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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Looking for an old DAOC player's point of view.

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42 posts found
  Setzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/21/05
Posts: 98

6/26/12 6:07:10 PM#21
Originally posted by Saydien

I totally disagree with the people above and state that GW2 for me is nowhere in the same direction than DAoC is despite the WvWvW system seeming rather similar. The way the maps are designed and the combat system in itself for me really GREATLY reduces the fun compared to what I had in DAoC. Though I will add that it really is a matter of taste.

I'll just name a few examples in which area for me GW2 WvWvW is way inferior compared to DAoC RvR:

1.) You pretty much can forget to run with a single group. To capture anything you really need more people than that. In the last build the NPC guards were simply too strong and actually did hurt and kill you if you didn't have the numbers for it. Definitely different than the minor annoyances the DAoC guards were.

And you could do keep takes with a single group in DAoC? I don't remember it being like that. I don't ever remember taking a keep with 5 people or less. If you had less than 5 people and tried to take down a keep lord in DAoC you got steam rolled. At least that's how I remember it....they may have changed things since I stopped playing. This past BWE we took down a keep lord with 6 of us and I consider that to be a fairly small group.  Objectives in WvW or RvR were not designed to be taken by small groups. Why do you think its called WORLD vs. WORLD or REALM vs. REALM? You want to do PvP in a smaller group then go do structured PvP.

2.) The action based combat system with the crowd control that are nothing but mere jokes further makes zerging the only viable thing. I always loved catching groups or even zergs totally unprepared with long roots or mezzes to then pull them apart despite being totally outnumbered. With CCs that only last 3+ seconds there is nothing like that in GW2 what makes such epic experiences pretty unlikely in WvWvW.

Thank God GW2 doesn't have crazy CC like all MMO's do. I loved DAoC but the CC was absolutely ridiculous. AE Mezzes & Snares that lasted over a minute and that could be cast from a mile away.....yeah that makes the game loads of fun! Not having control over your character for more than a minute while your group gets picked apart one by one. Sure, you got RA abilities such as Purge which you could use once every 5min but even if you did pop it you would just get CC'd again and there wasn't diminishing returns. How is PvP fun when you have no control over your character?

3.) Map sizes are way too small encouraging zerging EVEN FURTHER. You can run everywhere on the map in very low time and you see the fights on the map from pretty far away making everyone and their rabbit able to track you down. No way to actually be sneaky and outsmart people like it was so wonderfully possible in DAoC with the awesome big maps.

I'm beginning to think you didn't even try a BWE, just watched videos on YouTube or something. There are 4 pretty big zones for WvW - one for each World and a central zone called the Eternal Battlegrounds. Each of the maps were fairly big in size and depending on where you were fighting, you had quite the trek back to the action if you died. Also, no way of being sneaky? They only designate where the fighting is on the map, not where the enemy is at all times. So, as long as you're not in combat then no one knows where you are. Plenty of opportunity for sneak attacks on keeps.

5.) Back and forth and back and forth yet again. Yawn, really. Another impact of the silly crowd control system is that fights often end in silly back and forth movements of 2 lines of ranged people with often barely anyone dying except the occasional melee suicider. I can't count the times when I just wished for a crowd control system that at least is somewhat closer to DAoC to have more tactical possibilities to nail and actually end fights.

If you're facing another group that is about the same size as your group then shouldn't it be a fairly even fight? Why do we need to have long duration CC be the deciding factor in a fight? "Oh we got the Sorcerer with the bolt range AE Mez. We win!" Stupid. There are plenty of tactical possibilities without the need for CC. There were times over this past BWE where my world would take a keep then another world showed up to try and take it back and we would push them back, then they would come at us again with an even bigger army and finally took the keep from us. People were dying left and right. You do know that everyone can rez each other, right? It keeps the action going if you can get a fellow player up and back into the action.


Those are only some of the major flaws I see in GW2 WvWvW compared to DAoC. I would definitely suggest trying to get into one of the BWEs before buying that game. Comparing GW2 to DAoC for me and all of my former DAoC friends has lead to mostly major disappointments.

Yes, I definitely recommend anyone who loved DAoC to give WvW a shot. I'm sure you'll find it as enjoyable as I did. Once I got to level 5 on my Ranger I went out to WvW and leveled to 14 doing nothing but that. It was a blast and I haven't had that much fun doing PvP since DAoC.

 

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

6/26/12 6:36:17 PM#22

I can't believe people are comparing that dated relic to GW2.

I tried that game and there was nothing redeeming about it. GW2 WvWvW is superior in every single way to DAOC. It even runs better than DAOC FFS.

  User Deleted
6/26/12 10:20:17 PM#23

duplicate post

  User Deleted
6/26/12 10:23:26 PM#24

What made Daoc good

 

1. Big Areas

2. Simple colors

3. Cool enemies

4. Finding a group

5. Scary Dungeons =)

6. Darkness falls

7. Awesome spells and sounds

8. The Druid's Tree summon spell untill they took it away and replaced it with a bear I think

 

 

I bought like 7 copies of this game cause I was so addicted to it and kept breaking the discs =)

I still have one copy in the closet with all the expansions except for the last two.

  Setzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/21/05
Posts: 98

6/26/12 10:36:52 PM#25
Originally posted by Shiotcrock

What made Daoc good

 

1. Big Areas

2. Simple colors

3. Cool enemies

4. Finding a group

5. Scary Dungeons =)

6. Darkness falls

7. Awesome spells and sounds

8. The Druid's Tree summon spell untill they took it away and replaced it with a bear I think

 

 

I bought like 7 copies of this game cause I was so addicted to it and kept breaking the discs =)

I still have one copy in the closet with all the expansions except for the last two.

 

I hope Anet implements their own version of Darkness Falls. =)

  spector_0_0

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 28

6/26/12 10:52:18 PM#26

I think one of the biggest alures (for me) of DAoC PvP was that individual players could really affect the outcome of a fight quite drastically.  I played a Healer (Midgard) and I could single-handedly change the sway of fight with my cc.  Similarly, as an Enchanter, I could wreak devastating PBAoE if my enemies didn't notice my little Lurikeen slip into their group.  As a sorcerer, I could lay waste to clumps of enemies with nasty DoTs.  Each class had real purpose and excelled in various battle tactics.  I guess you could say that each class was "overpowered" in a particular area.  I have no idea what happened beyond Trials of Atlantis, as I stopped playing then.  I know that realm pride was strong, and stealing an enemy's relic was a huge blow to their morale.  Keep seiges were intense no matter if you were defending or attacking.  My days in Midgard on Lancelot were by far some of the most fun I have had in an mmorpg.  I'm hoping that GW2 can help recapture some of the good ol' days.

 

  Saydien

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/03/07
Posts: 264

6/27/12 7:11:06 AM#27


Originally posted by spector_0_0
I think one of the biggest alures (for me) of DAoC PvP was that individual players could really affect the outcome of a fight quite drastically.  I played a Healer (Midgard) and I could single-handedly change the sway of fight with my cc.  Similarly, as an Enchanter, I could wreak devastating PBAoE if my enemies didn't notice my little Lurikeen slip into their group.  As a sorcerer, I could lay waste to clumps of enemies with nasty DoTs.  Each class had real purpose and excelled in various battle tactics.  I guess you could say that each class was "overpowered" in a particular area.  I have no idea what happened beyond Trials of Atlantis, as I stopped playing then.  I know that realm pride was strong, and stealing an enemy's relic was a huge blow to their morale.  Keep seiges were intense no matter if you were defending or attacking.  My days in Midgard on Lancelot were by far some of the most fun I have had in an mmorpg.  I'm hoping that GW2 can help recapture some of the good ol' days.

 


That's pretty much how I feel and what I loved in DAoC back then. If you did your part exceptionally well then it had an impact. I can't see that happen in GW2. The only way to have an huge and exceptional impact on the outcome of a fight probably is by using siege weapons what has absolutely nothing to do with skill.

For me this casual game approach sadly also means that the impact of the individual or a group of 2-5 friends on the outcome of the battles are VERY limited. That in my eyes is what will make quite some of the hardcore PVP people drop the game again rather soon. No rivalry due to being nameless and no feelable impact of individual skill is poison for the dedicated and hardcore PVP crowd.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

6/27/12 9:02:34 AM#28

I'm pretty old, but still haven't gotten a chance to try GW2.  (I hate this pre-purchase for "beta" marketting / milking trend) but that said...

 

I really liked the realm abilities in DAOC.  I liked how they made the level cap into a soft cap, because they were a bit unbalancing.  In both PvE and PvP.  That made them worthwhile, and more importantly FUN.

 

I liked how those realm abilities gave some serious incentive to RvR, that almost all players could get into.  I think that had a lot to do with its popularity.

 

I liked that the different factions felt so different.  Different races, classes, different PvE experiences.. it really felt like going up against other nations, and bolstered the sense of us-vs-them realm pride.

 

So I don't know about WvW, because it lacks some key elements that I thought had a lot to do with making RvR what it was.  I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I'll certainly give it a shot.. but I think there's a good chance I'll end up playing GW2 like just another PvE MMO.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  uidCaustic

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/11
Posts: 148

6/27/12 9:30:41 AM#29
Originally posted by Pravius

Any of us who used to play DAOC can easily argue that it was and could possibly still be the best PvP Mmorpg ever made. 

Let's see how this ideology works.  *clears throat*

Any of us who used to play DAOC can easily argue that it was entertaining for about a week.

Blanket statements are fun!

  MattVid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 407

6/27/12 9:39:38 AM#30
Originally posted by drel

WvWvW reminds me so much of the mega battles we had in DAoC!  And I haven't seen GW2 crash as did DAoC with those massive battles.

I truely enjoy playing GW2 as much as I did DAoC. And I haven't found it as grindy as DAoC could be when you tried to level.

Leveling in GW2 is much easier and fun!

So, give the game a try!

Pretty much this. The only huge difference I feel is that rotating serer match ups every couple weeks. So, if WvWsucks and is unbalanced, in a couple weeks you will be matched up with a new group of servers. I see this as good and bad, but it definitely lacks the persistent feeling that DAoC had.

I also don't know if there are any kind of "Realm Abilities", and there doesn't appear to be any real progression behind WvW, except just experience and karma points. You also get badges that you can trade in for armor, but the gear progression in Guild Wars is never all that intense. I think there could be more rewards and progression in WvW, personally.

As far as the epicness ... it is definitely there, and the game seems more stable as well. We will see how it plays out, but with the 5-10 hours of it I have done, it definitely feels a lot like DAoC from the RvR perspective. The game and strategies are only going to evolve with time and with release. Right now, WvW is pretty disorganized, and mostly feels like a huge PvP Pub match. It will only get more interesting when guilds are actually formed and strategy and organization are more of a factor than it is now.

All I know, is the toys in the sandbox are fun and the scale for epic battles is there. We just have to make it happen!

  Fliara

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/12
Posts: 1

6/27/12 9:53:42 AM#31
Originally posted by Vhaln

I'm pretty old, but still haven't gotten a chance to try GW2.  (I hate this pre-purchase for "beta" marketting / milking trend) but that said...

 

I really liked the realm abilities in DAOC.  I liked how they made the level cap into a soft cap, because they were a bit unbalancing.  In both PvE and PvP.  That made them worthwhile, and more importantly FUN.

 

I liked how those realm abilities gave some serious incentive to RvR, that almost all players could get into.  I think that had a lot to do with its popularity.

 

I liked that the different factions felt so different.  Different races, classes, different PvE experiences.. it really felt like going up against other nations, and bolstered the sense of us-vs-them realm pride.

 

So I don't know about WvW, because it lacks some key elements that I thought had a lot to do with making RvR what it was.  I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I'll certainly give it a shot.. but I think there's a good chance I'll end up playing GW2 like just another PvE MMO.

 

 

That's a hardcore player point of view. You spend a huge amount of time playing a game, so you want to be able to kill noob teams when you get skilled. It's understandable but that's absolutely not fun from a casual point of view. And where it's normal for a single skilled player to kill 1 casual easily (which is possible on Gw2) it s not normal for 1 skilled player to be able to kill 10 casuals alone. Anet doesn't want this kind of stuff and no video game company should want that. When you create a game, it should be to please most of the players and not a minority as hardcores. As a hardcore player myself i understand that it can be frustrating but why should they care? Basing their game on hardcores would prevent many people to play so if they want to sell it, it's a bad idea. Anyway WvW is a massive multiplayer Pvp and you aren't supposed to be able to win it alone. It s a team gameplay and i truly believe that a good small team will be able to make their server progress more than a stupid zergteam. Just watch it that way, it's the beginning so there are only zergs but WvW is a cappoint and splitting judiciously is smarter than staying all together and cap one point after another. When most players'll get that, group strategies and combat will be much more fun. Anyway, not trying to convice anyone to play it. I just know i will :-p
  Redemp

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1054

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

6/27/12 10:56:41 AM#32

 One HUGE difference ... Seige weapons,  every seige weapon in Gw2 is absurd damage. In Daoc the damage was balanced AND ammo was limited.

 

Exspect the Seige experience to be one of the issues that pops up with DAOC vets.

 

  ZigZags

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/23/10
Posts: 334

6/27/12 11:15:29 AM#33

I played DAOC for 3 years and I've Beta Tested GW2 for 2 weekends. I wont be playing GW2 for a couple simple reasons. 1) I can't stand High Fantasy or Steampunk. 2) I can't stand theme park games and GW2 is the EMPEROR of Theme Park Games.

 

Honestly, I thought most people in the MMO Genre were sick of theme parks....Im suprised how popular GW2 is becomming.

 

Now: Skyrim
Later: ?
Played: M59, UO, EQ, Runescape, DAOC, SB, EQ2, WoW, EVE, Darkfall, AoC, FFXI, FFXIV, WAR, SWTOR
BOYCOTTING: EA/BioWare/Origin/SOE

  cronius77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1234

6/27/12 11:21:17 AM#34

I played DAOC for years and IMO it boils down to playstyle if you will like it or not. It lacks to me some of the features that made DAOC such a great game to play. No rivalrys or realm point system , no real power boost on relics as they are just power balls for pvp in GW2 . No nameplates in GW2 WvW just invader etc. There is talk of a bragging and title system going in but as of launch there will be no realm point system so if you like pointless zerging and ganking for no reward and just the fun of it then you will enjoy it. One great feature that GW2 is better then DAOC IMO , every two weeks if your realm is dominating others or losing badly you get rematched to closer servers to your servers progression rate. Im kinda mixed about WvW as I see it getting extreamly boring very very fast and if they do not add some sort of advancement system i highly doubt people will just spend months in it as its WAY faster just to level up doing pve and making money.

  StrixMaxima

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/09
Posts: 883

6/27/12 11:36:29 AM#35

Long time DAoC fan here.

So far, I enjoy GW2 very, very much, especially in the light of the WAR fiasco. It was the first time in a while I managed to have real fun in RvRs (WvWs, here), playing with a small band of people and performing localized tasks, such as Supply Defense while the main forces attacked keeps, pincering enemies, some obfuscation, etc.

All I needed to do to enjoy this was  understanding that GW2 is GW2, and DaoC is (or, better, was) DAoC.

  Pravius

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 72

 
OP  6/27/12 11:44:07 AM#36

Lot's of replies!  Thanks you guys.  I totally understand the nostalgia thing, and I do understand that nothing will bring me back to "that same feeling" like when I used to play DAOC. I mean the way this genre is now there is really nothing that even compares to DAOC, not even close.  I love objective based PvP and not like capture the flag, TDM, etc.  I mean like sieging, coordination, and massive communication to achive a large goal, there is nothing like that feeling when you do. 

I also do miss the feeling of "realm pride".  So many people made fun of DAOC for this but man when I played Midgard, I HATED Albs and Hibs, especially when they would pick on our keeps. But the feeling that we had going out there and defending our own back yard was osmething special, and I hope Guild wars might be able to rekindle that experience even just a little. 

I do not like what PVP games have become, all this competitive 2v2, 3v3 etc.  I did used to run in 8 man groups when playing DAOC but when things were going on (relic raids, keep sieges, etc) I would join the zerg for the good of the realm!

Anyway thanks for all the replies and keep them coming. I would also like to see if we can get a guild together (anyone is welcome) but us old school DAOC vets, <Camelot's Casuality's> maybe? lol anyway super pumped for this, keep the opinions coming!

  Setzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/21/05
Posts: 98

6/27/12 12:17:01 PM#37
Originally posted by ZigZags

I played DAOC for 3 years and I've Beta Tested GW2 for 2 weekends. I wont be playing GW2 for a couple simple reasons. 1) I can't stand High Fantasy or Steampunk. 2) I can't stand theme park games and GW2 is the EMPEROR of Theme Park Games.

 

Honestly, I thought most people in the MMO Genre were sick of theme parks....Im suprised how popular GW2 is becomming.

 

I prefer themepark MMO's, it gives me options. I don't like to be limited in my options....the more to do in an MMO, the better.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

6/27/12 6:38:24 PM#38
Originally posted by Fliara
Originally posted by Vhaln

I'm pretty old, but still haven't gotten a chance to try GW2.  (I hate this pre-purchase for "beta" marketting / milking trend) but that said...

 

I really liked the realm abilities in DAOC.  I liked how they made the level cap into a soft cap, because they were a bit unbalancing.  In both PvE and PvP.  That made them worthwhile, and more importantly FUN.

 

I liked how those realm abilities gave some serious incentive to RvR, that almost all players could get into.  I think that had a lot to do with its popularity.

 

I liked that the different factions felt so different.  Different races, classes, different PvE experiences.. it really felt like going up against other nations, and bolstered the sense of us-vs-them realm pride.

 

So I don't know about WvW, because it lacks some key elements that I thought had a lot to do with making RvR what it was.  I'm trying to keep an open mind, and I'll certainly give it a shot.. but I think there's a good chance I'll end up playing GW2 like just another PvE MMO.

 

That's a hardcore player point of view. You spend a huge amount of time playing a game, so you want to be able to kill noob teams when you get skilled. It's understandable but that's absolutely not fun from a casual point of view. And where it's normal for a single skilled player to kill 1 casual easily (which is possible on Gw2) it s not normal for 1 skilled player to be able to kill 10 casuals alone. Anet doesn't want this kind of stuff and no video game company should want that. When you create a game, it should be to please most of the players and not a minority as hardcores. As a hardcore player myself i understand that it can be frustrating but why should they care? Basing their game on hardcores would prevent many people to play so if they want to sell it, it's a bad idea. Anyway WvW is a massive multiplayer Pvp and you aren't supposed to be able to win it alone. It s a team gameplay and i truly believe that a good small team will be able to make their server progress more than a stupid zergteam. Just watch it that way, it's the beginning so there are only zergs but WvW is a cappoint and splitting judiciously is smarter than staying all together and cap one point after another. When most players'll get that, group strategies and combat will be much more fun. Anyway, not trying to convice anyone to play it. I just know i will :-p

 

Did you play DAOC? ..because you're exaggerating greatly.  Took hardcore skills AND realm rank, just to be able to solo two mediocre players at once.  A huge gap might make it more possible, but it wasn't the norm, and any more than two vs one, and it was pretty much impossible, unless you were up against people who had no idea how to play.  Realm abilities were just little bonuses that gave you an edge, but they weren't that game changing.

 

Also, the way the diminishing returns worked, it was really easy to get your first few abilities, which put you on pretty even footing with almost everyone else.  Some people will always cry about balance, but I thought it was amazingly well balanced, considering.

 

Anyhow, I definately wasn't hardcore.   My highest character was only halfway through RR5, and I often played alts that were lower.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  rdrakken

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/27/12 6:43:11 PM#39
Originally posted by uidCaustic
Originally posted by Pravius

Any of us who used to play DAOC can easily argue that it was and could possibly still be the best PvP Mmorpg ever made. 

Let's see how this ideology works.  *clears throat*

Any of us who used to play DAOC can easily argue that it was entertaining for about a week.

Blanket statements are fun!

I know...just talk to ANYONE that played in Hibernia the first year or so...the bastard realm of DAoC...about how "good" the RvR was. It was so god damn bad most servers held player protests and even crashed servers by having everyone be in a close area. It was the only way to get Mythics attention and they still took their sweet ass time bringing the realm up to par with the others.

  wutae

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/16/03
Posts: 66

6/27/12 6:58:57 PM#40

I dont know what you guys are saying, but i had a blast with a friend of mine, duo mesmer-warrior in wvwvw, where we camped a small capture point, and killed all players trying to capture it, ofc if we saw one big zerg inc, we just hided, and we just retook it after they left. That's what i loved in daoc, that's what i like in GW2, having players keep coming and doing some proper outdoor PvP. And yes we did some 2vs3 and 2vs4 nps. We were just in vent, kiting the proper times, bursting the proper times. But i believe that the magic number for small grps is "3" in daoc it was "2" , with 5 i believe that i could easily take up to 10-15 enemies. coordination is the key to success in all these games.

 

 

The tip for
The win is
cooperation.

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