Originally posted by ajax7

The healing of a SS is over powered you can see it in pvp when it takes 3 players to bring down a healer.

 

Stop Crying your free ride is over!!!

 I agree that they need adjustment, but he was referring to Assasins, not Sorcerors. 

Originally posted by Mardukk

If they had half a brain they would have separated PvE and PvP.  Trying to balance both together usually just pisses people off, and typically screws over PvE in favor of PvP bitching.  Why any serious PvPers would play MMO's I'll never understand.  Go play a game that is 100% fair/skill based.

I basically agree with this post. However, we have PvP and PvE in mmos because, well, players seem to expect it.  I liked Lord of the Rings (LOTR) online because they worked around the balancing conflict using the Player vs. Monster mechanic. As a result, you see much less class nerfing in that game.  It seemed that Bioware tried to separate the two by creating the separate PvP gear sets, but obviously that wasn't enough.

I agree with you Mardukk, in that I also get my PvP fix in non-mmo games. But, there is something compelling about player conflict in a massive online setting, particularly in an open-world format that involves the ability to make changes to the gaming environment. SWTOR isn't going to achieve that and, in fact, the only open world PvP on the PvE servers was Illum and it just didn't work. 

Fallen Earth, which requires aimed attacked (no locking in during combat) made a better attempt at getting skill into PvP rather than just comparative gear strength, but it STILL had many issues with PvP balance making huge changes in the PvE game. I just don't know if it is possible to reconcile the two game aspects?

It's funny because the PVP was one of the most balanced out of any MMO at launch, there were a few problems but generally at end level it was balanced. They started making small changes and they were great but then they ruined the whole balance and feel of combat with 1.2 and so people quit thanx to that fail patch which they stripped half the features out of it before it launched. 

The whiners got their way like they do with every MMO and the developers listened and ruined the balance of the game, basically what happened. So funny though because every post was about how so and so class was over or under powered. It was about every single class and you'd have people complaining about classes I would be owning in. I used to watch that Taugrim guy and he's the most level headed guy I've seen play and he used to do well with every class. 

What developers need to realise is 99% of the people on the forums suck at PVP and blame their failures on class balance.

Originally posted by tixylix

It's funny because the PVP was one of the most balanced out of any MMO at launch, there were a few problems but generally at end level it was balanced. They started making small changes and they were great but then they ruined the whole balance and feel of combat with 1.2 and so people quit thanx to that fail patch which they stripped half the features out of it before it launched. 

The whiners got their way like they do with every MMO and the developers listened and ruined the balance of the game, basically what happened. So funny though because every post was about how so and so class was over or under powered. It was about every single class and you'd have people complaining about classes I would be owning in. I used to watch that Taugrim guy and he's the most level headed guy I've seen play and he used to do well with every class. 

What developers need to realise is 99% of the people on the forums suck at PVP and blame their failures on class balance.

Class "balacing" was done because of PvE and with very little consieration (none to be precise) to PvP.

All the events show that PvP is pretty much on backburner and they are shifting heavily to PvE.

Its unfortunate, from lore and setting perspective SW is one IP that has iconic conflict bulilt in right there. Fighting giant robots and generic giant monsters is not...satisfactory. At least for me.

SINS needed an adjustment, but how they need one more than marauders/sentinels is beyond me. You can literally pop your cool downs and roll your face across your keyboard and beat most classes. Sins need an adjustment back to the pack. Merc healers need a boost and merc dps needs something to make it as viable as vanguard/PT dps, because right now assault spec troopers/BH outshine them badly. The game is horribly out of balance. With that said most games are for most of their life span imho.  

All the complaining is moot though people; this game is destined for f2p. When that happens you'll be able to buy victory no matter what class you are.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by tixylix

It's funny because the PVP was one of the most balanced out of any MMO at launch, there were a few problems but generally at end level it was balanced. They started making small changes and they were great but then they ruined the whole balance and feel of combat with 1.2 and so people quit thanx to that fail patch which they stripped half the features out of it before it launched. 

The whiners got their way like they do with every MMO and the developers listened and ruined the balance of the game, basically what happened. So funny though because every post was about how so and so class was over or under powered. It was about every single class and you'd have people complaining about classes I would be owning in. I used to watch that Taugrim guy and he's the most level headed guy I've seen play and he used to do well with every class. 

What developers need to realise is 99% of the people on the forums suck at PVP and blame their failures on class balance.

Class "balacing" was done because of PvE and with very little consieration (none to be precise) to PvP.

All the events show that PvP is pretty much on backburner and they are shifting heavily to PvE.

Its unfortunate, from lore and setting perspective SW is one IP that has iconic conflict bulilt in right there. Fighting giant robots and generic giant monsters is not...satisfactory. At least for me.

I like pvp myself, but i've never understood this aversion to PVE. If you don't like/want it why play an mmo? There are mmo style pure arena games out now and tons and tons of FPS games. PVE is part of an mmorpg. I think some of you need to properly identify what sort of game it is you really want to play.

Atleast some good alternalives are on the way...

This game was very well balanced prior to 1.2 I have to admit but I left shortly afterward and have not regreted it. I think this game has lost more subs in a shorter amount of time then WAR did that alone should be worthy of an award. Anyone want a Darth Malgus statue I have one here on my desk, what a waste of money.

Originally posted by Portland

BioWare doesnt learn.... many more players will just leave to another game......

Assassin´s get a huge Nerf´s with 1.3

 

The healing generated by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced by approximately 50%. 

>50% ??? Holy crap !! just so ??

The healing generated by Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness has been reduced to 8% in total (down from 12% in total).

>were these 5% gamebreaking or are you just trying to piss of your players ??

 

The armor provided by Combat Technique/Dark Charge has been reduced to +115% (down from 150%).

> even 150% is to less for the low Light Armor and your are reducing it even more ?? Why ?  

 

All these Nerfs lead to frustrated players which will hate to see the new lower numbers during battles. No players want to see 50% lower positive battle numbers on their characters just overnight !

Why not buff the other Tank classes that are all togheter to squishy anyways ? There are no real Tanks in this game  with these little 50-65% Resist Numbers. Shielding just sucks and isnt effective enough. All the Tank classes needed a Buff instead of Nerfs.....

How can BioWare be so far behind reality and ignore the fact that they again loose alot money with this patch ?? The other few class changes are also just a waste of time. They should have better invested their time into Bug Fixing and new content or whatever......

 

I still think it would be the best to replace the whole Developer leading staff as soon as possible, they are just further ruining this game and waste alot of the Investors money...... I feel really sorry to the people that gave their money as an investemt to BioWare. I think the most of it will be wasted soon..

In Addition the whole patch 1.3 is laughable and wont bring back anyone that left the game.This patch is honestly a joke.... 

Balancing SWTOR around PvP and kicking all the PvE players face is just not right !

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/class-changes-and-balance-game-update-1.3

 

 

 

 

 

Coming from an assassin.

I'll never touch that game again, just die and make kotor 3.

Originally posted by KingGator

I like pvp myself, but i've never understood this aversion to PVE. If you don't like/want it why play an mmo? There are mmo style pure arena games out now and tons and tons of FPS games. PVE is part of an mmorpg. I think some of you need to properly identify what sort of game it is you really want to play.

Dont worry, i wait for GW2 patiently.

And whats with aversion to PvE? They screwed up PvP completely, and PvE "balancing" was big part of screwup. Not to mention Ilum.

From your post is clear that YOU have aversion to PvP.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by KingGator

I like pvp myself, but i've never understood this aversion to PVE. If you don't like/want it why play an mmo? There are mmo style pure arena games out now and tons and tons of FPS games. PVE is part of an mmorpg. I think some of you need to properly identify what sort of game it is you really want to play.

Dont worry, i wait for GW2 patiently.

And whats with aversion to PvE? They screwed up PvP completely, and PvE "balancing" was big part of screwup. Not to mention Ilum.

From your post is clear that YOU have aversion to PvP.

lol no dude, I don't;  I spend 1/2 my time pvping, maybe more. That last statment of yours is completely illogical. And there is pve in gw2 from what I understand. You sound like you'd be happier waiting for planetside 2 not guildwars 2.

Originally posted by teakbois

The funny thing is that SWTOR has done more in 6 months than any game besides Rift, and they arent *that* far behind Rift, but people talk as if Bioware has had a glacial pace.  They have addressed the biggest technical aspects of the game.

 ROFLMAO...how do you manage to read what people are posting with those kinds of blinders on?

No really, a patch that gives a moveable UI...its massive, it can be compared to other games patches that give...entire play zones...

Asherons Calls Aerlinthe island update alone added far more than all SWTOR updates combined even with 1.3. The damn thing added an island the size of most SWTOR worlds, 8+ dungeons, over 30 quests, several new spells and more items you can shake a stick at. And that game had MONTHLY updates...not patches...UPDATES.

Hell even WoW updated with far more in 5 months than SWTOR in 7...what am I saying, Runes of Magic, a Free game updates with more in less time.

Originally posted by KingGator

Originally posted by mikahr

Dont worry, i wait for GW2 patiently.

And whats with aversion to PvE? They screwed up PvP completely, and PvE "balancing" was big part of screwup. Not to mention Ilum.

From your post is clear that YOU have aversion to PvP.

lol no dude, I don't;  I spend 1/2 my time pvping, maybe more. That last statment of yours is completely illogical. And there is pve in gw2 from what I understand. You sound like you'd be happier waiting for planetside 2 not guildwars 2.

Thats what you get with totally illogical process of making conclusions. People have a right to be pi**es off if PvE " balancing" screwes PvP. And you conclused that people have aversion to PvE from that. lol

Yes, theres PvE in GW2, but you seem to not know much beyond that.

Originally posted by lizardbones

Whatever major issues SWToR has, it's not the whole buff/nerf cycle. That's almost a staple of the MMORPG genre. There is no escaping it.

This right here, I love the game as it is but let's be honest nerfs/buffs are certainly not making people quit or stay atleast not in numbers worthy of complaining about.

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by lizardbones

Whatever major issues SWToR has, it's not the whole buff/nerf cycle. That's almost a staple of the MMORPG genre. There is no escaping it.

This right here, I love the game as it is but let's be honest nerfs/buffs are certainly not making people quit or stay atleast not in numbers worthy of complaining about.

I don't understand these comments about how TOR should be PVE only.  It's freaking Star Wars.  The entire IP is based around PVP.  The game should have been built first for PVP and then balanced for PVE with a separate skill set.

That being said, i don't think balance is possible until PVP gear is done away with and at least 1 more faction is implemented.

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by lizardbones

Whatever major issues SWToR has, it's not the whole buff/nerf cycle. That's almost a staple of the MMORPG genre. There is no escaping it.

This right here, I love the game as it is but let's be honest nerfs/buffs are certainly not making people quit or stay atleast not in numbers worthy of complaining about.

 

I disagree, and here is why.. Prior to 1.2, Bioware had an extremely balanced game with no real need for the nerf cycle. With 1.2, the game went from being balanced without it, to adding that cycle. There is no secret as to why a game like chess is so popular. Even though not all of the pieces are balanced with each other, the game makers had a formula that worked and stuck with it. SWTOR, on the other hand, had a formula that worked and broke it for no good reason. They went for five months without need of rebalancing, then when they introduced it, people quit.... bottom line is, developers should know how to leave things alone when thry work.

Sorc/Sages were as OP'd before 1.2 as any of the classes are now .. healing troopers/mercs never died.. and operatives/scoundrels could kill you before their first stun was up if you didn't have your CC breaker up.. it wasn't that much more balanced.. no game is ever going to be completely balanced.. hell DAoC has 4 times as many classes as most mmorpgs today and it definitely isn't balanced I would say but still fun as hell to play.

Originally posted by Plaidpants

Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by lizardbones

Whatever major issues SWToR has, it's not the whole buff/nerf cycle. That's almost a staple of the MMORPG genre. There is no escaping it.

This right here, I love the game as it is but let's be honest nerfs/buffs are certainly not making people quit or stay atleast not in numbers worthy of complaining about.

 

I disagree, and here is why.. Prior to 1.2, Bioware had an extremely balanced game with no real need for the nerf cycle. With 1.2, the game went from being balanced without it, to adding that cycle. There is no secret as to why a game like chess is so popular. Even though not all of the pieces are balanced with each other, the game makers had a formula that worked and stuck with it. SWTOR, on the other hand, had a formula that worked and broke it for no good reason. They went for five months without need of rebalancing, then when they introduced it, people quit.... bottom line is, developers should know how to leave things alone when thry work.

Sorc/Sages were as OP'd before 1.2 as any of the classes are now .. healing troopers/mercs never died.. and operatives/scoundrels could kill you before their first stun was up if you didn't have your CC breaker up.. it wasn't that much more balanced.. no game is ever going to be completely balanced.. hell DAoC has 4 times as many classes as most mmorpgs today and it definitely isn't balanced I would say but still fun as hell to play.