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EVE Online

EVE Online 

Jita (General)  » Seriously WHY?!

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72 posts found
  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

6/20/12 4:25:03 AM#41


Originally posted by VassagoMael

Yeah if you get podded with an inadequate clone you lose skill points. I think that is garbage and needs to be thrown out, especially in a training over time kind of game.

Mistakes do have consequences, even such silly mistakes... I guess you will remember next time :)

(The SP loss is limited to highest ranked, highest trained skill with a hard cap of 2M or so)

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

6/20/12 4:25:05 AM#42

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

6/20/12 4:30:12 AM#43


Originally posted by Polypropylen

Thanks man, you got it!

I am afraid he did not, his point of view is just very limited.

If you were able to insure everything, economically, the demand for new ships would be kept but the ship loss would become meaningless which is also a part of the game design and have it's role in the game.


It would be like PVP with instant respawns...mindless frag game.

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

6/20/12 4:31:31 AM#44
Originally posted by Polypropylen
Originally posted by Corehaven
Originally posted by BigHatLogan

What fun is building stuff if there is never any risk of it getting torn down?  And think of the litter!  People would build shit all over the place and then quit and no one would ever be able to get rid of it.

 

 I totally agree with the OP.  Thats why I quit.  I was no kind of "real" EvE player in the end I guess.  I made more than enough to buy plexes and play for free. 

 

Here's the real question.  Why build stuff if there is a risk of it getting torn down?  Because my ship cost about 3.5 billion all said and done.  That was a lot to me because never dabbled in the economy much.  Yea I sold basic materials all the time and bought, but nothing major.   If that ship got destroyed it would take most of my resources or all to replace it.  If that got destroyed Im out. 

 

I just quit before that happened.  Now loosing a clone I never worried about.  Thats easy to keep up with.  But loosing a ship?  I barely ever indulged in PVP for that reason.  Its just not worth it to me.   Its too extreme.  I dont mind a loss.  I do mind total devastation if it happens. 

 

You know this whole loosing your ship permanently is why many players quit.  Lets put a mechanic into the game where if a ship, carefully modded and took major investement to set up, gets defeated its gone forever.  Thats NOT a good mechanic.  You might like it. 

 

But EvE would have been far more successful and far more profitable without it.  Period.  Like I said, I dont mind a loss of some kind.  I do mind the total devastation when it occurs.  To where you just want to quit.   EvE is flawed in that way, and always will be.  Which is why it doesnt have mass amounts of players. 

 

Plus the crafting is incredibly complicated.  Missions at level 4 require you looking them up online to see how to go about it because if you dont figure out the spawn relations between the battle groups, you get slaughtered.  Thats just silly.  EvE has a lot of problems the stubborn developers just wont ever change.  Because its their vision.  I can actually respect that.  I just dont have to play it. 

 

Gave it 6 months.  Had a good time.  Burned out. 

 

Thanks man, you got it!

But in my opinion the total loss of a ship just makes sense in this game, so if a developer would make a EVE clone with said improvements keep the destruction! But it should be possible to make an insurance for EVERYTHING, not just the ship without its fitting!

 

 

Well insurance is really not anything significant either.  Even for the ships.  Id appreciate 70% of the worth of my ship for insurance and the same for my mods at least. 

 

Then?  I might venture out more.  Its really harsh as is.  You dont even get anything much if you loose your ship.  Much less the mods and the configuration as a whole. 

 

But its just slightly too harsh for me to dig into PVP.  Proably the core meat of the game. 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/20/12 4:36:38 AM#45
Originally posted by Gdemami

Originally posted by VassagoMael

I'm sure I'll be assaulted as a carebear, but all I do in EVE is PVP and in my opinion SP loss, just like the learning skills, is an outdated idea that needs to go. The loss of implants should be sufficient death penalty, not SP just because you forget to do some super routine. Never had it happen to me, but it would really suck.

Your point isn't very clear here. SP loss?

One really has to go some in order for that to happen. You have to have your ship blown up and then get podded, and even then you only lose SP if you forgot to upgrade your clone. Also, PVPing with your good implant in is kinda crazy but, just like the UO players that would bring a silver broadswordof vanquishing to a PVP battle, people do it. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/20/12 4:40:26 AM#46
Originally posted by Corehaven

But its just slightly too harsh for me to dig into PVP.  Proably the core meat of the game. 

The only people PvPing in expensive ships wardec smaller noob corps and demand a ransom, and know full well that they can sit out front 24-hours a day and smoke whatever sticks it's head out.

Everyone else sets a PvP budget and uses cheap ships they don't mind losing. Makes me wonder if there is any way to actually *make* money by PvPing... besides ransoming.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
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  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

6/20/12 4:44:40 AM#47


Originally posted by Corehaven

Well insurance is really not anything significant either.Even for the ships.

Not a long ago, you could make money off the insurance by buying a ship form market and blowing it up.

But I guess that getting more money from insurance than you paid for your ship is not "significant" in your book...


I do not want to sound mean but you just make very unfounded assumptions.

EVE is huge and complex and I encourage you to take it easy, shrug off all prejudices you have and explore the game.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3210

"A very special kind of stupidity"

6/20/12 8:06:46 AM#48
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Corehaven

But its just slightly too harsh for me to dig into PVP.  Proably the core meat of the game. 

The only people PvPing in expensive ships wardec smaller noob corps and demand a ransom, and know full well that they can sit out front 24-hours a day and smoke whatever sticks it's head out.

Everyone else sets a PvP budget and uses cheap ships they don't mind losing. Makes me wonder if there is any way to actually *make* money by PvPing... besides ransoming.

 

"Cheap" is relative. In one sense you are absolutely correct: I rarely undock in a ship that's worth more than, oh, 5% of my total assets. On the other hand, I have a lot of assets and plenty of liquid ISK, so it's not a big deal for me to fly nicely fitted Tech 3s and pirate faction ships worth 750mill or a bill. And I'm really not even that rich by EVE standards - prosperous middle class at best.

By now I'm good enough at not losing ships that I can pretty much live off my accumulated assets and ISK for very long periods of time. My major motivation to not lose ships now isn't so much that I'll have to pay to replace them, but that I'll shit up our killboard. Plus personal pride I guess.

It's theoretically possible to make ISK PvPing, but in practice, PvP is a negative-sum game, so it's only possible for a small minority. The percentage of the total value of a destroyed ship that's recoverable as loot and salvage is usually pretty small. PvP for most is what you get ISK for, not what you get ISK with.

Those who do make worthwhile ISK PvPing are people who do things like Freighter gank ops. People usually then tell them that attacking "helpless" cargo ships for ISK "isn't real PvP". As if real life pirates were chivalrous sea-knights who wouldn't lower themselves to attack fat merchant ships, but sought combat with navy battleships for "good fights" :eyeroll:

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  FastSloth

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 144

6/20/12 8:08:08 AM#49
Originally posted by GTwander

I laugh at the idea that arguing that "so-and-so is a crybaby, and thusly not cut out to play EVE" is a solid stance that CCP is willing to take on your behalf. Historical evidence has shown they cater to said crybabies, and will continue to tweak the game in order to appeal to a 'broader audience' (*hiss*... not *that* word).

Long story short, you're f**king with their money.

Source?

 

Historical evidence?

 

Also, what's "my behalf"? I don't do pew pew. I'm a trader. But I know how Eve is played and what the game is designed for. Do you even play or is this another subforum that you frequently post rubbish in without any real clue?

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

6/20/12 8:34:16 AM#50


Originally posted by FastSloth

Source?


Right there:
www.eve-online.com

Over the years CCP has made many changes catering to "crybabies" and people not so much minded about risk and PVP.

Afterall, that is what the most populated game space is for. CCP would be silly to ignore it because believe it or not, even "losers and crybabies" are paying customers and seems they are quite a number of them.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2401

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/20/12 8:40:22 AM#51
Originally posted by BigHatLogan

What fun is building stuff if there is never any risk of it getting torn down?  And think of the litter!  People would build shit all over the place and then quit and no one would ever be able to get rid of it.

Why that sounds a lot like Star Wars Galaxies, but it couldn't be, much like Guild Wars 2 you're ot allowed  to speak ill of that game on this site...

 

As for the original post. I don't think the game needs changing, in a "sandbox" game the people become the hero through their own actions, not from a story line or some such. 

Now if someone could just make EvE but with dragons and swords and wizards and the like... Then again, it would be kind of odd to see 20 spaceships standing in the bazaar telling Chuck Norris "jokes"...

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Calfis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/15/11
Posts: 347

6/20/12 9:13:27 AM#52
Originally posted by Slampig

Now if someone could just make EvE but with dragons and swords and wizards and the like... Then again, it would be kind of odd to see 20 spaceships standing in the bazaar telling Chuck Norris "jokes"...

You would be standing in a bazaar and then suddenly 20 fat norsemen with bees tattooed to their arms would swoop in ungracefully and gank you.

  Polypropylen

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/09
Posts: 29

 
OP  6/20/12 10:32:49 AM#53

Again:

I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE EVE !!!!

I asked "seriously why" is there no other game developer who recognized this market niche?

Making a game like EVE, with many different spaceships, with a huge world, with total loss of the ship BUT with better insurance, WITH BETTER PVE, WITH A STORY and better UI and tutorials...

  Saxonblade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 286

6/20/12 11:06:40 AM#54
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by Corehaven

But its just slightly too harsh for me to dig into PVP.  Proably the core meat of the game. 

The only people PvPing in expensive ships wardec smaller noob corps and demand a ransom, and know full well that they can sit out front 24-hours a day and smoke whatever sticks it's head out.

Everyone else sets a PvP budget and uses cheap ships they don't mind losing. Makes me wonder if there is any way to actually *make* money by PvPing... besides ransoming.

You really have never played this game have you, go look at what PL flys lol, or NC. or Raiden., I could go on and on but you never made it far in this or you would know what you posted is utter rubbish.

  VassagoMael

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 523

6/20/12 12:28:36 PM#55
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by VassagoMael

Yeah if you get podded with an inadequate clone you lose skill points. I think that is garbage and needs to be thrown out, especially in a training over time kind of game.

 

Mistakes do have consequences, even such silly mistakes... I guess you will remember next time :)

(The SP loss is limited to highest ranked, highest trained skill with a hard cap of 2M or so)

I clearly stated that this hadn't happened to me.

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  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

6/20/12 12:41:34 PM#56


Originally posted by Polypropylen

Making a game like EVE, with many different spaceships, with a huge world, with total loss of the ship BUT with better insurance, WITH BETTER PVE, WITH A STORY and better UI and tutorials...

Erm, where is the "EVE like" part...?

Also, not point posting this in EVE forums...

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 7157

6/20/12 12:42:51 PM#57


Originally posted by VassagoMael

I clearly stated that this hadn't happened to me.

I was not talking about you in particular either, just made a point...

  Zaltark

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/06
Posts: 430

6/20/12 12:47:40 PM#58

I actually re-subbed. I played the beta for TSW and just felt like it was meh. Really not many sandboxes to choose from.

  mklinic

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/05
Posts: 1437

6/20/12 12:51:27 PM#59
Originally posted by Polypropylen

Again:

I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE EVE !!!!

I asked "seriously why" is there no other game developer who recognized this market niche?

Making a game like EVE, with many different spaceships, with a huge world, with total loss of the ship BUT with better insurance, WITH BETTER PVE, WITH A STORY and better UI and tutorials...

I think a number of people get that, but you are posting this in the EvE forum so, when you say an "EvE-like game with different features" a lot of people will naturally think about it in terms of how EvE would change to accomodate that. It's a matter of perspective. This would probably be much better off in a "General" forum saying something along the lines of "a space based game with lots of ships, a huge game world, and 'feature x, y ,and z'". Maybe identifying those pieces of EvE you like, and then taking the "EvE" name, and posters, out of the equation, might produce better results. Who knows, someone might even point you to an existing game that you hadn't yet considered.

-mklinic

"There's a point I think we're missing.
It's in the air we raise our fists in."
-from Behind Closed Doors by Rise Against

  tordurbar

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 407

6/20/12 12:54:55 PM#60
Originally posted by Zaltark

Eve is about PvP and PKing. Sure you could try playing the game solo (Ive played mostly as an explorer with cloaking) but to really enjoy the game like other say you have to have a group of people to fly with. If not for protection from other players, then even at minimum to kill the PvE ships for good loot. Even when mining (which some say you can do solo) youll be targetted by PvP.

Thats just the way EvE is. Its a game full of gankers and scammers.

This is why I played two months and quit. I agree with the OP - the game is awesome. However, it is a totally pvp game and no place for care bears (like me).  Similar to ANet with Guild Wars 2 I respect the developers for keeping true to their gaming philopsophy. I am not asking CCP to change the design of their game (though I do think that if they made 0.9 space non-attackable they would pick up a battleship load of players). That is the way they made their game. Fine. It is just not for me. They are ok with that and I am too.

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