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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Four Reasons BioWare Really Should Consider F2P

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139 posts found

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 322

6/20/12 12:24:51 PM#41

SWTOR is not a well-designed game and is certainly not worth $15/month.  In fact, I would not recommend this game, even when it goes free to play.  The more I think about it, I would not play this game even if EA/BW paid me $15/month.

If you are considering this game, I would compare it to WoW from about 4 years ago, though not as polished (buggy) and not feature friendly to groups, raid, and guilds.  I think the group in BW that screwed this up is still making decisions about the game's future (James O.), so I don't think there's any reason to hope SWTOR will ascend.


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1835

6/20/12 12:31:10 PM#42
Originally posted by jessie360

The subscription model paradigm is shifting to other modes of revenue generation.  The subscription model is becoming outdated and the fact that many games are going free to play or launching that way, and staying successful, shows that this model is the current trend.  While we may eventually see a resurgence in the future of the subscription model, they will never be dominant again.


It's basic business guys.  Change you model to appeal to what the consumer's demands are.  A small percentage of people willing to pay a sub ("Don't do what the majority wants!") doesn't mean a company is going to be profitable.  In the end, businesses don't care about being trendy or serving their small, elite fanbase - they care about increasing revenue and expanding their market.

I could be way off-base but I don't think it's the PAYMENT model that is making many of todays MMO's unpopular......hint, it might actualy have something to do with the quality of the PRODUCT.


P.S. Basic business.... it's NOT the number of USERS you get but the number of SALES that determines your revenue. As a business, you are going to be more proffitable getting  100 users who are paying $15 per month each then you are getting 1000 users paying on average $1.25 per month.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 1062

6/20/12 12:32:57 PM#43

Originally posted by Leethe

Originally posted by Yalexy Every F2P-title outthere requires you to spend alot of money in the cashshop, if you're interested in PvP or raiding, so F2P is a total myth.  
Lol this is exactly the kind of hyperbole that makes the F2P haters looks so out of date. Everyone knows that you may have to spend some money. Everyone also knows that how much you spend is entirely up to you. Some will spend nothing, others a lot more. This is common knowledge now so can we stop  with the rabid exclaimations? Don't blame the business model. Blame the developer for trying to sell a 2004 game in 2012.

It's not hyperbole, it's proven facts during the last years.

If you don't spend money, then you can't play competitive.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1410

6/20/12 12:33:01 PM#44

I would not mind the F2P unless my regular sub fee does not include all the content.  Games like STO where they add new ships with special powers that can only be purchased as an extra drive me nuts.  If a guy pays a sub fee for a F2P game, he should get all the content.  He should not have to wait 5 months to earn enough points to buy it or even worse, buy keys to open the loot drops. 


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3067

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

6/20/12 12:33:17 PM#45

(1) options are beter for players and developers  --  hmmm maybe so but I really don't buy that at this point

(2) subscription model is dying -  No I don't think that is the problem either.  What we had with swtor is the sub model that offered very little at end game and most folks don't play for something they no longer want to play because there is not enough in the game to keep your attention

(3) Competition is looming - this is very true and I think swtor will get steamrolled.

(4) Game population is in decline - this is also very true.  You have to ask yourself why the subscription base is dying I could write 30 pages plus.  I will go with this small rant.  The devs are incompetent, they tried to make kotor3 and gave us broken single player game with very little reason to do broken game content, and at the end of the game the only thing to do was run dailies or roll alts.

Honestly I think ea/bioware are in for hard times.   Sure folks subbed back up for moving with the server transfers, but they probably canceled already, and after the new 1.3 wears off there will be more decline, that is if we get 1.3.



Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

6/20/12 12:35:09 PM#46

The game has never been made that provides enough new content every month to justify $15/month.  People who continue to pay subs either have a lot of extra money to burn, or they are suckers, it's really that simple.  I think TOR is a great game, the most fun MMO for my tastes that has ever been released, and I still won't be renewing when my six month sub expires, because the subscription model is a bad joke.  Charge us for new content, not for continued access to content we already paid for.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2421

6/20/12 12:39:51 PM#47

There isn't enough extra crap to throw money away on as F2P and will most likely have items of power/convinence in the cash shop. If that happens I'll be pissed, quit, and never play a themepark game ever again. This was my last.

But hey this is EA, they are willing to tell the core fans to F*ck off if they can get some casuals with deep pockets.

I agree with Creslin, beacuse of the design (lacking as MMO and more SP) it should have been B2P from the begining. The design doesn't exactly make for a good F2P model as does P2P.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1430

6/20/12 12:45:40 PM#48

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Originally posted by jessie360 The subscription model paradigm is shifting to other modes of revenue generation.  The subscription model is becoming outdated and the fact that many games are going free to play or launching that way, and staying successful, shows that this model is the current trend.  While we may eventually see a resurgence in the future of the subscription model, they will never be dominant again.   It's basic business guys.  Change you model to appeal to what the consumer's demands are.  A small percentage of people willing to pay a sub ("Don't do what the majority wants!") doesn't mean a company is going to be profitable.  In the end, businesses don't care about being trendy or serving their small, elite fanbase - they care about increasing revenue and expanding their market.
I could be way off-base but I don't think it's the PAYMENT model that is making many of todays MMO's unpopular......hint, it might actualy have something to do with the quality of the PRODUCT.


P.S. Basic business.... it's NOT the number of USERS you get but the number of SALES that determines your revenue. As a business, you are going to be more proffitable getting  100 users who are paying $15 per month each then you are getting 1000 users paying on average $1.25 per month.


its funny that people think the business model has anything to do with it when the most successful mmo out there still has a sub. F2P isnt new. Neither is B2P. They were around when wow launched. Wow shattered them and everything else. Plenty of people find their business model appropriate. If anything the ezmode gameplay and onslaught of pandas (i actually dont have problems with pandas, but ..) are what have brought it down slightly.

These games are going F2P because they are not worth $15 a month, and their respective devs don't know how to make them worth $15 a month.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/10/12
Posts: 84

6/20/12 12:46:03 PM#49

Since the (albeit limited) server transfers, the game doesn't feel dead at all. Quite the opposite.

I play with IRL friends, and we all enjoy it, so I think  it's mostly worth the sub cost. I've yet to play a F2P game that I've liked, so I don't really care if it happens or not.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/09
Posts: 112

6/20/12 12:54:49 PM#50

SWTOR is an average game, period. Personally I dont find it worth a monthly  sibscription. the only thing they did really well was thier CGI Trailers.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/07
Posts: 347

6/20/12 12:56:23 PM#51

I wish developers would ALSO consider alternatives OTHER than just F2P versus subscription-based at $15/month, as if those were the only two options available. They're not.

Two other major alternatives are (1) B2P and (2) games with lower subscription rates (say, $5 or $10/month). In my opinion, very VERY few games are worth $15/month, month after month after month, unless you happen to be a really dedicated player and gaming is your primary source of entertainment.

Games such as STO, LotRO, and SWTOR are perfectly fine games, but they are NOT worth $15/month. The former 2 wised up to that fact; I hope SWTOR/Bioware does, too. If not, the game is going to be devastated by the release of GW2, imo.

I do think that SWTOR would be financially viable if they switched to B2P or at least greatly lessened their monthly subscription fee. Most F2P schemes that I have seen are pretty nasty, imo, as they tend to nickel and dime you to pieces in a cash shop.

B2P, however, allows you to purchase the game, play it fully for as long as you want, and then pay for "big ticket items" such as extra character slots, character transfers/renames, mounts, DLC, new campaigns, etc. It is the type of business model I like best, in today's MMO market -- I much prefer it to F2P. I think most players wouldn't mind buying a game outright; it's the being "bled to death slowly" via MTs for essentials needed to play the game and/or high-priced monthly subs that drive people away from most MMOs.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/10
Posts: 140

6/20/12 12:56:35 PM#52
Originally posted by Stevenra

Yeah because playing games in which kids just steal their parents credit cards and buy items that should only be earned is a real fun way too play games....Get real any game that goes pay too win deserves to bomb.  Stop trying to speak for everyone that games the majority dosnt want this type of platform of paying.

F2P != P2W

Stop trying to speak for everyone; the majority of gamers do not, in fact, play a game with a subscription cost. 


Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/11
Posts: 152

6/20/12 12:57:24 PM#53

I wouldn't play it for free mostly because I'm certain Bioware would screw it up somehow.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 8

6/20/12 1:02:10 PM#54

Face it immature casual gamers just want to buy items and not spend time/effort in earning them.  free too play is called pay too win for a reason.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/11
Posts: 268

6/20/12 1:26:46 PM#55

I prefer subscription. It baffles me that people are so cheap regarding what is esentially a hobby.  I don't know average income in other countries than mine but the fee here roughly translates into a pc/car magazine and a bag of chips, no big deal. If it is then you have problems and gaming should take a backseat.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/07
Posts: 200

6/20/12 1:46:15 PM#56

Once guild wars 2 is out why would anyone want to spend 15 dollars a month to an inferior product whereas GW2 will offer the best next gen gameplay, e-sport PvP, revolutionary mass combat World vs World and the most refreshing take on PVE with their dynamic events all for no subcription money?

SWTOR and others will see the writing on the wall. Subscription MMO's are on their last legs, future generations will find the idea of paying a subcription to play an online game as insane as paying money per minute to go online (dial up).  


Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2857

First came pride, then envy.

6/20/12 2:03:01 PM#57

Biggest budget for a video game ever, and 6 months in, it's probably going f2p.  If that's not a failure, then i don't know what it is. lol.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/05
Posts: 1035

"Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate, Hate leads to Suffering" -Master Yoda

6/20/12 2:40:21 PM#58

Like the saying goes: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Which means I wouldn't play SWTOR again even if it was free. The subscription price is not SWTOR's problem, far from it.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/11
Posts: 217

6/20/12 3:09:04 PM#59

F2p isnt going to save swtor. The pricing isnt the issue the issue is incompetent/arrogant devs.  If tor was to go f2p it would see ahuge rise in numbers the first week/month but not many long term actual subs, Youll have a bunch of people getting to lvl15 then 9/10 of those people will leave.


Until james ohlen and gabe ametegelo are fired this game will always be a pile of bantha poo b/c they think and believe they have an awesome game with 1 mill subs and declining.

Like i said this game "could" have destroyed wow and gotten its 10 mil players had enough hype to do it but due to incompetent leadership and beyond poor development it only got a mill? 1 mill is fine but why settle for 1 mill?


Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 435

6/20/12 3:16:29 PM#60

Insert factless comment about F2P games here.

Insert pointless comment supporting F2P games from those speaking against them here.

Insert how P2P is for real players here.

There, I just summed up all threads ever created about F2P.

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