Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't care about housing in a game. Glad they don't really focus on it because that would be less people on the dev team focusing on the actual game if you have to have a barbie's dream house division, which a small percentage of the players will actually only use.

Its kinda of weird if your sitting in your room already to log into a game to sit in a room.

Housing is like small useless pets to me, I use neither so I don't care about it. I don't care about your ultra rare only drops in a little cave once in a year little frog pet so put it away. I would like it if you could kill little pets for fun or at least punt them.

Well as you can see I don't care about housing or little pets.

And yet you like to dress up your Ken Doll with all the latest raid gear.  Just admit it.  That's what gear in MMOs is about, playing dress up with your Ken and Barbie.  It's okay to admit you like to play with dolls.  *woosh woosh* Watch Ken disco dance through the raid - he's so stylin!

We play in a visual medium.  It's only natural that people want to enhance that whether it's the paper doll they adventure with or the small piece of real estate they're allowed to design.

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Originally posted by MMOExposed
 

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  Player Housing IS possible. It just is not a priority. If people do not like the game or if they do not find the game fun, they will not build a house.   

    The reasons make sense though. You could create the best housing feature-set we have ever seen in a game but if nobody enjoys the game to that point, they will not stick around just to have a cool house.?  

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Seem as if developers now days see no importance in this feature known as player housing. The quote has a point. If Developers put too much resources into Housing over other features, than players may not be interested in the game and wont build houses regardless of how detailed that feature is.but why has this feature been tossed under the bus over the last few years?seem like this feature has become very unpopular in the developers offices lately.Player Housing seem like a dynamic feature that gives players something to do when raiding/leveling/other grinds come to a end. Seem like a win win feature from a consumer point of view, but not from a developer.What turn of events causes this?

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Edit .. wrong post

Originally posted by k-damage

"Player Housing - Why has this feature gone from a priority to a feature most developers couldnt care about?"

Because nobody, except the owner, cares about other people's virtual house.

Even though you worded your argument completely wrong, I'm going to assume you mean that people only care about their own homes.

Putting whether or not thats true completely aside - why is that a bad thing? If players have something that they care about for their character / in the world, its irrelevant whether or not other people care about it. It gives players enjoyment and attatchment, I cant see how that could possibly be a bad thing. Its like vanity pets, or customising your armor/appearance, or dozens of other features and elements to the game that only you care about your own personal things - which is completely understandable - but that doesnt, in the least, make them bad.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't care about housing in a game. Glad they don't really focus on it because that would be less people on the dev team focusing on the actual game if you have to have a barbie's dream house division, which a small percentage of the players will actually only use.

Its kinda of weird if your sitting in your room already to log into a game to sit in a room.

Housing is like small useless pets to me, I use neither so I don't care about it. I don't care about your ultra rare only drops in a little cave once in a year little frog pet so put it away. I would like it if you could kill little pets for fun or at least punt them.

Well as you can see I don't care about housing or little pets.

And yet you like to dress up your Ken Doll with all the latest raid gear.  Just admit it.  That's what gear in MMOs is about, playing dress up with your Ken and Barbie.  It's okay to admit you like to play with dolls.  *woosh woosh* Watch Ken disco dance through the raid - he's so stylin!

We play in a visual medium.  It's only natural that people want to enhance that whether it's the paper doll they adventure with or the small piece of real estate they're allowed to design.

I don't raid either. I hate gear grinds and pvp battle grounds, they ruined MMO's for me. I like large scale PvP if its going to be implemented in a game, even some open world PvP. I also like crafting armor or weapons.

Originally posted by just1opinion

 

Both good responses.  I appreciate both, thank you.  However, I DID spend a good deal of time in my house.  I did crafting in my house too and in EQ2 you actually (well...used to anyway, I'm not sure about now, I've been gone over 6 mths) can make a "living" in the game via your crafting.  My cook made a small fortune because of the need for raid foods and drinks.

 

Anyway....no one can change my mind about housing being important for ME.  I know most young kids playing games now don't care at all about it, which is fine.  I go with the flow to keep gaming, BUT....I will never be as committed to a game that does not give me my own personal space to grow and build.  That's just me, but it's 100 PERCENT me.  Housing in a game makes the game more robust to me and makes me more apt to continue to be a part of said game as well.

Just I totally agree with you, as a gamer. Then the cynic in me looks at it from a developer PoV, or worse yet, an investor one.

"Well, Jim, it shows that the average player spends 90.234% of their time running around doing quests in MMOs. And 5.2% of the time in their house."

"Yes, Mr Moneybags."

"Well, they like that questing stuff. MORE QUESTS! And do some funny cat in the internet references too, the kids love those right? Maybe some Pokeymans?"

"Yes, Mr Moneybags"

And so good features get scrapped. The way to make player housing a priority for a dev is to show them the larger majortiy of players not only want one, but willl spend enough time there and get enough out of it to make it more attractive.

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Fearum

I really don't care about housing in a game. Glad they don't really focus on it because that would be less people on the dev team focusing on the actual game if you have to have a barbie's dream house division, which a small percentage of the players will actually only use.

Its kinda of weird if your sitting in your room already to log into a game to sit in a room.

Housing is like small useless pets to me, I use neither so I don't care about it. I don't care about your ultra rare only drops in a little cave once in a year little frog pet so put it away. I would like it if you could kill little pets for fun or at least punt them.

Well as you can see I don't care about housing or little pets.

And yet you like to dress up your Ken Doll with all the latest raid gear.  Just admit it.  That's what gear in MMOs is about, playing dress up with your Ken and Barbie.  It's okay to admit you like to play with dolls.  *woosh woosh* Watch Ken disco dance through the raid - he's so stylin!

We play in a visual medium.  It's only natural that people want to enhance that whether it's the paper doll they adventure with or the small piece of real estate they're allowed to design.

I don't raid either. I hate gear grinds and pvp battle grounds, they ruined MMO's for me. I like large scale PvP if its going to be implemented in a game, even some open world PvP. I also like crafting armor or weapons.

You obviously missed the point.  Raiding, pvp, crafting, etc., different name same concept.  We all play dress up Barbie Dreamhouse with our 'toons' or characters.  One person crafts their dress-up.  Another pvps for their dress up and to showcase their status.  Another raids for it.  We all do it for rewards we can display or track our progress with.  In a visual medium this is often done outwardly, but it includes titles and achievement lists.  That's all housing is, a visual way to display and design your progress through a game.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Xssiv

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by nilden

I really like the point about player owned structures. In SWG I got to visit player run shopping malls, small shops, a zoo that charged admission, player run hospitals, an art gallery, guild cities with mission terminals and shuttles, harvesters, etc etc.

Players run stores are highly inefficient compared to AH. Can you imagine the outcry for a MMO without a AH and have to rely on player owned store. Imagine the horror of having to sort through 1000 stores to find a good deal.

And if there is a AH, there is no need for a player own store.

Absolutely not.  SWG had AH terminals in every city (Bizarres) and also had plenty of player run shops.   Since crafting quality wasn't static, you could often find items with way better stats at a player shop rather than the AH.  

I remember taking a 20 minute trip (each way) to visit a player shop that had awesome weapons and it was always worth the trip cause I knew I was getting some of the best possible stats on the stuff I bought there.

 

It will take LONGER for people to search for such items in player's shop. It would be MUCH simpler to put such items on AH (whether the item is static or not .. is irrelevant to whether one can sell it on AH).

Diablo 3 has totally random stats on items and the AH is doing just fine.

Some of the fun in SWG was looking on the Bazzar for something and then taking a trip to a players shop to get it. You never know what might happen (mob encounter) or who you might meet. I was also fun to look around other players houses/cities.

I never once thought of it as inefficient or a burden.

 

Since it's obvious some people never played SWG and got to see the player owned structures and player built cities I'll give a little idea on how shops worked.

There was a galactic market called the bazzar. You could access the bazzar terminals in any major city and search for any item in the galaxy. Once you found the item you wanted you would get a waypoint and go to the planet the shop was on then go to the shop and buy the item. Most of the time the shops were pretty cool to see and you might even run into the owner or other customers.

It was a great way to do a global auction house while still having the player run shops or shopping malls. If you never experienced the economy in SWG you missed out. It was way better than a faceless auction house.

When has Player Housing -EVER- been a priority?

There was no 'sudden change of mind'  about this feature because it has never been a priority.

Originally posted by Vunak23

Because MMORPG's are less about being an MMORPG now and more about being an MMOG.

They are what they have always been, a way to make money.

Don't fool yourself thinking otherwise.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

And yet you like to dress up your Ken Doll with all the latest raid gear.  Just admit it.  That's what gear in MMOs is about, playing dress up with your Ken and Barbie.  It's okay to admit you like to play with dolls.  *woosh woosh* Watch Ken disco dance through the raid - he's so stylin!

We play in a visual medium.  It's only natural that people want to enhance that whether it's the paper doll they adventure with or the small piece of real estate they're allowed to design.

I don't.  I don't raid.  I don't play any endgame content whatsoever.  I never wear any "fashion" gear, if such is available in any particular game.  I play the game.  Period.

Originally posted by Kreedz

When has Player Housing -EVER- been a priority?

 

There was no 'sudden change of mind'  about this feature because it has never been a priority.

 

This, I havnt played a single game where housing was a priority, even in SWG it wasnt a priuortiy, it was just a neat little thing they tossed in the expansion.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Cephus404

Of course it's pragmatic, this is business.  They have X number of programmer hours to spend on development, they have to decide how best to utilize those hours to make the best, most cost effective game that will bring them the biggest ROI for their investors.  The question is solely, where do we put these programmers that will bring us the most bang for our buck?  Player housing, no matter how much some people might want it, just isn't a dealbreaker for most players, whereas many other things absolutely are.

I don't think some of the gamers around here care to think about it. 

That's the problem, lots of gamers just aren't realistic.  They want what they want and who cares if what they want is ridiculous, they still want it.  They don't understand that there are limits and tradeoffs and that developers are in business to make money.

As to the OP's thread title.  Housing might not have been a "priority" but rather the devs throwing out number of different things in a new gaming style and seeing what sticks.  Had housing clearly demonstrated housing as a sales imperative there is no doubt that housing would be here today.

The amusing part is that you guys think that people who want housing are apparently a very small population, combined with this idea of crappy housing you all have in mind, which makes you have this opinion in the first place.  Yeah, people who are into housing are likely something of a minority, but there are more than enough to support the idea financially in games.

You should go back and reread it.

And yet, my answer remains the same, because housing is something that if done correctly, could retain subscribers or gain money through cash shop transactions.

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by lifesbrink

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Cephus404

Of course it's pragmatic, this is business.  They have X number of programmer hours to spend on development, they have to decide how best to utilize those hours to make the best, most cost effective game that will bring them the biggest ROI for their investors.  The question is solely, where do we put these programmers that will bring us the most bang for our buck?  Player housing, no matter how much some people might want it, just isn't a dealbreaker for most players, whereas many other things absolutely are.

I don't think some of the gamers around here care to think about it. 

That's the problem, lots of gamers just aren't realistic.  They want what they want and who cares if what they want is ridiculous, they still want it.  They don't understand that there are limits and tradeoffs and that developers are in business to make money.

As to the OP's thread title.  Housing might not have been a "priority" but rather the devs throwing out number of different things in a new gaming style and seeing what sticks.  Had housing clearly demonstrated housing as a sales imperative there is no doubt that housing would be here today.

The amusing part is that you guys think that people who want housing are apparently a very small population, combined with this idea of crappy housing you all have in mind, which makes you have this opinion in the first place.  Yeah, people who are into housing are likely something of a minority, but there are more than enough to support the idea financially in games.

You should go back and reread it.

And yet, my answer remains the same, because housing is something that if done correctly, could retain subscribers or gain money through cash shop transactions.

You haven't proven anyting. You can claim things and pretend it's true about making money.  Her is a point.  HOUSING HAS EXISTED IN MMORPGS.  IF IT WAS SUCH A BIG DEAL AND MAJOR ROI, IT WOULD BE IN MOST GAMES.  It isn't.   That''s the problem with your claim.

Sometimes I like player housing in my games and sometimes I don't. I don't use it as a negative when judging any games though. I think of player housing as an extra feature and would rather see developers work on story, combat, and game play before worrying about the extras.

Originally posted by Cephus404

Originally posted by GreenHell

But having it half-ass isn't anything that would interest me and to be honest, I don't see any game putting the kind of time and effort into it to make it as expansive as it would really need to be to be worthwhile.  I also really don't see it possible to make a game that would be popular and financially successful if you had to build in all of those things.  Player cities and the like just aren't important to people today.  It's one of those things that, if you were fantasizing, it would be nice to have.  We just don't live in a fantasy world though.

I never said it would deprive me of anything, I said that developers only have so much time and money to spend on things.  If they spend that time on housing, they have to spend less time on something else.  That's reality.  Like it or not, gear grinds sell.  They make money.  Player housing doesn't.

My point was you have to start somewhere. Can you tell me the last game that failed due to having housing? Is there a new game that has even tried housing from the begining? It seems to me like there is a preconceptiuon that it would fail. Im not really sure why that is. You could have a themepark game with meaningful housing. It could still have all of those money making gear grinding features. I really don't believe starting with housing that isnt complex and then building to that in future patches and expansion would break the bank during development.

This is a feature that if you hated it you wouldn't even have to bother with it. It would not have any adverse effect on you at all. You could still get on that gear grind hamster wheel and play the game you want while other people who enjoy it could play the game they want. i dont see how this is a negative thing at all.

No, it didn't and I have no respect for people who have to dickwave, sorry.  Just because people do it doesn't mean I have to like it.

Hell I can't stand it but the point was removing housing did nothing to stop it. In fact now it is a constant in your face type of thing. I'd rather have it locked away in their house where I don't have to see it all of the time.

 

Did wow have it? There is your answer.

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by Kreedz

When has Player Housing -EVER- been a priority?

 

There was no 'sudden change of mind'  about this feature because it has never been a priority.

 

This, I havnt played a single game where housing was a priority, even in SWG it wasnt a priuortiy, it was just a neat little thing they tossed in the expansion.

EVE Online.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by warmaster670

Originally posted by Kreedz

When has Player Housing -EVER- been a priority?

 

There was no 'sudden change of mind'  about this feature because it has never been a priority.

 

This, I havnt played a single game where housing was a priority, even in SWG it wasnt a priuortiy, it was just a neat little thing they tossed in the expansion.

EVE Online.

Which is only avable to an elite group . Hardly a priority.

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Did wow have it? There is your answer.

You are right. My guess would be if WoW added housing tomorrow all of the new games would be scrambling to add it.  As WoW ages it wont suprise me at all if they add some form of housing or guild hall. It will happen. Hell they are running out things to do and Blizzard does nothing better than recycling other peoples ideas and making them better.

One overlooked reason devs may want to not bother with housing is the douchebag factor.  Create an awesome housing system and there is a 100% chance that some Mortal Online/Darkfall douchebag is going to demand that they be able to burn down your house and steal all your stuff.

Trying to build a system to avoid or minimize that results in systems like instanced or specially protected private housing that ends up feeling half-assed and lazy.  The other option is to build out a full structure damage/defense siege system for housing and towns that may not even fit the orginal game concept.