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6/17/12 2:59:19 PM#61
Uh, that were a lot of color in a single post for me. Ill answer here one by one.
My answers in white. First of all, you quoted all the stuff as if i wrote it, but i didn't post the first paragraph you answer to, so i will skip that one and stick to answer my own ones.
Guess what, many people like the progression and the trinity (AKA Tank-Healer-DPS/CC roles). So its not an "improvement" or "innovation" so far, just a change, and not welcome by everyone. Guess what? Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and raid progression. That's the main reason Guild Wars 2 can actually aim at people who hate MMOs not only MMO veterans. I guess you didn't think of that.
Many people hate MMOs because of trinity and progression? Ok, first let me tell you that trinity or specific roles gives a great chance of strategy and specialization, which makes raid encounters difficult and complex as positioning, timing and roles are something basic to have in mind and master, not only by the RL but the whole guild (since one mistake can be fatal) if you want to succeed. That might appeal to almost everyone, everyone that likes to play with a minimum degree of quality.
Now do not misunderstand me, there is strategy too in GW2 specially in PVP tournaments. Certainly the classes need specific traits and whatnot to complement each other for max effectivity, condition removal, blablabla... Good. But let's be real, besides that is quite chaotic. I have experienced WvWvW and sPVP a lot, not dungeons/boss encounters yet, but the voice in the street is that are quite "strategyless". Certainly DEs are VERY chaotic.
On a different note, yes I didn't think about that, what do you mean by "people that hate MMOs", i dont get it, so i will wait your explanation for answering that.
It doesn't matter how much you want to mask it (or just can't see it), actually GW2 doesn't have really anything new by itself, it takes from another games like EVERY OTHER GAME HAS DONE IN THE LAST 12 YEARS, so IMO your argument is invalid. No big deal. Alright apart from the above WvWvW, DEs and the Trinity, that I already explained why they are superior to anything done in previous games, and quite different, let's see some more features. I'll start with the more obvious. Server system, you can play on any server you want, whenever you want. Overflow system, you don't have to stay in a queue to login. All characters on one server and can communicate with each other. Guilds have members from multiple servers, Guilds level up by using influence which is gained by working as a guild and participating in guild events.
Oh, I can play my... let's say, ranger 40 from Sea of Sorrows in other server where I got a couple friends to aid them in a WvWvW? If its true is quite cool, didn't know that, +1 for you.
Overflow, Tera already have done it, even better when you can choose the "Channel" and still stay with your friends in the same "World".
Guild leveling up and stuff via quests, activities, etc. Tera has already done it, and yet again better since different regions can be ruled by guilds, controlling the vendors, taxes, prices, etc...
Active combat system that blends action MMOs and traditional MMOs. Dodging. A completely different Weapon skill system, utility system, elite system. A different way of progressing your skills, a different way of acquiring new skills. Combat without chances, there is no 20% block and 10% evade, when you are hit you take damage. Great build potential with the trait system, lots of customization. Skill combos offer more options for organized play and good teamwork
Active combat system... Tera has done it. Now if you want to know my opinion, Tera system is better with ONE flaw, the pauses in the combat abilities, and this is a plus in GW2, anyway, Tera has developed combat action first, and before Tera, others.
Weapon skill system, I dont think it was the first MMO implementing this, but actually i hear more people hating it that loving it.
A different way to progress, acquire your skills? What do you mean exactly? That i have to kill 4 kobolds to get my next skill in the weapon I've used? Sorry not sure if you were meaning that but if you did... mmh... not new and just the same thing than "get X skill at lvl Y" but with a progression bar.
Combat without chances, no block and evade? Innovative as hell.
Trait system... new? C'mon man... Take a look at EQ1 with more than 2,000 different "traits" (Alternate Advancement), or Rift with different souls combination... way more complete/deep.
Skill combos opening options? Please see Vanguard.
No kill10rats quests, no quest chains, no quest markers, no quest prerequisities. All players can participate in all events and be rewarding without the requirement of being on the exact quest, or chain part. There is no kill stealing or mob tagging. Players work together without the need for LFG, or looking for healers/tanks.
No kill 10 rats quest. Kill 30 kobolds and dont put a name but a progression bar, blindly innovative.
No quest chains... Man how i miss epic quests...
No quest markers. Hearts galore anyone?
Quest prerequisites and all players participating and getting rewards, Rift and WAR?
No kill stealing, mob tagging (man i loved those) - see above.
Players work together without LFG - Ok, 70 mobs clustered, I AoE 1 time with my elementalist, and get same or more credit than the melee working his ass off? Coolage.
Exploring rewards xp and Tyria is a wonderful place to explore. The POIs and the hidden dynamic quests, the jumping puzzles, with deadly traps, make the game perfect for explorers, which game offers so much for true exploration? Develing so content isn't trivial if you go back.
Wonderful place to explore. Agree, but not an improvement, and have seen better.
POIs and hidden quests. Older than me (nah i am not that old).
Jumping puzzles, deadly traps, perfect game for explorers. See Vanguard, see Rift, and way better. What game offers more for exploration? Rift by far (collectibles, chests), and every single damn game that had RARE NAMEDS (God how much i miss that too) hidden and spawning rarely in remote areas with rare/valuable loot.
Deleveling - Talk about killing immersion, anyway nothing new again.
Waypoint system for fast traveling from wherever, inventory system that allows people to send mats back to their storage from wherever they are, mail system from anywhere, underwater combat. The "Downed" system that allows players to rez anyone, dead and downed players appear on the map.
Waypoint n stuff, more suitable for single player games imo... but if you like it, more power for you, nothing new tho.
Inventory/mail system that blabla... Another big immersion killer, refer above.
Underwater combat, man, again, is it anything new?
Competitive PVP where the most skillful player wins and item/level/numbers don't decide the winner.
Ok this is true, eliminating the gear as a big stat/effect booster do balance things.
I'm sick of repeating all those, all should've been obvious after a single hour of playing.
Pls I told you not to mention that, actually I dont think you have more /played that me in GW2, anyway let's not keep going that way.
I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me but some posts are obvious troll posts, I'm not refering to yours obviously.
No, as you said wasn't my intention to troll, just to let you know that GW2 doesn't really bring anything new to the table, and that even tho looks like I wanted to "counter" all your post, I just wanted to explain you why some people (not the trolls) cannot stand hearing that GW2 is that innovative.
To finish, my friend, I will tell you that indeed I like GW2, but in my personal opinion, playing GW2 feels kind of like playing Counter Strike... Only your cosmetic gear, name and rank to ePeen around... On a more serious note, what i mean is that, mh... Well for me going out there, camping very rare spawns until 8am to get that ultrarare quest item, raiding hard to get the piece of armor that you wanted for months, or completing the last step of your epic quest have been the best MMO moments in my life and, sadly, there will be nothing like that in GW2.
Guess EQNext thats it hehe. Anyway I will be playing GW2 (obviously pre-purchased it already) for a while on and off, I hope I can find a good PVP competitive guild.
Intelligent answers only pls
Always!!
Eth.
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6/17/12 3:01:54 PM#62
Omg now that I see it, what a long a$$ post...
Good thing i paragraph-ed a lot, so you guys cannot call it WOT.
PS. I never said the game is a copy/paste of WAR, just that it takes some elements from that game.
Eth. |
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6/17/12 3:08:06 PM#63
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Yes to everything except "f" because its not really a sandbox like some of the future games (the kickstarter ones and ArcheAge) but thats fine because I will get my sandbox fix from these games |
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6/17/12 3:08:15 PM#64
Originally posted by Etherloth *shudders* my goodness me, I hope none of future games will have anything like that. Certainly none I'm going to pay for.
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6/17/12 3:11:13 PM#65
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus a. & b.) no, dispite how innovative the game model is when you boil it down it's not different enough for burnouts and mmo elitists. c.) yes, and usually the learning curve accomplishes that. d.) yes, also depends on Anet e.) no, with no sub fee gives most an opportunity to wander. f.) no, tough crowd, DE's are still repeatable no matter how you look at it.
my opinion, yes it will
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6/17/12 3:12:48 PM#66
Originally posted by Grahor Yeah I was actually refering to Everquest. I guess new players prefer easy, more casual, even spoonfed experiences. I dont blame you for that, every person is different.
To each its own.
Eth. |
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6/17/12 3:19:58 PM#67
With the knowledge of todays generation who all have ADHD no after month or 2 they start whining on forums and hop to the next hyped game. Luckly im more persistance then most and ill prolly play for couple of years i think it have ral potentie to be a very good mmo B2P. |
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6/17/12 3:27:57 PM#68
Originally posted by Etherloth It's funny, you put a veiled insult in your reply, and then go on to say "to each his own". Do you mean to each his own as long as they agree with you? Because that's what it sounds like. Plenty of gamers have been playing MMOs for a long time and have grown tired of what you apparently find enjoyable. I don't want easy, I don't want spoonfed, I don't need casual...but I definitely do not want a gear grind and sitting at my computer all night waiting for some "ultra-rare mob" to spawn so I can get some epic lewt. Sorroe, Human Mesmer |
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6/17/12 3:29:29 PM#69
Originally posted by Etherloth
To Etherloth: Look, it wasn't games that were good, okay? It was you. You were at that magical time in your life called "childhood" when everything feels better. I know, I were there too; why, those endless macroses I've built for text-based MUDs, allowing me to, say, drop the weapon, stand up, get the scroll of recall out of my backpack and read it before the final hit will kill my character - full loss of everything, experience damage, you could lose a level... Ah, those there the times...
Don't "new player" me, young man. I'm likely older than you, and I was playing multiplayer games since the time of first text-based MUDs, and before that I've played multi-player games on Bulletin Board Systems through the night, listening to modem screaming at amazing 2400 boud or whatever it was. So don't start that "old player" routine on me; I was there, I went through all of it all the way, and all this nostalgy is full of sh...
P.S. and git off my lawn! *shakes hand at cloud* |
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6/17/12 3:39:47 PM#70
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus 1. I am and have been for many years a MMO fanatic. 2. I have been burned out with MMO's and have felt burned out with recent releases because they feel just like all other games from the past. 3. C = Time will tell but most likely it will attract more once a lot more people start playing upon launch. 4. Personally I know exactly what the game offers once I reach max level. 5. I currently don't plan on playing any of the games currently in BETA or released, I've tried and they don't cut the mustard. (One has "different", not better, but different combat mechanics but has nothering else to offer. Another game has an amazing world and completely unique lore but combat and animations are horrific..) 6. I'm a big time sandboxy player.
So being that nearly all of those examples you gave question too fit me I can answer this: Yes! I personally do enough research into a game to know exactly what to expect from a game. I do so because I've seen games or players claim one thing or another about a game and it actually is nothing like what they stated. So yes if someone is realistic in with what they expect from Guild Wars 2 it offers everything you will love bout an MMORPG and has taken out all the things that piss off most players.
So again to answer all but one of your questions: YES and to the one we can't answer = Time Will Tell but most likely YES. |
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6/17/12 3:45:23 PM#71
Originally posted by hikaru77 Warhammer is nothing like GW2. Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not. |
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6/17/12 3:49:29 PM#72
I think it will be a perfect fit for more than enough people. Anet has a winning formula. For some people, it will hit all of your points. For others, maybe one or two. But all you really need is one reason to play a video game. |
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6/17/12 3:56:22 PM#73
No not even close. It being a buy to play means I will play the game but if it had any sub fee attached I would not consider it. Just because you do not talk to a quest giver does not make this any less of a quest grind game. |
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6/17/12 3:58:26 PM#74
Originally posted by Etherloth Sorry, but what exactly is challenging in raids or camping for a mobs spawn? The only thign challenging abut raid content is that you have to gather x people in one spot at same time, but that's hardly in-game challenge... And raiding for month to get single armor? That's supposed ot be challenging? It's more of endurance test or rather time sink. I've seen singleplayer games that are more challenging than majority of raid encounters in MMOs, because in singleplayer there is no one to carry you through.
It has nothing to do with "casual" or "spoonfed" experience. It has all to do with not forcing players to sit 12h a day to achieve something or to take part in the "fun" part of the game. |
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6/17/12 4:00:10 PM#75
Originally posted by crewthief Certainly you can interpret messages as you wish, hence the minimum reading comprehension you must have in order to be intelligent enough to type in a keyboard and answer a post. But no, i wasn't meaning to insult anyone, if that is what you got is not my problem tho.
Eth. |
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6/17/12 4:06:32 PM#76
Originally posted by Grahor Well, I dont know who of us is older, and not that it matters really. If you were playing RPGs on bulletin boards, then you must have more experience than me, since i didn't get to that point on online games, pen and paper DnD is another story tho.
Anyway and besides the experience competition which I was not meant to start, I am aware that nostalgy has an important role on all this, not because I was in my childhood at EQ time, because unfortunately I was not, but becaus simply was my first 3D MMORPG ever, and like first love... well you know... Now things changed a lot in my life and probably in a game like EQ i couldnt get to the top of my server as I did back in the time, i am aware of that, anyway I miss MMORPGs that actually make you fight for what you want.
Again, to each its own. Hope this time is better understood.
PS. I liked the "young man" one ;)
Eth. |
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6/17/12 4:07:03 PM#77
Originally posted by Amjoco when you see some guys saying GW2 is a WoW clone (warhammer / LOTRO / Aion / Rift / SWTOR...this are all WoW based games with some few inovation thing) just forget. we know the game have nothing to do with any WoW clone so dont bother with those guys... |
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6/17/12 4:10:24 PM#78
Originally posted by Etherloth
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums |
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6/17/12 4:16:16 PM#79
Originally posted by Ezhae Allow me to explain,
Challenge in camping a rare spawn consist firstly in the nature of the proper spawn, being rare, plus the aggresive competition in order to get mentioned spawn. Even more if you consider that in those games, mob tagging and killstealing were used by some people.
Regarding raids, I wonder what kind of game have you played to say that all you need is to gather people. If you want to experience real raiding i suggest you to try some other options in the market that have actual challenging, strategy-required raiding for best understanding.
I haven't seen any singleplayer game that has more difficulty since raiding in the games i am talking about require extreme coordination and teamwork, expertise and class knowledge if you want to succeed. If you ever have been RL trying to coordinate 120+ people to do a Coirnav or Rathe Council raid in Everquest you knew what I mean. The reason I mention this ecounters is so you can take a look online (I guess still must be around) for the required strategy in order to solve those, again so you can understand what I say.
About your last paragraph, I understand, and as I said, GW2 is a great game for casual playing IMO.
Rgds,
Eth. |
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6/17/12 4:22:22 PM#80
Originally posted by Etherloth you dont even play any high lvl dungeon ....just a lvl30 dungeon. i play lvl30 dungeon on history mode (easy mode) and trash mobs was hard. i play LOTRO (with hard raid content...) and the dungeon 20-30lvl ( GB and GA ) was a piece cake compared with trash mobs of GW2 dungeon. i cant comment about high lvl dungeon because no one have try them and for sure you didnt too. and yes gathering 12 people for raiding on LOTRO was boring like hell...
BTW casual have nothing to do with easy content. |
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