If a game have just few active abilities then it need to be more actiony type of game.

On the other hand traditional combat games imo need more skills for combat to be fun.

Still I believe that very limited 7 active skill AND traditional combat is recipe for failure and boredom.

Same as would be idea to make actiony / twitch combat and adding 30 skills to use. 

I would aagree that they need more active and passive abilities to be able to be sloted/used, but nothign close to wow or such say like 8 to 10 would be fine by me. This gives the player added options while not making them able to fill more than two roles in a group, and yet still be very useful in pvp. YOu can actually make a perment bag that you can place out on the screen for usage, and which you can than lock in place so it will not vanish when your inventory is clased.

Originally posted by fenistil

If a game have just few active abilities then it need to be more actiony type of game.

On the other hand traditional combat games imo need more skills for combat to be fun.

Still I believe that very limited 7 active skill AND traditional combat is recipe for failure and boredom.

Same as would be idea to make actiony / twitch combat and adding 30 skills to use. 

For comparison, TERA's classes have more abilities, or at least as many and that game is far more actiony.

Some claim TSW has action combat but I tell you this, especially in a group (I finally got to static with a friend this weekend ^^), standing there and shooting things is a perfectly fine way to play. I/we move out of bad aoes, but that's pretty easy.  TSW's combat doesn't feel much more actiony than WoW's and a lot less actiony than say DCUO.

Originally posted by sbanes

The one thing I really notice missing with 7 actives is you don't have a long cooldown 'I win' button, or an 'oh sh!t . . .' button for defense or to teleport out of a bad pull.

It makes combat a bit deterministic . . . I can only do whatever dps I can do, I only have certain defense or healing ability.  If I can handle x number of mobs, and accidentally pull x+1, I'm going to lose.  I can't run, I can't put on a 20 second shield, I can't teleport out, all I can do is hope to die somewhere I can do an easy corpse run.

Yea actually that's the only thing i don't like... fights kinda have expected results, i know i'm gonna win or lose, there's nothing defensive or healing which is "so good" that might change the tide of the battle. I found that defensive/healing abilities are worth it only if specced defensively or for healing, otherwise the values are too low to matter. The numbers might be good when you finish the wheel but, as a DPS with "some heals" as i wanted to be through these betas, i found that the points put in healing would have helped me better if i would have chosen to improve DPS even more.

I enjoy deck building game systems like TSW and GW, so I certainly don't feel starved.

I am not sure if it solves the issue but you can build many decks and swap them when you wish. I believe it is out of combat or at anima wells in dungeons from what I have read.

7 is kk i never like or understand why soo many game put you 20 skill + and u end up using like 7-10 skill only

Originally posted by Deathofsage

I feel like I'm gasping for air with 7 abilities (+ 7 passives, but as you can't use them they dont count).

Sure, you can have too many abilities, and some games do but I think 7 .. it's just too little.

I wish I had more to say but it pretty much boils down to that.. 7 slots is too little.

Think this is rather an interesting concept duo the fact that you actually have to be carefull with your choices.

I'm sort of in-between. I could deal with, but I'd prefer if it were around 10. I don't like having 3+ skill bars to cycle through, I've always hated that kind of gameplay, but I don't like severe limitations either. That extra 3 skill slots to round it out to 10 would have really helped to expand the build potential, I think. During the beta when I played, I found I had to choose between dps and support, with no way to do both without feeling all red-magey (i.e., not good at either). I prefer playing as a support class that still has the ability to solo, and I didn't have a way to do that without constantly going into my menu and manually switching skills in and out. It gets tiresome.

I didn't have access to higher level skills at the time of course, so that's something to consider. I keep seeing people say the later skills really expand the combat options, but I can only take their word for it.

Originally posted by Deathofsage

Originally posted by fenistil

If a game have just few active abilities then it need to be more actiony type of game.

On the other hand traditional combat games imo need more skills for combat to be fun.

Still I believe that very limited 7 active skill AND traditional combat is recipe for failure and boredom.

Same as would be idea to make actiony / twitch combat and adding 30 skills to use. 

For comparison, TERA's classes have more abilities, or at least as many and that game is far more actiony.

Some claim TSW has action combat but I tell you this, especially in a group (I finally got to static with a friend this weekend ^^), standing there and shooting things is a perfectly fine way to play. I/we move out of bad aoes, but that's pretty easy.  TSW's combat doesn't feel much more actiony than WoW's and a lot less actiony than say DCUO.

 

Well TSW do have traditional combat. I never told it is actiony.

While traditional combat at least for me is nothing bad when is made good, 7 abilities felt way too less.

Decks idea is cool, but seriously 7 skills only in traditional? Not enough.

Originally posted by Tamanous

I am not sure if it solves the issue but you can build many decks and swap them when you wish. I believe it is out of combat or at anima wells in dungeons from what I have read.

Any time out of combat for dungeons as well, at least in my experience as I changed abilities around a few times in dungeons to change to more ranged damage.

There is also a way to save decks, but when you switch deck is automatically unequips all your gear which I'm guess is done for pvp reasons maybe?  That is mildly annoying especially if you have nearly full bags and you have to search for everything you were wearing.

Originally posted by Deathofsage

I feel like I'm gasping for air with 7 abilities (+ 7 passives, but as you can't use them they dont count).

Sure, you can have too many abilities, and some games do but I think 7 .. it's just too little.

I wish I had more to say but it pretty much boils down to that.. 7 slots is too little.

that probably your biggest problem, passives do count, a lot.  Having more abilities just means button mashing.  This game isn't that....well not completely.  Point being; limited amount of abilities means you have to play better imo.

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by Tamanous

I am not sure if it solves the issue but you can build many decks and swap them when you wish. I believe it is out of combat or at anima wells in dungeons from what I have read.

Any time out of combat for dungeons as well, at least in my experience as I changed abilities around a few times in dungeons to change to more ranged damage.

There is also a way to save decks, but when you switch deck is automatically unequips all your gear which I'm guess is done for pvp reasons maybe?  That is mildly annoying especially if you have nearly full bags and you have to search for everything you were wearing.

The decks also save the current gear, which is annoying if you want to switch between two builds that uses the same gear, which admittedly happens a lot during the first stages of the game. The reason you are seeing it as "unequiping" your gear is because you have sold/dissasembled the items in the mean time.

Later on, it makes perfect sense to have builds and gear saved together, since you would want penetration+heal gear on your penetration+heal build and tank+crit on your tank+crit build.

Anyway, it's something I hope they improve before launch. I really liked the crafting now. :)

Regarding the topic directly, I think 7 abilities is a bit little, but when you add 7 passives that add all sort of cross synergy between the actives and the passives, I think it's just right. I played AoC and I don't want to go back to 20 different where 4-5 of them did the same kind of job, but where on different cooldowns. I hated hotkeying 20 abilities, 7 feels great. :)

I don't think so, many mmo's limit the amount of skills you can equiped at one given time and they have been successful. Two examples of this would be City of Heroes/Villians and one of the biggest mmo's ever Guild Wars. I think it makes things easier to learn and optimise your build without bogging you down with tons of  skill options.

Originally posted by Blackbrrd

The decks also save the current gear, which is annoying if you want to switch between two builds that uses the same gear, which admittedly happens a lot during the first stages of the game. The reason you are seeing it as "unequiping" your gear is because you have sold/dissasembled the items in the mean time.

I don't believe that is correct.  I actually tested it when I noticed it happening. When I loaded a build it would unequip everything except my weapons and I hadn't changed any gear pieces in between saving the build and loading it.

I personally enjoy the idea of having a limited number of skills at your disposal at any given time.

It makes your choices of what you use and combine more meaningful, and it makes your builds that much more "concise" and focused.

I can see why people might not like that setup, if they're used to having an "everything and the kitchen sink" situation where they can load up half a dozen hotbars with every skill they possess at the same time. It kind of echoes the desire of many people who want every class to be a spell slinging, self-healing, uber-tanking, ranged-focused melee specialist.

Also, many gamers (MMO and otherwise) these days hate making choices that matter or that they can't conveniently change at will. They want their cake and eat it, too. So that probably has something to do with it.

To me, having hot bars loaded up with skills makes it cumbersome to maintain and, really, kinda sloppy. You're substituting the "quantity" of a bunch of skills for the "quality" of picking a smaller amount that are more refined into a particular playstyle.

I personally like a setup like TSW or GW has.

Did not have any issues at all infact I quite like the system..

Originally posted by Deathofsage

I feel like I'm gasping for air with 7 abilities (+ 7 passives, but as you can't use them they dont count).

Sure, you can have too many abilities, and some games do but I think 7 .. it's just too little.

I wish I had more to say but it pretty much boils down to that.. 7 slots is too little.

Me too. 9 or 10 would be better IMO.