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News & Features Discussion  » Guild Wars 2: Pleasing the Veterans

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38 posts found
  User Deleted
6/26/12 12:13:35 PM#21
Originally posted by Thorbrand
Originally posted by makii

super hype for a game that is boring. I loved GW1 for the pve and pvp. PvP in GW2 is so boring and not innovativ at all. I dont know much about the PvE aspect yet, since i didnt make that far., but to be honest, it didnt hook me like GW1.

What i miss in GW2 is the fact that you need skill and teamwork to win a game. Here its just a mass zerg. That is the korean way and should be not todays standard.

Samething I see in the game. The WvW is no DAoC or Shadowbane. Just a zergfest with no tactics. As far as a MMO goes it falls short compared to TSW whose PvP is just as good in a better enviroment.

Go away troll......sigh.....I sure will be glad when friday comes and you go play TSW......might keep you busy for a bit and not bashing GW2.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1594

6/26/12 12:24:46 PM#22

Well, my brutally honest opinion when it comes to "pleasing Vets" is, try not to. When you try to please everyone, you wind up pleasing no one. GW2 is actually a very different game than GW1, and the target audience is just as different. I remember reading interviews when GW1 was in development, and it seemed pretty clear that ANet was looking at D2 fans as a potential source of players. ANet admittedly did not intend to make a MMO with GW1, as they have referred to it as a CORPG, and considering that the founders were ex-Blizzard devs, they had an idea of the type of gamer they wanted to attract.

GW2 is also aiming for a specific type of gamer, seemingly. ANet is taking painstaking efforts to remove griefing from PvE, they are adding in two elements of pvp, a more esport style, and a DAoC style. They are also looking at disenfranchied gamers who have been disappointed in the mmo offerings of the past 5-6 years now. On top of all of that, they are making a B2P game, which also means that they are less reliant on carrot-on-a-stick type content, and can offer up something that doesn't need to be quite as addictive as your typical P2P MMO.

I wouldn't be surprised if many GW1 vets didn't like GW2, because the game wasn't made especially for them. It's seemingly made for a different audience. Attempting to grow your fan base is never a bad thing.

  Mariner-80

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 345

6/26/12 12:30:02 PM#23

This GW1 vet is looking forward to playing GW2, but the feature (from GW1) that I'd most like to see in GW2 -- the heroes -- has now been discarded by ArenaNet.

Whether GW2 is still as flexible for all sorts of playing styles (from solo, to small group [2 to 3 players] to full player groups) as GW1 was in its day remains to be seen, but I doubt GW2 will be anywhere near as good as GW1 was in that one, particular respect.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

6/26/12 1:17:10 PM#24
Originally posted by Kaneth

GW2 is actually a very different game than GW1, and the target audience is just as different.

Then why call it Guild Wars 2?  Using a name of the format "$franchise $edition" strongly implies that you appealing to the same core audience and offering the next iteration of the same experience.

  Amjoco

Elite Member

Joined: 9/15/10
Posts: 3877

6/26/12 1:21:16 PM#25
Originally posted by BadSpock

I could never get into GW1, I tried a couple of times but the CO-RPG aspects just were too foreign to me to really feel like I was playing a MMO.

I thought the controls were clunky and the dependance on henchman and such was offputting.

I love GW2. It really feels like a MMO, more so than any MMO I've played since... early WoW? UO?

The biggest I think most important game-changer Anet has done with GW2 is removing the competitive feeling to PvE where you view other players as an annoyance or direct competitor against YOUR progress.

By making everything open, everything cooperative, everything group/party friendly (w/o actualy having to group up) is a real game changer, IMO.

I feel like I can log in and actually play WITH other people, doesn't matter what class or level they are, doesn't matter what quest chain they are on, doesn't even matter what server they are on!

PvE done right - and I've always been PvE > PvP.

Good post BS, I feel the exact same way. GW1 was very hard for me to get into but GW2 is the complete opposite.

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  Anireth

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 417

6/26/12 1:27:24 PM#26

Guild Wars was absolutely horrible in that particular respect until they introduced heroes. And heroes were only needed because of the enforced class distribution like in most MMOs (take a tank, a healer, damage dealers etc.) and the uselessness of the henchman.

It's nice to have that option, that i agree with, but Guild Wars 2 doesn't appear to need this, as there are not so many strict rules. Classes don't matter that much, you only need to atually partipcate. And if you don't, at least for dynamic events, the enemies are weaker.

Dungeons are 5 man instances, so you do not need as many people, either, making it easier to get a group together, compared to the 8 to 12 in the original game.

I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  steve0073a

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/11
Posts: 5

6/26/12 4:47:13 PM#27

I played guildwars non stop had it played in my firend car his name was Zack . Loved it so munch I own all the songs on the directsongs  site we played that sound tracks  non stop passing walmart lol shook the glass and the floor of walmart HA HA . Then all just went down hill  had to move and lost track on how munch I played 

I am missing just 1 point to 50 /50 wow I know took time to gain all that 

I know I am one to gloat but hear is my point system I want to thank my best friend

Deadly Dohnut  I could not do it with his hard work and help !

http://hom.guildwars2.com/en/#page=main&details=k6DCA8%2F%2F%2F%2FD4%2F5md6p%2FHA89FUCSAAAAAmYQpQAAAAAA&todo=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA My 49 out of 50 )

Thank you 

 
 
  therez0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/08
Posts: 382

6/26/12 5:41:23 PM#28

I'm a GW1 vet, playing from the very start, grinding up to 40-summodd HoM points, and then stopping about a year ago out of boredom.  So I'm not looking at GW2 through rose-tinted tinted lenses of fanboism.

 

I like that GW2 is more accessible for the PvE players.  Playing together has never been easier or more enjoyable.

 

But I feel that the PvP is lacking.  It feels like a hot mess.  Sure the hot mess is fun to fool around with for a while, but eventually the bagage and lack of structure will come crashing down around you.  It needs something.  More dynamic/impacting objectives maybe?

 

Another area that could be improved is skill unlocks/progression.  Waiting for all of your utility slots to unlock is painful.  I mean that.  It is tooth pulling, excruciating.  I get it, you want to ease new players into learning their skills, but at the same time you are torturing your players who role alts.  One of the major complaints from the last beta weekend was the tiered skill progression.  I don't think the tiered system would be so bad if you just gave us the slots a lot faster.

 

Another sour note is the dye system.  Charcter bound dyes purchased through the RMT shop?  Fuck that.  There are hundreds of dyes in the game.  You are asking us to GRIND for dyes per character.  Yes, GRIND.  The very thing your Manifesto claims to be against.  Don't mask that word, GRIND, by thinly veiling it by using words like 'character progression'.  If you want dyes to mean something for progression's sake, tie unlocking them to an achievement. DON'T MAKE US GRIND.

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4758

6/26/12 6:05:04 PM#29

I'm a GW1 vet. I find both games to be fun, but they are both completely different types of games. I think Anet is doing a lot to please veterans of GW1. Most of the people who are unhappy seem to want a complete reskin of the first, which can't really happen given where they were going w/ Utopia.

Honestly the only area I think Anet really needs to do more in this regards is when it comes to guilds. Currently guilds are rather limited, and don't have much of an impact on the game at all. More customization is needed, the max player limit needs to be lifted, etc. are things that I hope they all address before launch. Anet seems aware that guilds are a bit lackluster atm, so hopefully they are able to deliver on this.

  atziluth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 1222

Killer 73.33%
Achiever 60.00%
Socializer 40.00%
Explorer 26.67%

6/26/12 9:27:34 PM#30

The irony of claiming GW2 WvW is a zerg fest unlike DAOC and ShadowBane. LOL Really?

Apparently these same vets forgot about Albion zergs or the asian ARAC zerg guilds that ultimately killed shadowbane. Slipped from their minds have been the massive alliance zergs in DAOC that literally killed everything in their path (mobs and players). 

To imply these things did not happen in either of those games only shows that person never really played them. Zergs will happen in any mass PvP game... sorry, but has been and always will be true. 

Once the game has been out a few months and the cream rises to the top, you will see Zergs will not be all they are right now. Two WBs and soon to be 2 ST does not show how PvP will be once players get skill. Maybe it will be horrible... however, making that claim right now based on so little actual playing time is idiotic.

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  User Deleted
6/26/12 9:55:53 PM#31

Tbh, there's a few things from GW1 that's missing (apart from the apparent one: classes) but it's a whole new direction and it's headed in a good one at that so I dont mind. I didn't get the feeling that I was playing something connected to GW 1. Yea there's the names of the gods and the races are familiar and all but I didn't get the feeling of playing GUILD WARS until I fought destroyers and Aatxes. Don't get me wrong, I love the game but still missing some of that old GW1 stuff. Maybe once I get into higher level zones maybe?

  Vutar

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/09
Posts: 757

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. -George Santayana

6/26/12 10:03:36 PM#32

Listen to what the GW1 vets want in the game. then go the opposite way with it. That would probably be the best way to go when following a game that appealed to only a niche audience.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5799

6/26/12 10:25:06 PM#33
Originally posted by tv2zulu
Originally posted by werewood

From a business model perspective, that player base that would want to stick with GW1, is the only group of people that GW2 doesnt have to appeal to. ANet is trying to get new customers, while not loosing what they already have. Anyway, its a fair question, but not a must question I think. If someone likes a game that much he is probably like the guys who still play Vanguard or EQ. Which is again just as cool.

There's no subscription fee, and they are not releasing any new GW1 expansions.

From a business perspective, they want as many GW1 players to buy GW2 boxes. The GW1 cash shop is hardly going to sustain the resources required to keep GW1 profitable. Once GW2 launches, that will be the only source of income for GW1, except for the odd GW1 box sale ( for completionists that crave the HoM items in GW2 most likely ).

See that doesn't make sense to me.  ANet's whole spiel was the box sale was good enough.  That is the attraction of B2P.  If they didn't make enough off of B2P sales to keep their game running, then what is the point of B2P. 

 

I've played the original since launch.  I was in a great guild and alliance with some great people.  We ran story missions and did some pvp.  We farmed "Icy Humps" (inside joke) and other goodies.  The people and community made the game more than any other aspect.

Another great thing, at the time, was B2P in a world of P2P monthly fees.  You bought the game and that was it.  Then came the cash shop.  Now in a world of F2P games with cash shops B2P isn't that snazzy to me.

Another great thing early on is that any class could build a way that added to a group but also had a solo farming spec.  You didn't need henchmen at all despite what some people who haven't really played the game claim.  No one was ever dependent on henchmen.  You could fill in with a role if you wanted, but it certainly wasn't necessary.

There was a huge in game economy filled with rare dyes, rare runes, and max stat gold weapons.  That was great.  This is the one thing about GW2 that looks like it might carry over.  We'll see how it works though since you don't have to hit the hubs as much it seems.

 

An odd combination of game design elements and limitations fostered a great community in GW1 and that's what made the game great and had people stick to it.  GW2 looks like it has some very fun elements, but only time will tell if it fosters a dedicated, friendly, inviting community.  That's what makes any game great in my opinion.

Curse you AquaScum!

  13thRaven

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/29/08
Posts: 1

6/27/12 2:07:44 AM#34

I have played GW since beta...so it's a bit of deja vu playing GW2 beta now.  Everything is fresh and new. I remember some game features that either disappeared or were changed drastically since release of GW.  Removing the experience requirement to "earn back" skill points...some major frustration in trying to rework a build (it could take days).  The disappearance of the Minion Factory builds and so many other changes caused a rukus, but evened out the game over time. (Do you REALLY think ANet is going to stop tweaking the game after release?).  What's cracking me up is the number of people claiming GW2 aspects as "broken" for things still in beta...it's BETA!  I remember not knowing what the hell we were doing in PvP during GW  beta...it was a free-for-all.  People claiming PvP in GW2 lacks direction, teamwork and organization...ummmm...freakin' DUH. Peopleare still learning...a game you can know all the tactics and strategies in a couple days?  Shit, go backto tic-tac-toe.

People bitching that they can't get things fast enough in a weekend...cracks me up. In GW we were excited as hell to get a purple weapon and to work our way as far as Lion's Arch.  Kids ta-day, I tells ya! Anyone expecting to collect an assload of dyes in a weekend or other odds and ends and claiming "GRIND"...pssshhhht!  I designed the Frog Scepter for GW and it took me weeks of running through Sparkfly Swamp and into the dungeon to get one, and I was freakin' happy to get it.  If I could get one over any given weekend,  how special would it be?  I'd feel cheated.  I hate grind as much as the next guy, but claiming grind or frustration in pacing in any acheivements in a 60 level game over a couple of weekends is just rediculous.

Play, enjoy and freakin' relax. It's beta...not finished, not perfect and not enough time to learn everything...get over it for Balthazar's sake.

 

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2758

6/27/12 2:33:53 AM#35
Originally posted by Vutar

Listen to what the GW1 vets want in the game. then go the opposite way with it. That would probably be the best way to go when following a game that appealed to only a niche audience.

If it wasn't for us, GW2 would have never seen the light of day. If anyone should be arrogant, it should be the GW1 fans. GW1 didn't appeal to a niche audience. It targeted a lot of people who are not MMO players. Most of the people in my guild never played an MMO and when they quit GW they never went for an MMO game. If anything MMO players are the niche audience for a no sub game. A lot of non-MMO players may buy the game because it can be easily seen as an online Action RPG. NO sub, no problem.

There were a few things from GW1 which I will miss but there's quite a few new features in GW2 which I like.

If you haven't played GW1 or you spent a few hours playing the game, you clearly are not included in the group of people being discussed in this thread. So your opinion is unimportant in this thread as you will be too one sided and biased. You have only played GW2.

 

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  Silverbranch

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/10
Posts: 185

Wherever you go, there you are.

7/04/12 12:20:14 PM#36
Originally posted by Shariest

Meh never played Guild Wars The First---Altough i think i have friend who was inches away from becoming a GW I fanboy... 

I am sometimes more than thankfull of never playing or seeing originals on this era of sequels. While waiting for GWII :)

What's interesting here is that not all that long ago I would have agreed with you.  I had tried the GW Trial twice, and just thought "Blah.  Nothing to see here", and never bought the game.

 

Of course I wasn't paying attention and didn't realize I had never gotten OUT of the starter instance (which comprises a fairly large map).  So I tried the Trial one more time out of boredome and great dissatisfaction with Rift . . . .

. . . realized I was in a starter instance / zones . . . completed that and actually got out in the game world.

 

The original Guild Wars and it's expansions Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North represent some of the BEST MMO implementations ever, even with some "rough edges" in the game (combat isn't quite as smooth as it could be, blind round-robin targetting, no AH, no e-mail).

 

To my surprise what I found was the OPPOSITE dynamic in game play typically experienced in other MMOs that have a single, linear climb up a flag pole, that eventually starts to bend, totter, and fall over.  Continuity between the expansions was superb, fantastic storylining, nice classes with a good selection of skills, interesting quest chains that included Primaries core to the "campaign" goal/storyline.  Artwork on Gear is stellar, and highly varied, landscapes extremely well done.

 

The Hero / Henchmen system is revolutionary / evolutionary in my opinion, not the other way around.  It acts as a natural filler to live-player availability or not letting me fill a party as needed to actually GO OUT and enjoy the game, whether I have 1, 4, or 10 guildies and friends on, or if none of them are on.

 

And while there are some "trick builds" that let you stand up under some rough situations, I am LIKING the great decrease in gear dependency present in Guild Wars.  There is gear, better gear, and best gear.  But the differences between them is far, far less overt than in other games.  You more need to know how to fight, as a group, as well as having the correct skills equipped and why.

 

Short to the long:  I went from feeling Guild Wars was "Bleh, why bother . . .", to feeling it's one of the most well designed and implemented MMOs ever, even with some rough edges, because of the superb continuity across SEVEN years of content and deployment.

 

I've gotten more entertainment value out of Guild Wars, a seven year old game, than I did out of Rift.  And for me, someone with a more flexible mind-set than some, it hasn't poisoned my outlook on GW2 at all.  I'll take it as it is, and not presuppose how it's "supposed to be" from my time in GW1.

 

Objective evidence of someone's work results is often times the best way to measure sales-pitches.  We all know this in life.  Personally, I like GW1 a lot, I like how it was structured and put together over 7 years in the friggen GAMING industry . . . the very definition of unstable . . . so I'm going into GW2 with a positive mindset based on past work deployment on their part.

 

Game On!

 
 

Wherever you go, there you are.

  Badaboom

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

7/04/12 12:24:46 PM#37

I had a big nostalgia moment during the last BW2 when I was fighting Scale with the original musical score playing from starting area in GW1.

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7951

7/04/12 12:30:50 PM#38
Originally posted by makii

super hype for a game that is boring. I loved GW1 for the pve and pvp. PvP in GW2 is so boring and not innovativ at all. I dont know much about the PvE aspect yet, since i didnt make that far., but to be honest, it didnt hook me like GW1.

What i miss in GW2 is the fact that you need skill and teamwork to win a game. Here its just a mass zerg. That is the korean way and should be not todays standard.

sadly i got to say you are right in this!arenanet need to  put a random system for the higher tier stuff and penalise those leaving because they feel they re with lesser player!why?because this is one issue that plagued gw1 and undid it!yes it was great but at some point only elitist could go in.not an elistist sorry cannot go in with us sorry!that is why they need to make the end game stuff randomly selected and penalised (by removing rated point if you leave)this way

some think pug group shouldnt be in any game!then arenanet might has well not release the game because the vast majority rated or not love pug group ,searching for a group to go in a rated pvp and being told sorry you arent an elitist you cant come is the best thing to make sure a game die fast!

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