systems behind hotbar MMOs with buff/debuff types.

There are 2 weapons for 2 sets of combo points, 4 debuff types, and basic synergies. That is all there is.

Take away the glittery wheel, get down to brass tacks on the synergies, and you realise that it has actually very little customisation, and will end up in a handful of best builds for every situation.

This is because you will only ever have 7/7 that you can actually use in a given fight.

You can say all day everday till your blue in the face it doesnt mean you're right.

 

If you think TSW isnt complex then you either are an Analyticical Engineer or are fooling only your self.  I assure you the complexity of this system has not even begun to be metagamed out and wont be for a very long time.

 

You say the 7/7 limits you when in all truthfulness it prohibits the sort of things that has made other MMO combat systems more cumbersome, easy, and narrow with a plethora of options, a Mage in WoW, or a Trooper in SWTOR had access to the same skillset so his combat was all about button mashing whereas you are limited "for a reason" in TSW.  Yea that certain attack might be good now, but what happens when you come across mobs such as Vampires in translyvania who grow in size and gain health for every affliction you place on them?  All of a sudden that entire Blades/Blood deck you've been playing with through 3 zones is null.  You have to look at the greater picture cause not every mob will "just fall down to your barrage of skills" liek every other MMO out there.  Specialization will limit you greatly in TSW and because of the limited skill deck system you can not jsut build a one size fits all deck to tackle any given situation.  This is the strength and beauty of the system and if you still think that isnt complex then your hopeless and our conversation is finished.

Yeah, if you think that it takes being an analytical engineer to work out MMO metagames, it means you're either not spending any energy on thinking, or not able to understand closed systems which are frankly quite small and limited compared to the vast complexity of actual sciences or economics etc.

I'm not talking about making the simulationcraft spreadsheets here, just about sitting down with a cup of tea and just reading the system to work out the basic ways the abilities and passives work. It is not difficult and does not take very long at all.

MMOs are not poetry, they are mathematics.

TSW is one of the simplest, most basic mathematical metagames out there despite its seeming complexity, and that is because of the 7/7 system and the 4-prong condition/cc system.

The limited number of abilities makes all the potential complexities from the overall system moot, since you can't access them simultaneously.

Again, if you are fooled by the cosmetic differences, that's really on you for not thinking clearly enough.

Here is what the "wheel" really is:

PISTOL -------------------------------------- HAMMER

A    B ---------------------------------------- A        B

PISTOL TIer 2 ----------------------------- Hammer Tier 2

A B C D E F ------------------------------ A B C D E F

When you realise you can only ever use 7 things from the wheel at the same time, you realise that once damage numbers have been calculated the variety and complexity of builds drops to zero.

As for the example you use with the vampires, that's no different from raid mobs in Molten Core being immune / taking reduced damage from Fire abiliites. It means you are just forced to respec to frost. It actually limits player choice for arbitrary reasons and players don't like that.

1. The huge complexity of combat is/was not the strong point of this title. TERA is ----> that way. Frankly i am not looking forward to a community of button mashers leet pvp kids and i'm very happy about that.

2. The reason that most MMO's (and generally games) tend to offer a high selection of skills to chose from but only just a few to be active skills is not random. That's how many peple feel comfortable to accomodate with. Diablo 3 - 6 skills. GW2 - 8 skills was it? TSW - 7 active skills. A limited number of skills and situational awareness seems to be the trend now. If you build a game around obtaining maximum efficiency by using 15 different skills then you are actually forcing your playerbase to play at that level - means people being excluded from instance runs, raids, pvp because using 15 buttons is too much for them and automatically they are not efficient. It might be a good idea on a tiered item-raid progression game like WoW, but TSW does not seem aimed in that direction.

3. The skills "feel" the same, you get the same results - well, if they'd make one/some combinations way stronger, then the whine would be about how strong that one is, cookie cutter, flavor of the month etc. If they balance the skills it seems also wrong. At least they brought some differences with Afflicted, Hindered, Weakened, Impaired etc. Will there be "best" combinations? Yes there will be. It happens in every MMO. Fortunately, there will also be counters to each of those "best" combinations.

4. The only thing that bothers me is the "lack of contact", the visuals, it does not always feel like i'm hitting my target. Yea, this might need a bit of work.

For the super-leet people able to keybind 15 things and efficiently use them: there are games with a lot of buttons to press. I've played Anarchy Online for like 5 years. I used ~9 active attacks and around 15 long term buffs. It's still running and it is an excellent game. You will not find more customization in any game on the market, i can guarantee you that.

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

Originally posted by Aeolron

Originally posted by Vutar

Originally posted by Maitrader

Originally posted by azmundai

 

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Originally posted by Dominionlord
great combat =great game? TERA?

---

 

speaking personally the last thing I would say about tera's combat is great.

 

Definitely tons more fun in compatlrisoj to GW2 combat.. just sayin..

 

Wait, you think GW2 combat is bad but that TSW combat is good? Wow...

ok not taking sides here but, TSW at least you have to hit your abilities your builders ect to keep on top of a fight, GW2 just hit 1 then 2-4 repeat, do I find that borring? No but alot of others will

i would like to see you on sPvP on GW2. will be so easy to kill, players that only spam skills are very easy to spot and are always the first we aim to kill since they will die in 10s or less. 

TSW have lot of great things combat/animation obvious isnt strong of game. create personal builds is great but combat itself is just "mehh"  IMO.  still i prefer it  than any WoW clone combat system, just tired of them

Considering that GW2 combat is FAR from perfect FAR! , ya you can hit those buttons , switch weapon sets and move left to right, dodge here and there, but honestly the combat is the same old boring garbage that almost every mmo has, so yes I am saying it, GW2 combat with animations is sub par at best and needs ALOT of work including the pathing on some of the abilities, If I want a true PvP game I'll wait for PS2 where that is real skill. People talk so highly of GW2 and badly of TSW mostly on tab targetting bad animations, yet they need to look in the mirror, because the very things that they complain about in TSW is the same thing in GW2.

 

[mod edit]

TSW and GW2 combat are very diferent, anyone try both can see the huge diference. both have tab target and dodge, this dont make the combat similar. 

is like saying if WoW add dodge bar suddenly the combat system will be equal to TSW or GW2.

BTW no one have say GW2 is perfect, perfection dont exist....

Originally posted by simmihi

1. The huge complexity of combat is/was not the strong point of this title. TERA is ----> that way. Frankly i am not looking forward to a community of button mashers leet pvp kids and i'm very happy about that.

 

2. The reason that most MMO's (and generally games) tend to offer a high selection of skills to chose from but only just a few to be active skills is not random. That's how many peple feel comfortable to accomodate with. Diablo 3 - 6 skills. GW2 - 8 skills was it? TSW - 7 active skills. A limited number of skills and situational awareness seems to be the trend now. If you build a game around obtaining maximum efficiency by using 15 different skills then you are actually forcing your playerbase to play at that level - means people being excluded from instance runs, raids, pvp because using 15 buttons is too much for them and automatically they are not efficient. It might be a good idea on a tiered item-raid progression game like WoW, but TSW does not seem aimed in that direction.

 

3. The skills "feel" the same, you get the same results - well, if they'd make one/some combinations way stronger, then the whine would be about how strong that one is, cookie cutter, flavor of the month etc. If they balance the skills it seems also wrong. At least they brought some differences with Afflicted, Hindered, Weakened, Impaired etc. Will there be "best" combinations? Yes there will be. It happens in every MMO. Fortunately, there will also be counters to each of those "best" combinations.

 

4. The only thing that bothers me is the "lack of contact", the visuals, it does not always feel like i'm hitting my target. Yea, this might need a bit of work.

 

For the super-leet people able to keybind 15 things and efficiently use them: there are games with a lot of buttons to press. I've played Anarchy Online for like 5 years. I used ~9 active attacks and around 15 long term buffs. It's still running and it is an excellent game. You will not find more customization in any game on the market, i can guarantee you that.

A player in GW2 has at least 15 abilities at all times, and several classes have more (elementalists). A basic WoW class will require an average of 20 hotkeys to play competently, and I'm lowballing here, to play a class well in a setting like arena you will need 30+. SWTOR averaged out at 20 as well, as does Rift.

15 hotkeys is actually a fairly low number, and GW2 is considered "streamlined". If you can't keybind at least that, it means you're just uncoodinated. 

7 is just too low. It limits gameplay to a simplistic, basic format in TSW.

MOBAs are not like MMOs, their complexity lies in group synergies, positional combat and upgrade paths. Your character in a MOBA has a short shelf life and no persistence just like a FPS or RTS match, MMOs are the exact opposite of this.

When you have a game like a MMO where you play a fixed long-term char for extended periods of time, you need more complexity to give to the player, since he won't be switching up his load-out every 15 mins.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

A basic WoW class will require an average of 20 hotkeys to play competently, and I'm lowballing here, to play a class well in a setting like arena you will need 30+

Ok, i'm raiding with an arcane mage, PvE raiding. What should i hotkey? Waiting for 20 answers.

You missed the point btw. I don't want to play GW2 for its W v W v W (that's the endgame, right?), i have played WoW and Rift and i've used far less keybinds while still being very efficient. I don't feel the "need" to have 15+ keybinds to enjoy the game. There are loads of people like me, despite what you "leet" players think. Thanks for the namecalling tho. 

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by simmihi
 

 

A player in GW2 has at least 15 abilities at all times, and several classes have more (elementalists). A basic WoW class will require an average of 20 hotkeys to play competently, and I'm lowballing here, to play a class well in a setting like arena you will need 30+. SWTOR averaged out at 20 as well, as does Rift.

15 hotkeys is actually a fairly low number, and GW2 is considered "streamlined". If you can't keybind at least that, it means you're just uncoodinated. 

7 is just too low. It limits gameplay to a simplistic, basic format in TSW.

MOBAs are not like MMOs, their complexity lies in group synergies, positional combat and upgrade paths. Your character in a MOBA has a short shelf life and no persistence just like a FPS or RTS match, MMOs are the exact opposite of this.

When you have a game like a MMO where you play a fixed long-term char for extended periods of time, you need more complexity to give to the player, since he won't be switching up his load-out every 15 mins.

Some people like to have many abilities, some don't. Saying one is better than the other is pretty subjective. I like not having that many abilities to keep track off in midst of battle. Call me slow or old. I find that being limited to 7 active abilities (and 7 passives) makes it hard for me to chose what abilities to pick. I have to focus on a small(er) area to be good at while being less good at other areas. At the same times each of these things i focus on can be countered, so there will really be no end-all-be-all build.

Originally posted by simmihi

Originally posted by Greyhooff

A basic WoW class will require an average of 20 hotkeys to play competently, and I'm lowballing here, to play a class well in a setting like arena you will need 30+

Ok, i'm raiding with an arcane mage, PvE raiding. What should i hotkey? Waiting for 20 answers.

You missed the point btw. I don't want to play GW2 for its W v W v W (that's the endgame, right?), i have played WoW and Rift and i've used far less keybinds while still being very efficient. I don't feel the "need" to have 15+ keybinds to enjoy the game. There are loads of people like me, despite what you "leet" players think. Thanks for the namecalling tho. 

I have RL friends who play WoW and use 4-5 hotkeys and click the rest. There are indeed a lot of players like them.

I call them "Facebook players" - people who just play for fun and socialising, and these are close friends of mine, so I am very honest to them. I have seen them play and they are very unskilled, very slow, and it's fine for them because they don't prioritise being good at the game, they just want to see the areas and do some quests.

It's ok to be a bad player, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be under any illusions. Don't pretend you can be even slightly good at WoW without around 20+ hotkeys, it's just not true.

Even arcane mages to do top DPS need to hotkey over 12 abilities. The conception that arcane mages are faceroll is correct, as they do have less hotkeys than other classes, but even they have more abilites than you can have in TSW.

If arcane mage gameplay with 12+ hotkeys is considered braindead faceroll, then what is TSW?

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by simmihi

Originally posted by Greyhooff

A basic WoW class will require an average of 20 hotkeys to play competently, and I'm lowballing here, to play a class well in a setting like arena you will need 30+

Ok, i'm raiding with an arcane mage, PvE raiding. What should i hotkey? Waiting for 20 answers.

You missed the point btw. I don't want to play GW2 for its W v W v W (that's the endgame, right?), i have played WoW and Rift and i've used far less keybinds while still being very efficient. I don't feel the "need" to have 15+ keybinds to enjoy the game. There are loads of people like me, despite what you "leet" players think. Thanks for the namecalling tho. 

 

I have RL friends who play WoW and use 4-5 hotkeys and click the rest. There are indeed a lot of players like them.

I call them "Facebook players" - people who just play for fun and socialising, and these are close friends of mine, so I am very honest to them. I have seen them play and they are very unskilled, very slow, and it's fine for them because they don't prioritise being good at the game, they just want to see the areas and do some quests.

It's ok to be a bad player, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't be under any illusions. Don't pretend you can be even slightly good at WoW without around 20+ hotkeys, it's just not true.

Even arcane mages to do top DPS need to hotkey over 12 abilities. The conception that arcane mages are faceroll is correct, as they do have less hotkeys than other classes, but even they have more abilites than you can have in TSW.

If arcane mage gameplay with 12+ hotkeys is considered braindead faceroll, then what is TSW?

Haha yes believe it or not some people play mmos to have fun and relax with friends.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

If arcane mage gameplay with 12+ hotkeys is considered braindead faceroll, then what is TSW?

Not the same game, and evidently not for you people who have the need to take 3 decisions per second in order to feel good at a game. I do not know if i am good at WoW, i've played a resto druid and i used around 15 hotkeys, but i would have enjoyed it more if the game did not force me to do that. There are lots of games which do, fortunately, and you named a few. Can you guys just let it go, play those games where you feel good about the things you want (combat) and let the rest of us enjoy it for what it is? We like it exactly because it is different. The fact that the way combat is done does not cater for button mashers and action-players is a Good thing for us, uncoordinated bad players as you call us. 

The need to post here feels like "i'm leet but the game does not let me be and feel leet because there's only 7 buttons and i cannot show off how leet i am, they should re-think this". Again, there are lots of games who cater for this kind of players, TSW seems not to be one of them and for once i am glad it is not.

I already had wrote in my first preview over TSW that the combat needs lots of work and I still have the same opinion.

It's really beyond me on how people can say that the TSW or Terra has a better combat system than GW2 when the following differences are there:

TSW

- you run into a zombies infested place, the zombies are running to you as if they had pushed the "turbo mode" button and are glued on your body no matter how you move, biting you 24/7 till they are dead.

- No dodging possible, not a possibility to put them away since they are too fast and are glued on your body as if they were your second skin.

So the only difference I saw was some other mobs that were indeed slower and placed markers so you knew a aoe attack is coming so you could move out of the way.

That's what mainly made the combat system less enjoyable to me. It destroys the perfectly fitting atmosphere the game is surrounded with.

Terra

As a mystic (I admit I didn't played other classes after that)

- aim the target, use skill 1, use skill 2, either use skill 3 or wait for the enemy that is in range for a melee attack in the meantime to start charging a attack, use the dodge skill so the mystic jumps back, then use one of your other skills again without the need to aim ever again.

- Rinse and repeat against every enemy and you are done.

You can give someone as many skills as you want, they aren't needed for the most part cause even the basic skills that are getting stronger overtime can do the job 24/7.

Just do the same sequence over and over and that's it cause the poor AI will fall for it everytime anyway

GW2

- you can auto aim in which your character gets locked to a enemy and use your first skill

IF you are in a proper range the attack will repeat, if not it will interrupt and you will have to either move closer or use a other skill.

- you can either tab or just change your viewing direction to get into a new enemy

- you can actively dodge up to 2-3 times (depending on your endurance and level), switch skillset on the fly while in battle and keep a healthy distance through movement for the most part.

- the enemies AI is trying to use their advantages against you instead of playing "dumb" the whole time and they switch their focus if need be

- you can play any role in a battle cause you are not a class that can do only what it is "supposed and expected to do".

- you can actively change or mix up your skills by just switching weapons and additional skills at any time(even while in a battle)

- enemies shows you what pain is instead of just being glued on you biting you while you are killing them with np at all (TSW) or by just moving in front of you trying to charge a attack the whole time, giving you the opportunity to get out of range and kill them again and again (Terra) easily.

So I would say to it's, it's own but that's how I felt about these 3 games battle systems.

You can tell I disliked both TSWs and Terras because of the reasons I pointed out.

The GW2 system gives me personaly more to do,  is more action based and the enemies are not just cannon fooder but rather challenging for the most part.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by simmihi

<snip>

 

A player in GW2 has at least 15 abilities at all times, and several classes have more (elementalists). A basic WoW class will require an average of 20 hotkeys to play competently, and I'm lowballing here, to play a class well in a setting like arena you will need 30+. SWTOR averaged out at 20 as well, as does Rift.

15 hotkeys is actually a fairly low number, and GW2 is considered "streamlined". If you can't keybind at least that, it means you're just uncoodinated. 

7 is just too low. It limits gameplay to a simplistic, basic format in TSW.

MOBAs are not like MMOs, their complexity lies in group synergies, positional combat and upgrade paths. Your character in a MOBA has a short shelf life and no persistence just like a FPS or RTS match, MMOs are the exact opposite of this.

When you have a game like a MMO where you play a fixed long-term char for extended periods of time, you need more complexity to give to the player, since he won't be switching up his load-out every 15 mins.

I'm willing to bet that by your definition, 75% of WOW players are incompetent. I'd be amazed if they regularly use more than 7 skills in general play. And if you're not regularly using skills, you will not remember their keybinds or timings during a high-pressure fight.

I'll bet that the average MMO'er does not really cry because he can't use 15 or 20 skills to kill a mob. He cries if he can't kill the mob in 20 seconds. How many skills he needs to do that is largely irrelevant, in fact, fewer is probably better. He is playing for the joy of combat, he's playing for the joy of the resulting lootbag.

In PVP, if you have a large amount of hotkeyed skills, the person with the best keyboard skills wins. You have to memorize your 20 or 30 keybinds, AND be able to execute them without looking at the keyboard. Your opponent may be able to out think you, but that's irrelevant if he can't hit the right key-combo's at the right moments.

Just using 2 decks in TSW means you have 14 skills and 14 passives in use. One deck for groups and one deck for single targets. That's already a fair amount of variety. 

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Origina

Just using 2 decks in TSW means you have 14 skills and 14 passives in use. One deck for groups and one deck for single targets. That's already a fair amount of variety. 

Can you switch decks on the fly in combat?

No of course not. By that logic, you could count every different spec in there and say that WoW chars have 60+ hotkeys. Stop making up numbers. Stop adding the number of passives, that's like a talent spec, you pick your loadout and that's it.

In TSW, you have 7 buttons for abilities. That is it. 7.

Trying to inflate that number betrays your desire to make TSW seem more complex than it is.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Origina

Just using 2 decks in TSW means you have 14 skills and 14 passives in use. One deck for groups and one deck for single targets. That's already a fair amount of variety. 

 

Can you switch decks on the fly in combat?

No of course not. By that logic, you could count every different spec in there and say that WoW chars have 60+ hotkeys. Stop making up numbers. Stop adding the number of passives, that's like a talent spec, you pick your loadout and that's it.

In TSW, you have 7 buttons for abilities. That is it. 7.

Trying to inflate that number betrays your desire to make TSW seem more complex than it is.

Ah, so you're saying that you once you've gained the "appropriate" 7 skills for your 7 buttons, you'll never need to change them ever in TSW ?

well you cannot just talk the 7 passives away which can add alot to your 7 actives and make them work diffrent.

i had a guy using the exact same loadout for his actives and he sucked completely using the same 2-3 buttons to smash.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

If you think TSW isnt complex then you either are an Analyticical Engineer or 

LOL 

Originally posted by Raekon

TSW

- you run into a zombies infested place, the zombies are running to you as if they had pushed the "turbo mode" button and are glued on your body no matter how you move, biting you 24/7 till they are dead.

- No dodging possible, not a possibility to put them away since they are too fast and are glued on your body as if they were your second skin.

I saw a TSW dev commenting on this and said that just moving and active dodging made you live 33% longer than just standing there. The mobs does continous attacks if you stand still, but get forced into the movement animation if you move. You can't backpedal though, you need to circle strafe.