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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » So will PvP save the day?

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123 posts found
  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

6/24/12 12:43:27 AM#21
Originally posted by Blacknd
Originally posted by heartless
Originally posted by Blacknd
Originally posted by heartless

Hard to disprove without public info? It is public info, you can google this stuff as GW2 has no NDA. Each of the GW2 WvW zones are much bigger than FuSang. And there are 4 of them in GW2.

Three of which are identical, but by public info I meant to-scale maps. Concrete numbers, not pictures.

As far as those bosses go, we tried one of them with a group of 7 a few times and failed. So maybe if you have all QL10 stuff, you can take them with a small group but the rest of us cannot.

Honestly not sure if the bosses in the OB were scaled down, but you can't even even enter Fusang without having QL10 gear on release. So assuming it wasn't scaled down, working as intended.

Oh and those "common complaints..." The game is launching in less than 2 weeks and it has issues like that?

Two weeks to add a respawn timer. We'll see I guess.

You can dismiss my hour long assessment all you want, it's not going to make TSW PvP any better. It's bad, plain and simple and does not even come close to not only the quality of GW2's WvW but WoW's AV and Wintergrasp as well.

Hey, as long as you don't expect your hour-long review of a game's entire system to be taken seriously, we can agree to disagree.

 

You can search YouTube for the videos, if you're not sure of the scope. Also, anyone who has played both TSW and GW2 will tell you that GW2 WvW maps are much bigger x4. But yea, keep trying.

Again, as far as your poor attempt at dismissing my review, FuSang is not that deep. Anyone who has ever PvPed in an average MMO battleground will be able to figure it out in minutes. It's a zergfest point capture which rewards those with bigger numbers, rather than those with better tactics.

Keep trying though. Because there are a few people who haven't played TSW yet, so maybe you'll convince them. Or maybe you're trying to convince yourself?

Hardly a poor attempt :/ Think about it in objective terms without putting your opinion on a pedestal: If someone wrote a serious review about a game's system and prefaced it by saying "I put an hour into researching this," would you take it seriously?

No.

No one in their right mind would.

You rated an entire system based on your admittedly limited experience on it. And in that limited time frame, you were going against a massive zerg, which is never fun, with admittedly subpar gear, which only exacerbates the issue. Then you assumed that's how it always is and always will be and judged the system thusly.

All I'm trying to convince anyone of is that your opinion should be taken with a grain of salt, as opposed to as a review.

It doesn't even take an hour to figure out Fusang. The premise is pretty evident as soon as you log in and becomes even more evident when you run into the zerg that is simply running from one point to the other capturing it and killing everyone who gets in their way.

There is nothing to it. No supplies, no keeps to defend. No caravans and supply camps. No siege equipment. Just one huge zerg, consisting of the most dominant faction, and those who get owned by that zerg. It's horrible PvP. You can dismiss my review all you want but the other posters who have posted between our comments have basicaly said the same thing that I did. Or are we all wrong and you're right?

  User Deleted
6/24/12 12:43:59 AM#22

GW2 PvP is better for the mass scale battles.  That said, TSW PvP is some of the best PvP to be had.  This is not Ilum all over again.  Not by a long shot.  Fusang is nice looking, large and engaging with the 3 factions going at it.

 

  heartless

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/04
Posts: 5057

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. -Carl Sagan

6/24/12 12:47:57 AM#23
Originally posted by jdnyc

GW2 PvP is better for the mass scale battles.  That said, TSW PvP is some of the best PvP to be had.  This is not Ilum all over again.  Not by a long shot.  Fusang is nice looking, large and engaging with the 3 factions going at it.

 

Correction, one templar zerg consisting of 50+ people and 5 dragon and 3 lummie players. The zone is not even large. It takes longer to run from one end of AV to the other than it does to do the same in Fusang.

  tares

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/11
Posts: 384

6/24/12 12:48:46 AM#24

No, the PvP is a poor mans SWTOR. The SWTOR PvP helped but didn't save the day. By "poor mans" I mean worse, yet it costs more, esp for Brits.

Number imbalance in the high pop zone, just like ilum.

The two instances are bland with weak objectives and do start with population inbalance like the persistant zone.

So many players look the same.  Combat animations lessen the fun.  All 3 pvp mini games are zerg fest, no strat/comm required. 

At the end of the day it is the same or worse than what all games have done before.  WoW, Rift, Tera, SWTOR, Aion, and others had the same thing or better.

Today the only thing that will save TSW is advertising as they need to sell 1.3 million boxes like they said they will do.

 

 

  Fraugnutz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/08
Posts: 75

6/24/12 2:48:45 AM#25

The reason it was so Templar heavy in Fusang was becasue everyone was playing the templar characters they created during the first beta weekend. I seriously doubt it will be this lopsided after launch and everyone roles the factions that they want and not just the one that was made available first...

  SpottyGekko

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2956

6/24/12 3:06:32 AM#26
Originally posted by Fraugnutz

The reason it was so Templar heavy in Fusang was becasue everyone was playing the templar characters they created during the first beta weekend. I seriously doubt it will be this lopsided after launch and everyone roles the factions that they want and not just the one that was made available first...

I'd not be surprised if the faction imbalance persists after launch. Both the Templars and Illuminati are "classic" secret societies, and have featured in many books and movies. They are part of the popular culture. But Dragon ? Who's that ?

 

The fact that London seems to be the most developed city in the game doesn't help either. It has the largest map, most interesting and varied buildings and contains the player bank. It's also the HQ for the Templars, so play as a Templar and you never really need to visit another city for your ingame needs. Play as Illuminati or Dragon, and you'll be travelling a lot more.

 

The faction buffs from PVP are a cool idea in theory, but if one faction dominates at launch, many players will roll characters in that faction just to get the buff advantages, and then the death spiral starts...

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8641

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  6/24/12 3:41:09 AM#27
Originally posted by heartless

I just tried PvP for the first time in TSW, didn't get a chance to before today.

I did a an hour or so of FuSang and all I have to say is wow, what a mess! Instant respawns. Let that sink in for a minute. Instant respawns in PvP. Are you trying to take a point? Well, the respawn is right above it and it's instant, so good luck.

Instalock builds. They lock all of your abilities and you can't do anything until you're pretty much dead.

Then you have PvE bosses in a PvP zone. Which in itself is not a big deal, except that the bosses are virtually impossible to take down with a small group, so you need a zerg. Which brings me to my next point.

Zerg. No small group tactics here, it's better to run around with a zerg.

For a persistant PvP zone, it is incredibly tiny. Nowhere near to the epic sizes of GW2's WvW zones. Hell, it's not even close to the size of WoW's Alterac Valley. Probably about the size of Arathi Basin.

There is no thought involved in this persistant PvP anyway. You just run around taking points and killing stragglers. No keeps to take over and defend, no siege equipment, no resources to balance, no caravans to escort to besieged keeps. Just a bunch of zergs running around taking points on a tiny map.

The PvE in this game is good, the PvP is horrible.

Edit: on a more personal note, I don't understand why the templars and the illuminati get cool uniforms and the dragon get a track suit with glow in the dark stripes.

Spot on...

 

 

In this form PvP is nothing more then a small somewhat amusing game to play for like 30 minutes.

 

 

They really should add more depth.  

 

 

Like in all those other MMO´s PvP feels like an aftertought, which answers my orriginal question. In this form PvP will not safe the day.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

6/24/12 3:56:40 AM#28
Originally posted by Fraugnutz

The reason it was so Templar heavy in Fusang was becasue everyone was playing the templar characters they created during the first beta weekend. I seriously doubt it will be this lopsided after launch and everyone roles the factions that they want and not just the one that was made available first...

It seemed like in the CB templars and iluminati were similar sizes but dragons seemed to be lacking. Maybe someone with more CB experience can confirm this.


  Shana77

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/07
Posts: 185

6/24/12 4:43:11 AM#29

Played some Fusang and I have to agree with the assasment that its basically a large battleground. Had this released a while ago it would have been nifty but compared to Guild Wars 2's WvW it just feels incredibly limited and outdated. 

  effiluna

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/12
Posts: 3

6/24/12 8:48:30 AM#30
Originally posted by Fraugnutz

The reason it was so Templar heavy in Fusang was becasue everyone was playing the templar characters they created during the first beta weekend. I seriously doubt it will be this lopsided after launch and everyone roles the factions that they want and not just the one that was made available first...

Exactly right! Morteia addressed this yesterday on the official forums.

Effiluna
Funcom Community Manager
(Twitter)(Official Forums)

  User Deleted
6/24/12 9:31:19 AM#31

I'd like to understand what GW2 cultists are doing in a TSW forum comparing the two games. If we're going to play that way, you people do realize Planetside 2 makes wvwvww looks bland, generic and pathetic, right? Yet, i don't compare because i'm able to judge features based on their own mechanics. And btw, i prefer GW2's pvp, like both games, but prefer TSW.

On the topic of Fusang. My biggest grip is that the Anima Wells are just used for respawns. The original video from 2011 showed Anima Charges to open up the gate. That system actually made capturing different wells a must. Now, not so much, it's just to reduce time. The original one looked better IMO. Also, i'm not sure what the max number of players is right now and how many it will be at launch, but Fusang is for about 50v50v50, maybe to 75. This isn't bad btw. To me, giant numbers simply doesn't make it better. But i think that with a combination of smaller caps and anima chargers, it would have made for less zergy and strategic gameplay, by having players split into small teams (which fits with the theme of the game perfectly). They even showed that the charge itself was visiable, so protection was a must. Other ideas using the wells, etc could make it better, but as it stand right now, it's far from perfect.

  Soandsoso

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/08/12
Posts: 478

6/24/12 10:27:31 AM#32
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

I'd like to understand what GW2 cultists are doing in a TSW forum comparing the two games. If we're going to play that way, you people do realize Planetside 2 makes wvwvww looks bland, generic and pathetic, right? Yet, i don't compare because i'm able to judge features based on their own mechanics. And btw, i prefer GW2's pvp, like both games, but prefer TSW.

On the topic of Fusang. My biggest grip is that the Anima Wells are just used for respawns. The original video from 2011 showed Anima Charges to open up the gate. That system actually made capturing different wells a must. Now, not so much, it's just to reduce time. The original one looked better IMO. Also, i'm not sure what the max number of players is right now and how many it will be at launch, but Fusang is for about 50v50v50, maybe to 75. This isn't bad btw. To me, giant numbers simply doesn't make it better. But i think that with a combination of smaller caps and anima chargers, it would have made for less zergy and strategic gameplay, by having players split into small teams (which fits with the theme of the game perfectly). They even showed that the charge itself was visiable, so protection was a must. Other ideas using the wells, etc could make it better, but as it stand right now, it's far from perfect.

Thats what the GW2 fanbois do. I find it funny too since GW2 pvp everyone is boosted up. How carebear is that.

  Saxonblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 286

6/24/12 10:35:34 AM#33

I love how the same people just post crap over and over here, if you had actually played the game you would know the reason why there are so many Temps running around. The fact that you have not shows glaring enough as you spew nonsense about something you just want people to believe you have knowledge about.

The sad thing is they are GW2 fans for the most part and are really giving some of us that DO like BOTH games a bad name, seriously go outside it is summer time enjoy it instead of trying to get your post count to 5000!!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/24/12 10:42:39 AM#34
WvW has 4 maps, tsw has 1 (with second in production) - point gw2
WvW has more involved seige - point gw2
Tsw is truly persistent not on a 2 week timer - point tsw
You can see who you are fighting in tsw - point tsw
You can go rvr from "level 1" in gw2 - point gw2
The faction wide buffs and weekly white mark distribution is a stronger inventive to hold facilities - point tsw
Ttk is just right in gw2, a little to fast in tsw - point gw2

Both will get owned in the "lets copy daoc" department by both planetside2 and TESO.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/24/12 10:43:45 AM#35
Fusang holds upto 300 players.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/24/12 10:47:37 AM#36
Freedom, I agree they should use the deliver x charges from an anima well to blow the door to the facilities system they had earlier. It would;

Slow it down
Give tanks more of a role
Make it more tactical
Make taking a facility feel like more of an achievement.


Given gw2 is months off, I think WvW fans are missing out if some are so anti tsw they won't try it. You could have a good couple of months fun pvp in tsw while waiting on gw2.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/24/12 10:49:08 AM#37
Lol its way bigger than alteract f'kin valley.
  Blackbrrd

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/09
Posts: 812

6/24/12 10:52:33 AM#38
Originally posted by heartless

It doesn't even take an hour to figure out Fusang. The premise is pretty evident as soon as you log in and becomes even more evident when you run into the zerg that is simply running from one point to the other capturing it and killing everyone who gets in their way.

There is nothing to it. No supplies, no keeps to defend. No caravans and supply camps. No siege equipment. Just one huge zerg, consisting of the most dominant faction, and those who get owned by that zerg. It's horrible PvP. You can dismiss my review all you want but the other posters who have posted between our comments have basicaly said the same thing that I did. Or are we all wrong and you're right?

So, the point of defending a facility is something you don't know then I assume? Because you get more white tokens for your faction the longer you hold one. The points you get for capturing one is much lower. So, what you are seeing now is people like you who don't know what effect what they are doing actually have.

I don't know if people will start playing smart, but they have actually made it smart to hold on to your facilities.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

6/24/12 11:03:13 AM#39
You get bigger bonuses for holding stuff in tsw than in gw2.
  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

6/24/12 11:04:52 AM#40
Originally posted by ShakyMo
You get bigger bonuses for holding stuff in tsw than in gw2.

still yet to be seen since no one knows what the final bonuses will be for GW2

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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