Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Brenelael

If and when this game is a stand alone product the very nature of it screams Buy to Play like GW. This game will appeal to a very large number of FPS players as well and this is the payment model they are the most familiar with as well. Since it is a survival game a CS doesn't really fit either as anything you put in it would be P2W. The whole point of the game is having to scrounge for everything and a CS would totally negate that mechanic.

 

Bren

Not at all.

 

They are already introducing items that could be cosmetic and offer no advantage.

 

- Things like melee weapons.  Why not have cutting sheers, ala Zombieland?   Or a chainsaw.  You don't need to balance them.  And who wants to buy melee weapons as a primary form of combat?  No one.

- Suits/Uniforms.  I don't want too much pop culture in Dayz, but it's not like you couldn't have people in banana suits running around.  Again, not that I want to see that example exactly.

- The ability to spray paint vehicles and tents.  

- special player models.

- Hats?

 

I'm sure many more can be introduced as well, as the game gets further in production.  None of those things will help you gain an advantage over another player.

 

On a side note.  I really don't understand the point of this post.  This game is not a MMO.  It's similar, sure.  It's also in Alpha and we don't even know for sure if it will become a stand alone title.  Discussing subscription models seems to be a little bit early at this point.  Either way, it will be B2P and there could potentially be a shop involved.

Sorry but not having to go out and find those things, cometic or not, destroys the whole concept of "Survival". Also a cool camo paint job on a vehicle or a cool camo outfit would give you a definite advantage in a Military Sandbox type game. A CS would destroy the whole "Desperate need to survive" mood of the game/mod. It's a very bad idea no matter how you try to justify it.

 

Bren

I don't remember the topic being about your opinion on whether it destroys it or not.  But I'm game.

It doesn't destroy anything if it is just pixels that has no effect on gameplay other than cosmetics.

You can say something fairly easily, but it's much harder to actually explain and defend it.  So I need you to explain why a certain suit (Notice I never said camo) would give your character an advantage.  Also note that I mentioned a banana suit.  This could also be a legit tuxedo or something else.  It would actually give you a disadvantage.

No matter.  The point was that a CS can actually work in this game.  The point wasn't that it is a good or bad idea.  

It's not like I'm calling for Filet Mignon or Rocket Launchers to be sold online.  

I think some of you missed a very important fact about DayZ anyways.  It has a feature that really wouldn't make a CS feasible.  Possibly?  Sure, but not largely beneficial.  

Perma Death.  

You'll just lose what you bought to someone unless it is fixed to your character somehow.  Which narrows down the possibilities unless they plan on breaking the game and giving you blessed items.  I'm pretty sure that everyone will be against it.

I still believe character appearances would work.  Blessed items that are purely cosmetic, that do not change how you play the game.  Tattoos, jewelry, clothing designs, hats, gun skins, haircuts, etc.  They can't be lost when you die and character creation would have to be more than picking male or female, obviously.

Why is this in the DayZ section?

Nobody could possibly suggest a sub to play this, could they?

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Ultimate sub model.

For example you buy month of gametime and gametime gets used only when you play,minute per minute.

I actually like that, but I expect the pricing itself to be obsene.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Ultimate sub model.

For example you buy month of gametime and gametime gets used only when you play,minute per minute.

I actually like that, but I expect the pricing itself to be obsene.

Eh, it's a thought.. but I see it going the route of CoD or BF3...

I don't know how many people would play it if there was any sort of subscription.

Originally posted by palulalula

I think that this model is best one for mmo's.  Subscription for hardcore players and F2P for casual. But players who choose subscription model should have all items from shop for free

That wouldn't work, but what they could do is make the game b2p and offer p2p servers, that way those of you who have visions of playing a game for free(even though cash shops typically cost more than subs) you can still do it, but those of us who don't want "HEY HEY DOUBLE CASH TUESDAY IS HERE!!!!" Could still play on the p2p servers which would have to have drop rates adjusted and the CS eliminated of course.  Best of both worlds.

I think that may actually be alot of companies solution going forward.

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Ultimate sub model.

For example you buy month of gametime and gametime gets used only when you play,minute per minute.

I actually like that, but I expect the pricing itself to be obsene.

They have this in eastern market and the prices for them are lower than our monthly subs... Way better for mmos or any sub based game imo.

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Brenelael

If and when this game is a stand alone product the very nature of it screams Buy to Play like GW. This game will appeal to a very large number of FPS players as well and this is the payment model they are the most familiar with as well. Since it is a survival game a CS doesn't really fit either as anything you put in it would be P2W. The whole point of the game is having to scrounge for everything and a CS would totally negate that mechanic.

 

Bren

Not at all.

 

They are already introducing items that could be cosmetic and offer no advantage.

 

- Things like melee weapons.  Why not have cutting sheers, ala Zombieland?   Or a chainsaw.  You don't need to balance them.  And who wants to buy melee weapons as a primary form of combat?  No one.

- Suits/Uniforms.  I don't want too much pop culture in Dayz, but it's not like you couldn't have people in banana suits running around.  Again, not that I want to see that example exactly.

- The ability to spray paint vehicles and tents.  

- special player models.

- Hats?

 

I'm sure many more can be introduced as well, as the game gets further in production.  None of those things will help you gain an advantage over another player.

 

On a side note.  I really don't understand the point of this post.  This game is not a MMO.  It's similar, sure.  It's also in Alpha and we don't even know for sure if it will become a stand alone title.  Discussing subscription models seems to be a little bit early at this point.  Either way, it will be B2P and there could potentially be a shop involved.

Sorry but not having to go out and find those things, cometic or not, destroys the whole concept of "Survival". Also a cool camo paint job on a vehicle or a cool camo outfit would give you a definite advantage in a Military Sandbox type game. A CS would destroy the whole "Desperate need to survive" mood of the game/mod. It's a very bad idea no matter how you try to justify it.

 

Bren

Dont know how GW got involved with this thread. It may destroy your concept of "survival" which you failed to define but it doesnt make a game P2W.  

A CS doesnt destroy anything unless you perceive it to do so.  The option to buy cosmetic items (like a hat) doesnt grant an advantage in PvP or other modes of gameplay.

I think you are stuck in your idea of what you think a CS is and that blinds you to the actual fact.

Totally wrong on all counts. I have nothing against the idea of a CS in the right game. I've used them myself and defended them many times on this forum. The only mention of GW was their payment model(B2P). Do you play DayZ? From your reply it sounds like you don't so sorry if I'm wrong in that assumption. In this Mod the entire point is you start with almost nothing and have to find the things you need to survive. Anything that gives players a short cut to any item, cosmetic or not, underminds the entire point of playing. Anything that you aquire is a potential boon... even something as simple as a hat.

 

If you haven't played DayZ maybe you should before you comment... If you have played it you miss the point of the Mod entirely if you think a CS could in any way work in this game. In this Mod even finding something as simple as a can of beans can feel like winning the lottery... There has been nothing like DayZ in gaming history. If you haven't experienced it personally you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Bren

I have not played DayZ (thanks for asking).  Im more of the fantasy MMORPG type player.  Gimme a sword.  I also wanted to separate the difference between a CS being P2W (which I dont believe) from an IMPLEMENTED CS that *allows* P2W (which I do believe).  Your argument is related to the latter and with that I agree.

Games like Perfect World, you need to invest money if you want to play the end game.  And guess what?  I wont be playing end game, but at the same time I dont have an urge to.  Each CS instance has to be viewed on what it offers. Some are good others are bad.  Up to the developers to try and find that 'sweet' spot.

Playing DayZ (alone) should be the sole factor to determine the value (or lack thereof) of a cash shop. But from your example, obviously putting items in a CS could give an advantage. But thats one specific game.  And also I still dont see if you had a hat how that would give you an advantage over someone who didnt have one.  Its not like it has armor value.  You cant eat it.  Its not a weapon.  Even in your DayZ if I played it I wouldnt care if someone had it.

I play other most F2P MMOs (Ether Saga, Eden Eternal, LOTRO, CoX, etc).  I couldnt even tell you if any of those are "deemed" P2W because what someone else purchases in the CS doesnt affect me and my playing experience.  Back to my earlier example, if someone wants to buy a unique hat. I fail to see how that makes my play time/experience any worse than if they didnt buy it.

Thats why I say its subjective.  You may FEEL that a particular CS is P2W, but that doesnt make it a fact since "winning" itself is subjective, and someone else may have a completely different view - especially if they feel P2W doesn't affect them.

I guess my point is I dont play to compete with other people, I play to GROUP with other people.  If they spent their money on a cool CS item?  More power to them.  I still get to play/enjoy the game all the same.

Or how about we just drop the outdated sub model all together and pretend we were never tricked into thinking monthly payments actually helped a games future in the first place?

There are way too many successful F2P and B2P games that have come out over the last 14+ years to have this discussion anymore.

---

Originally posted by palulalula
I think that this model is best one for mmo's.  Subscription for hardcore players and F2P for casual. But players who choose subscription model should have all items from shop for free

---

They cant charge anything for Dayz.

---

Originally posted by rdrakken

There are way too many successful F2P and B2P games that have come out over the last 14+ years to have this discussion anymore.

---

And there all powered by monocles and such.

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Brenelael

If and when this game is a stand alone product the very nature of it screams Buy to Play like GW. This game will appeal to a very large number of FPS players as well and this is the payment model they are the most familiar with as well. Since it is a survival game a CS doesn't really fit either as anything you put in it would be P2W. The whole point of the game is having to scrounge for everything and a CS would totally negate that mechanic.

 

Bren

Not at all.

 

They are already introducing items that could be cosmetic and offer no advantage.

 

- Things like melee weapons.  Why not have cutting sheers, ala Zombieland?   Or a chainsaw.  You don't need to balance them.  And who wants to buy melee weapons as a primary form of combat?  No one.

- Suits/Uniforms.  I don't want too much pop culture in Dayz, but it's not like you couldn't have people in banana suits running around.  Again, not that I want to see that example exactly.

- The ability to spray paint vehicles and tents.  

- special player models.

- Hats?

 

I'm sure many more can be introduced as well, as the game gets further in production.  None of those things will help you gain an advantage over another player.

 

On a side note.  I really don't understand the point of this post.  This game is not a MMO.  It's similar, sure.  It's also in Alpha and we don't even know for sure if it will become a stand alone title.  Discussing subscription models seems to be a little bit early at this point.  Either way, it will be B2P and there could potentially be a shop involved.

Sorry but not having to go out and find those things, cometic or not, destroys the whole concept of "Survival". Also a cool camo paint job on a vehicle or a cool camo outfit would give you a definite advantage in a Military Sandbox type game. A CS would destroy the whole "Desperate need to survive" mood of the game/mod. It's a very bad idea no matter how you try to justify it.

 

Bren

Dont know how GW got involved with this thread. It may destroy your concept of "survival" which you failed to define but it doesnt make a game P2W.  

A CS doesnt destroy anything unless you perceive it to do so.  The option to buy cosmetic items (like a hat) doesnt grant an advantage in PvP or other modes of gameplay.

I think you are stuck in your idea of what you think a CS is and that blinds you to the actual fact.

Totally wrong on all counts. I have nothing against the idea of a CS in the right game. I've used them myself and defended them many times on this forum. The only mention of GW was their payment model(B2P). Do you play DayZ? From your reply it sounds like you don't so sorry if I'm wrong in that assumption. In this Mod the entire point is you start with almost nothing and have to find the things you need to survive. Anything that gives players a short cut to any item, cosmetic or not, underminds the entire point of playing. Anything that you aquire is a potential boon... even something as simple as a hat.

 

If you haven't played DayZ maybe you should before you comment... If you have played it you miss the point of the Mod entirely if you think a CS could in any way work in this game. In this Mod even finding something as simple as a can of beans can feel like winning the lottery... There has been nothing like DayZ in gaming history. If you haven't experienced it personally you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Bren

I have not played DayZ (thanks for asking).  Im more of the fantasy MMORPG type player.  Gimme a sword.  I also wanted to separate the difference between a CS being P2W (which I dont believe) from an IMPLEMENTED CS that *allows* P2W (which I do believe).  Your argument is related to the latter and with that I agree.

Games like Perfect World, you need to invest money if you want to play the end game.  And guess what?  I wont be playing end game, but at the same time I dont have an urge to.  Each CS instance has to be viewed on what it offers. Some are good others are bad.  Up to the developers to try and find that 'sweet' spot.

Playing DayZ (alone) should be the sole factor to determine the value (or lack thereof) of a cash shop. But from your example, obviously putting items in a CS could give an advantage. But thats one specific game.  And also I still dont see if you had a hat how that would give you an advantage over someone who didnt have one.  Its not like it has armor value.  You cant eat it.  Its not a weapon.  Even in your DayZ if I played it I wouldnt care if someone had it.

I play other most F2P MMOs (Ether Saga, Eden Eternal, LOTRO, CoX, etc).  I couldnt even tell you if any of those are "deemed" P2W because what someone else purchases in the CS doesnt affect me and my playing experience.  Back to my earlier example, if someone wants to buy a unique hat. I fail to see how that makes my play time/experience any worse than if they didnt buy it.

Thats why I say its subjective.  You may FEEL that a particular CS is P2W, but that doesnt make it a fact since "winning" itself is subjective, and someone else may have a completely different view - especially if they feel P2W doesn't affect them.

I guess my point is I dont play to compete with other people, I play to GROUP with other people.  If they spent their money on a cool CS item?  More power to them.  I still get to play/enjoy the game all the same.

 

 

Don't want to listen to Bren? How about Rocket himself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj9Tih-esfw&feature=BFa&list=UUy1Ms_5qBTawC-k7PVjHXKQ

It's an hour long and it's pretty good.  Selling anything destroys the concept Rocket has for his mod. Get it polished and on it's own engine and put a $60 price tag on it. It will sell. 

Need help funding it?  Kickstater.  Want some help with getting the word out? Total Biscuit would no doubt help with this as well. He seemed to really enjoy the game and it's concept. Not to mention that TB has got a good track record for helping get the word out on Kickstater projects which he did videos on.

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by DAS1337

Originally posted by Brenelael

If and when this game is a stand alone product the very nature of it screams Buy to Play like GW. This game will appeal to a very large number of FPS players as well and this is the payment model they are the most familiar with as well. Since it is a survival game a CS doesn't really fit either as anything you put in it would be P2W. The whole point of the game is having to scrounge for everything and a CS would totally negate that mechanic.

 

Bren

Not at all.

 

They are already introducing items that could be cosmetic and offer no advantage.

 

- Things like melee weapons.  Why not have cutting sheers, ala Zombieland?   Or a chainsaw.  You don't need to balance them.  And who wants to buy melee weapons as a primary form of combat?  No one.

- Suits/Uniforms.  I don't want too much pop culture in Dayz, but it's not like you couldn't have people in banana suits running around.  Again, not that I want to see that example exactly.

- The ability to spray paint vehicles and tents.  

- special player models.

- Hats?

 

I'm sure many more can be introduced as well, as the game gets further in production.  None of those things will help you gain an advantage over another player.

 

On a side note.  I really don't understand the point of this post.  This game is not a MMO.  It's similar, sure.  It's also in Alpha and we don't even know for sure if it will become a stand alone title.  Discussing subscription models seems to be a little bit early at this point.  Either way, it will be B2P and there could potentially be a shop involved.

Sorry but not having to go out and find those things, cometic or not, destroys the whole concept of "Survival". Also a cool camo paint job on a vehicle or a cool camo outfit would give you a definite advantage in a Military Sandbox type game. A CS would destroy the whole "Desperate need to survive" mood of the game/mod. It's a very bad idea no matter how you try to justify it.

 

Bren

I don't remember the topic being about your opinion on whether it destroys it or not.  But I'm game.

 

It doesn't destroy anything if it is just pixels that has no effect on gameplay other than cosmetics.

 

You can say something fairly easily, but it's much harder to actually explain and defend it.  So I need you to explain why a certain suit (Notice I never said camo) would give your character an advantage.  Also note that I mentioned a banana suit.  This could also be a legit tuxedo or something else.  It would actually give you a disadvantage.

 

No matter.  The point was that a CS can actually work in this game.  The point wasn't that it is a good or bad idea.  

 

It's not like I'm calling for Filet Mignon or Rocket Launchers to be sold online.  

Brens right either way, if they could just buy items other people have to work for and scavenge for that ruins the ENTIRE purpose of the game. 

B2P only way or i won't play its simple as that plus NO BLOODY CASHSHOP in a survival game like DayZ, come on thats stupid idea and don't fit in way DayZ is visioned..

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

I guess my point is I dont play to compete with other people, I play to GROUP with other people.  If they spent their money on a cool CS item?  More power to them.  I still get to play/enjoy the game all the same.

This is where you are making your mistake about DayZ. In DayZ it's all about competing with others to survive even members of your own group. When it gets down to the point that your out of food, your food indicator is blinking and your buddy just picked up the only can of beans in an entire town because he says he needs them... Your gonna think long and hard about putting a bullet in his skull for that can of beans. DayZ isn't a game you play... It's a game you feel. It will stir up emotions in yourself you never thought you had. There has never been a game like DayZ.

A CS just wouldn't work because the whole point of the game is to survive... Period. This is what makes it such a great sandbox experience as how you survive is totally up to you. You are dumped into the world with basically nothing but the will to survive. You have to find anything you can to prolong your life. You may have to kill others to accomplish that goal because it will come down to the simple decision... him or me. A CS of any kind would negate that mechanic. The only payment model that would work for this game would be B2P with the option to also buy any expansions that release. No sub and no CS.

Bren