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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Devs Considering F2P?

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87 posts found
  Lonzo

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/05/04
Posts: 156

6/16/12 6:47:28 AM#61

it is so sad what Bioware did with the Star Wars licence... :-( I would have assumed that this would have been Funcom or Cryptic... but Bioware!? So sad...

 

They should screw this game and start to work on a huge SWG2! ....

  tv2zulu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 72

6/16/12 7:01:40 AM#62
Originally posted by Olgark

Predicted this would happen 6 months after it launch when it was still in beta. The forum community at the time laughed at me. The game is ok but its not a decent enough quality for a AAA sub.

Just so you know, we're still laughing. Come back when it actually happens.

I hate SWTOR as much as the player next to me, for being a disappointment, but I'm seriously starting to think MMO players have a learning disability when I see what people write and conclude, after reading that paragraph.

  User Deleted
6/16/12 1:13:08 PM#63

Actually the owners (EA Lead Director) has stated there isn't a time frame but that they "definitely" will be doing a F2P version in the future to deliver to the public what the public demands. So Apparently it's no longer a maybe. EA is taking the wheel once again.

Can't say we didn't tell you folks. Those of us who know that the subscription models are dieing off tried to let everyone here know that these games can't be sustained by subs alone anymore. The economy in it's present state in both Europe and US can't sustain a monthly fee on games anymore. This combined with the new way gamers play games, jump on jump off, just isn't sound anymore. It will be interesting to see what happens to TSW and Archeage when they release.

  Wicoa

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1569

6/16/12 1:34:53 PM#64
Originally posted by Illyssia
Originally posted by Alot

 


Originally posted by marz.at.play
Oh boy...here we go! Release the floodgates.

 

Release the Kraken!

More like release the trolls...

 

SWTOR is a very good game and all Bioware have stated is that they are looking into F2P options. An endless trial is a F2P option for example. However, what would be really cool would be 1-49 F2P and 50 as small sub, with DLC expansions at a small purchase cost. SWTOR is looking good here, heck, it's Star Wars folks! 

Release the kraken troll! Muahah

  User Deleted
6/16/12 7:59:07 PM#65
Originally posted by Illyssia
Originally posted by Alot

 


Originally posted by marz.at.play
Oh boy...here we go! Release the floodgates.

 

Release the Kraken!

More like release the trolls...

 

SWTOR is a very good game and all Bioware have stated is that they are looking into F2P options. An endless trial is a F2P option for example. However, what would be really cool would be 1-49 F2P and 50 as small sub, with DLC expansions at a small purchase cost. SWTOR is looking good here, heck, it's Star Wars folks! 

That's like saying "It's Warcraft Folks!" doesn't mean there isn't huge room for improvement nor does it mean they shouldn't have done better on the release.

 

  faefrost

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 198

6/18/12 9:52:31 PM#66
Originally posted by Xstatic912
@ Alot

But why go F2P when you got about 1mill paying subs?


 

Here's the key problem with SWTOR. It does not matter if it is a good game, a bad game, a game worse than Warhammer, whatever. It was built on an impossible business model. There is virtually no possible set of circumstances under which it can succeed as a standard pay to play subscription game. None. The math just doesn't work.

The problem is the game cost too much damed money to make. Low estimates put it around $250 million US. Others have hinted that development, marketing and licensing hit closer to $500 million. That is between a quarter and a half a billion dollars. US$$$. That makes it by all accounts the most expensive MMO ever, and if not the most expensive video game, than certainly coming real close.

In order to make back those investment numbers within a reasonable time frame Bioware would have had to pretty much steal all of WoW's current and past players, and keep them for at least 18 to 24 months. Think on that. Their path o success and profitability was essentially that they must immediately steal ALL of the competitors customers +1, from day one and maintain them going forward.

That is of course an insane business model. But somehow that is where they ended up. Their current subscriber base is more than enough to support a thriving MMO under most other circumstances. Heck buy all accounts it would easily have been the #2 most succesful MMO ever. But because of how  they financed the thing, and how much money they poured into it, #2 is not good enough to achieve the profits they need. So staff are getting laid off, and they are looking for radically changed business models. It's not the end game. It's not graphics, it's not the devs listening or not listening or whatever. This horse was dead over a year before launch. It's all about the accountants and the math.

WoW became a license to print money because it's subscriptions were able to exceed it's development costs in months instead of the years originally planned. Blizzard, while taking a long time to develop, spent reasonably conservatively. They own the license and IP outright, and were also able to generate additional product revenue streams through related products. SWTOR is a licensed product for Bioware. I think they paid Lucasfilms somewhere close to $100 million for the license alone. And they most likely get 0 of any related products or sub marketing. (Here's a hint. Two of the new Lego Star Wars sets coming out this month are SWTOR ships. The Sith Fury and the Republic Striker. Anyone want to bet whether EA/Bioware is seeing any piece of that at all? Whereas Blizzard has a deal where Megabloks will be releasing World of Warcraft and Starcraft toy sets any time now. Want to make a guestimate on how much Blizzard will be making off of that?) 

It's all about the money. It typically always is.

  Kakkzooka

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/06/11
Posts: 602

6/18/12 10:11:24 PM#67
F2P! That mean the game is doing fantastically! And it's Star Warsy!

Re: SWTOR

"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"

  Yellowbeardd

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 83

6/19/12 4:21:55 AM#68

Love it when i'm right. TOLD YA. SWTOR reminded me so much of AoC and it's launch and crash , so it's gonna end up just like AoC and free to play , don't get me wrong tho AoC is a great game and so is swtor but that is what you get rushing a release without polish in it or some polish.

yellowbeardd Xfire Miniprofile
  Yellowbeardd

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 83

6/19/12 4:26:44 AM#69
Originally posted by faefrost
Originally posted by Xstatic912
@ Alot

But why go F2P when you got about 1mill paying subs?


 

Here's the key problem with SWTOR. It does not matter if it is a good game, a bad game, a game worse than Warhammer, whatever. It was built on an impossible business model. There is virtually no possible set of circumstances under which it can succeed as a standard pay to play subscription game. None. The math just doesn't work.

The problem is the game cost too much damed money to make. Low estimates put it around $250 million US. Others have hinted that development, marketing and licensing hit closer to $500 million. That is between a quarter and a half a billion dollars. US$$$. That makes it by all accounts the most expensive MMO ever, and if not the most expensive video game, than certainly coming real close.

In order to make back those investment numbers within a reasonable time frame Bioware would have had to pretty much steal all of WoW's current and past players, and keep them for at least 18 to 24 months. Think on that. Their path o success and profitability was essentially that they must immediately steal ALL of the competitors customers +1, from day one and maintain them going forward.

That is of course an insane business model. But somehow that is where they ended up. Their current subscriber base is more than enough to support a thriving MMO under most other circumstances. Heck buy all accounts it would easily have been the #2 most succesful MMO ever. But because of how  they financed the thing, and how much money they poured into it, #2 is not good enough to achieve the profits they need. So staff are getting laid off, and they are looking for radically changed business models. It's not the end game. It's not graphics, it's not the devs listening or not listening or whatever. This horse was dead over a year before launch. It's all about the accountants and the math.

WoW became a license to print money because it's subscriptions were able to exceed it's development costs in months instead of the years originally planned. Blizzard, while taking a long time to develop, spent reasonably conservatively. They own the license and IP outright, and were also able to generate additional product revenue streams through related products. SWTOR is a licensed product for Bioware. I think they paid Lucasfilms somewhere close to $100 million for the license alone. And they most likely get 0 of any related products or sub marketing. (Here's a hint. Two of the new Lego Star Wars sets coming out this month are SWTOR ships. The Sith Fury and the Republic Striker. Anyone want to bet whether EA/Bioware is seeing any piece of that at all? Whereas Blizzard has a deal where Megabloks will be releasing World of Warcraft and Starcraft toy sets any time now. Want to make a guestimate on how much Blizzard will be making off of that?) 

It's all about the money. It typically always is.

 

Think you need to do your math again , since it's been proven that a pay to play is a profitable buisness model or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place duuuu. Also they made their money back a long time ago with sales and subs and advertisment and collectables. A company almost makes as much or more every year from advertisment then they would pay to play or free to play.

yellowbeardd Xfire Miniprofile
  Kickaxe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 68

6/19/12 4:42:41 AM#70
Originally posted by faefrost
... Low estimates put it around $250 million US. Others have hinted that development, marketing and licensing hit closer to $500 million...

I'm calling made up figures here.  Low estimates have been around $80 million; high estimates $300 million (ala EALouse); insane estimates > $300 million.  Generally we see $200 million as the current favourite speculative figure.

 

Not that I entirely disagree with some of your other points, however.

  rojo6934

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 4546

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

6/19/12 4:53:45 AM#71

IT is time for the life saver to make his move. Perfect World Entertainment, the salvation of failed sub mmos. lol

EA, sell Swtor with all the BIOWARE team to PWE

"in peace, in sleep under the barren, abandoned soil"

  Moirae

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 2552

6/19/12 8:17:08 AM#72

I hope to hell not. I hate the free to play model. 

  svzurich

Novice Member

Joined: 11/28/06
Posts: 21

6/19/12 9:08:19 AM#73

I too don't log on.  Canceled my sub but still have time left.  Once I maxed Imperial Agent, I was done with the game.

  GettCouped

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 30

6/19/12 12:21:34 PM#74

Misleading title is misleading.

  raistlinm

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/11
Posts: 686

6/19/12 2:45:44 PM#75
Originally posted by Illyssia
Originally posted by Alot

 


Originally posted by marz.at.play
Oh boy...here we go! Release the floodgates.

 

Release the Kraken!

More like release the trolls...

 

SWTOR is a very good game and all Bioware have stated is that they are looking into F2P options. An endless trial is a F2P option for example. However, what would be really cool would be 1-49 F2P and 50 as small sub, with DLC expansions at a small purchase cost. SWTOR is looking good here, heck, it's Star Wars folks! 

Agreed though I hate to hear "it's star wars folks" or "it's Bioware that's why".

If you like par for the course themepark mmo's then TOR is a good game (though they need to do something with pvp from what i hear).

If they do go free to play I personally hope for something like whayt LOTRO does because I have no problem paying a sub and getting a monthly stipend for a cash shop.

  illutian

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/06
Posts: 205

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius

6/19/12 3:24:14 PM#76

Huh? Wasn't it like two weeks ago MMORPG had an article of SWTOR going PARTIALLY Free2Play (think first 20levels free, just like WoW).

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall." - Confucius

  Noyjitat

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 40

6/19/12 3:34:04 PM#77

The games doing better subscriber wise than swg ever did and swg never was going to go free to play. I honestly would stop playing if the game went free to play. Free to play = even less content updates and pay for power. Don't want that.

,

  blackafrica

Novice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 17

Power to the People

6/19/12 4:23:25 PM#78

I played in some of the beta and thought it was a decent game and had potential for a fun single player RPG but was not worth the sub. It also seemed like I would get bored after a few months and stop playing. So I never bought it. If this happens I will play it just to see what the single player storyline is like, but I will be surprised as hell if it actually happens.

  SuperXero89

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2595

6/19/12 4:45:53 PM#79

There was an article on Gamebreaker.tv either about this game or perhaps TERA where I believe Mike B. suggested that it's a good idea for all MMORPGs to start out with a sub fee, moving to the F2P cash shop model once subscriptions decline.  In essense, you get all the revenue from massive box sales and the first couple months worth of sub fees then you can drop the subscription and implement a cash shop.  The initial influx of players purchasing from your cash shop brings you even more money.  From a business standpoint, it's brillliant. 

Even from a player's standpoint, as long as the cash shop doesn't totally unbalance the game (aka force you to purchase from the cash shop to stay competitive), it's a great move.  Even for games like LotRO and EQ2 which have content restricted F2P models, the content that does exist can be seen as a sort of endless free trial.

  matheryn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 4

6/19/12 5:21:24 PM#80

FTP is the going trend with most MMOs on the market these days and even wow aka blizzard is noticing this so it is expected that swtor will go ftp. Personally themepark MMOs lifespan has been estimated between 1-5 years with the exception to WoW whereas Sandbox MMOs lifespans are estimated between 5-10+ years which is why alot of Themepark MMOs are now trying to implement sandbox concepts oh which most are failing.  If a decent true sandbox game were to come onto the market there would be no denying that it would kill all of the current MMOs out there even WoW.

 

The past speaks for itself

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