The Treadmill, XP Loss, Hell Levels, Corpse Runs, Gear Grind, /y Spawn Check, /y LFG.....

Not the best things

Best thing about EQ? You could get drunk in it.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by bingbongbros

Everquest was a great game, but also started the decay of the genre before WoW ever launched.  EQ is to blame for gear becoming outdated instantly by a new expansion, really became a problem from PoP onwards.

And also is to blame for instances (segregating players from each other) in LDoN.  And the destruction of player run business and interaction with the introduction of The Bazaar, which completely destroyed the nomadic market of the commonlands tunnel.

 

WoW just took those bad ideas and ran with it, the devs were admitted EQ addicts.  I'd say EQ is the best and worst thing to happen to mmos.

 

Personally, I think Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds was the best thing to happen to mmos.  For those that have heard of it and or played it back before it became a fashion show.

I dont know what "decay of the genre" you are talking about unless you mean MMO sandboxes, and yeah....EQ showed they arent very popular.

 

As for your comments.....

 

For those willing to spend hrs on end running their shop and/or looking to short change others, I bet the bank/tunnels was their bag. For those looking for a fair price, or being able to find something at 2 AM, the bazaar was a god send, even if at first it lagged everyone out.

 

The loot issue? Yeah it could be discouraging to see the raid item you got from 2 expansions back beat out by some vendor trash in the new expansion, and yet the path for raiding nearly always included doing the expanions in order. If the items gotten from previous expansions were meaningless, folks would of been concentrating on the new expansion only. One thing I think you have to consider is back then EQ was hitting us with 2 expansions per yr. IMO the correct way is to introduce 1 expansion a yr. One yr between needing upgrades is fair IMO.

 

LDoN brought good n bad....Bad because the open world dungeons helped to shape the community. Good because folks could play what they wanted with their groups. The same was true for guilds raiding.....it wasnt a matter of if the MOB was up, just simply a matter of it needed to be keyed, and where the lock out timer stood. When you get 30, 40, 50, 60 or even 70 folks together, you should be able to do things. The best thing to come of this was no more outside griefing ruining others fun.

 

I dont know about the game Nexus, or what it was supposed to add the genre. I still contend bringing PVE to MMOs, and doing away with forced PVP is the best thing to happen to MMOs. 

 

 

 

 

You really think many of have that kind of time now? Some of us have 40hr work weeks we can't just stay home and ignore our responsibilties.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

The Treadmill, XP Loss, Hell Levels, Corpse Runs, Gear Grind, /y Spawn Check, /y LFG.....

Not the best things

 

Best thing about EQ? You could get drunk in it.

Treadmill - Maybe you treated it as such. but it was much less than the ratrace to max level then brick wall style content of current games

XP Loss - Made you pay attention, kept you on top of your game, if you died repeatedly then try to analyze what you did wrong & fix it. It teaches you that you can't just apply brute force to a problem and fix it (ie reduced zerging) and besides make friends with a cleric.

Hell levels - They smoothed those out & got rid of those LONG ago

Corpse Runs - Again consequences for dieing, Made you play at the top of your game and judge risk, and if you had problems get a necro to summon your corpse

Gear Grind - You know In current games you replace your gear much more quickly than in EQ. And there wasn't always a best gear set as i mentioned. If your playing a game and obsessed with gear thats your problem.

Spawn Checks - You mean the game world actually felt alive because the mob wasn't always up when you demanded it to be? It help keep the world from feeling hallow.

LFG - Thats what friends and Guilds are for.

Originally posted by OberanMiM

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by OberanMiM
 

As far as "forced grouping", that was one of its better features...

Most EQ (and clones) fans can't imagine a game where people group for FUN and because they want to instead of being forced to, so I won't blame you for this. And no, WoW is not a good example of that.

 

It was actually more efficient to group. And you know people have been grouping up for centuries do do things because they are more efficient that way and you get to meet new people. People used to like that.. Its kinda funny. the more connected this world becomes the more isolated its residents seem to want to be...

Not being forced to group to bash mobs doesn't mean not interacting with other players. That's the point most if not all (ex)EQ fans have a hard time to understand. Forcing people to interact is actually the worse way to make them really socialize positively.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by OberanMiM

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by OberanMiM
 

As far as "forced grouping", that was one of its better features...

Most EQ (and clones) fans can't imagine a game where people group for FUN and because they want to instead of being forced to, so I won't blame you for this. And no, WoW is not a good example of that.

 

It was actually more efficient to group. And you know people have been grouping up for centuries do do things because they are more efficient that way and you get to meet new people. People used to like that.. Its kinda funny. the more connected this world becomes the more isolated its residents seem to want to be...

Not being forced to group to bash mobs doesn't mean not interacting with other players. That's the point most if not all (ex)EQ fans have a hard time to understand. Forcing people to interact is actually the worse way to make them really socialize positively.

As opposed to the worse way of randomly grouping people together and letting the egotistical rage fly (ie battlegrounds and instances)

I don't really see how EQ's way was worse.... Too many players treat today's games as solo and complain when they hit max level within the first month & the lack of attachment to the game..

Originally posted by OberanMiM
 

As opposed to the worse way of randomly grouping people together and letting the egotistical rage fly (ie battlegrounds and instances)

I don't really see how EQ's way was worse.... Too many players treat today's games as solo and complain when they hit max level within the first month & the lack of attachment to the game..

I already told you that WoW wasn't the best example either... and neither are BGs or Instances, which are only evolutions of the EQ model. And I don't talk about today's players and games, neither UO nor AC1 had either instances or BGs, or forced grouping, yet those two games had some of the best communities I had the pleasure to be part of since I started playing multiplayer games ages ago. Try to imagine that... people were not forced to group, ever, but they did it regularly, FOR FUN. That builds communities, unlike forcing people to go into dungeons to bash mobs because there's no other way to progress and actually nothing else to do.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by OberanMiM
 

As opposed to the worse way of randomly grouping people together and letting the egotistical rage fly (ie battlegrounds and instances)

I don't really see how EQ's way was worse.... Too many players treat today's games as solo and complain when they hit max level within the first month & the lack of attachment to the game..

I already told you that WoW wasn't the best example either... and neither are BGs or Instances, which are only evolutions of the EQ model. And I don't talk about today's players and games, neither UO nor AC1 had either instances or BGs, or forced grouping, yet those two games had some of the best communities I had the pleasure to be part of since I started playing multiplayer games ages ago. Try to imagine that... people were not forced to group, ever, but they did it regularly, FOR FUN. That builds communities, unlike forcing people to go into dungeons to bash mobs because there's no other way to progress and actually nothing else to do.

I consider the current method of letting players solo virtually everyone instead or requiring a group a complete 180 from EQ's method. So i do not consider it a deevolution from EQ. And EQ wasn't all about the endgame, post WoW it is completely opposite.

So in essence what you think are a result of the continued EQ model I consider to be complete opposites.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Well, I will only mention the worse ones then... gear grind based raid end game and forced grouping.

That's pretty much why I prefered games like UO and AC1 back then. No matter if you were alone online at 3am or with tons of people at prime time, you could progress efficiently and even at high level, have a chance to get equipment to improve your character.

Actually, to make it even shorter... the worst thing EQ introduced is that notion of "end game" in a MMORPG.

Sorry I have to disagree here.. I wouldn't call EQ a gear grind based raid end game..  When my character was old enough to go into ToV.. I did so with NO "raid" gear so to speak.. In fact I found most of my power came from spells, not gear.. Raiding in EQ was so much more social then any game I've played since..  I hate limits.. 

However to get back to the OP.. I too would like to see a hybrid appoach between WoW and EQ..  Lets take East Commons for example.. I think ALL the wondering mobs in the zone should be soloable by any class.. However, I would love to see "camp" locations such as Orc Camp 1 be filled with elite mobs that require a group and strategy to defeat..   I would like to see less instancing and more open world dungeon crawls.. Sure EQ had issues with "named" mobs being farmed or KS or whatnot, but there are alternatives to get around that.. Maybe allow trigger instancing like what SWTOR does..  I don't like seeing ! or ? over everyones head.. It is just too hand holding for me.. I miss true "faction" perks and consequences.. You can't be friends with EVERYONE.. pick and choose :)

Originally posted by OberanMiM
 

And EQ wasn't all about the endgame...

You can't be serious, can you? EQ introduced the concept of level cap and end game to the genre, along with the raiding centric gameplay.

At this point, I will just agree to disagree and leave it at that. "It's hard to fill a cup that is already full" - Moat, Avatar.

Disagree 100%.

EQ set in motion the de-sandboxing of the MMORPG, which Ultima Online had set up... has led to a Raid/Factional mentality in most games, which WoW jut ran with and polished.

MMORPG were sandboxes first and 'themeparks' second, EQ reversed that trend and set back the genre. What we are left with is endless streams of unimaginative rehashes of a commercial successful formula, which is devoid of any real worth or depth.

Thankfully it would apear that Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World are finally breaking that EQ style of play and if these proove commercially successful we will being to see orignal titles again and not the EQ clones we have had to put up with for a decade!!

One thing About EQ that i really havent seen in other games is class roles.Im not talking about tank/healer/dps i mean other roles like puller/snarer/mezzer things of that nature that brought life to all classes.That i miss tremendously.

UO had a much better core design.  EQ was the start of the down fall of mmos holy trinity, static group design, theme park from zone to zone to zone, and I assume the crafting was also level and zone base.

EA was the best thing to happen to MMOs

Originally posted by Mari2k

 

EA was the best thing to happen to MMOs

And perhaps one of the worst things to happen to virtual world style MMORPG's.

Was the start of the slippery slope downward to where these games have evolved (devolved?) today.

I'd love to see a graphically updated Asherons Call. I didn't play it back in it's prime, or for very long last year due to the lack of players/top heavy playerbase. Beyond that I really liked it though.

Originally posted by bingbongbros

Everquest was a great game, but also started the decay of the genre before WoW ever launched.  EQ is to blame for gear becoming outdated instantly by a new expansion, really became a problem from PoP onwards.

I can agree with this to a point.

 

And also is to blame for instances (segregating players from each other) in LDoN.  And the destruction of player run business and interaction with the introduction of The Bazaar, which completely destroyed the nomadic market of the commonlands tunnel.ce

First,EQ was not the first to introduce instanced dungeons,LDON was not the first of it type,the realm online and then AO had instances before EQ.Yes i liked to trade in the commonlands but i also liked the bazaar,it's down to each person.You may not of liked it but don't speak for everyone else please.

 

WoW just took those bad ideas and ran with it, the devs were admitted EQ addicts.  I'd say EQ is the best and worst thing to happen to mmos.

EQ was a great game and a pioneer,it was the firs mainstreamt 3d mmo as well.

 Personally, I think Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds was the best thing to happen to mmos.  For those that have heard of it and or played it back before it became a fashion show.

So yes EQ1 was a moment in time along with WOW which was the last major MMO moment.

Originally posted by truce12

One thing About EQ that i really havent seen in other games is class roles.Im not talking about tank/healer/dps i mean other roles like puller/snarer/mezzer things of that nature that brought life to all classes.That i miss tremendously.

Vanguard has the same,every class has a certain role,it's very similar to EQ,when it goes FTP this summer many people who played EQ but have never played Vanguard are in for a supprise.

Originally posted by OberanMiM

Originally posted by PyrateLV

The Treadmill, XP Loss, Hell Levels, Corpse Runs, Gear Grind, /y Spawn Check, /y LFG.....

Not the best things

 

Best thing about EQ? You could get drunk in it.

 

Treadmill - Maybe you treated it as such. but it was much less than the ratrace to max level then brick wall style content of current games

XP Loss - Made you pay attention, kept you on top of your game, if you died repeatedly then try to analyze what you did wrong & fix it. It teaches you that you can't just apply brute force to a problem and fix it (ie reduced zerging) and besides make friends with a cleric.

Hell levels - They smoothed those out & got rid of those LONG ago

Corpse Runs - Again consequences for dieing, Made you play at the top of your game and judge risk, and if you had problems get a necro to summon your corpse

Gear Grind - You know In current games you replace your gear much more quickly than in EQ. And there wasn't always a best gear set as i mentioned. If your playing a game and obsessed with gear thats your problem.

Spawn Checks - You mean the game world actually felt alive because the mob wasn't always up when you demanded it to be? It help keep the world from feeling hallow.

LFG - Thats what friends and Guilds are for.

This is why i have played Vanguard for the last five years,it still holds true to the old style of MMO gaming.

Originally posted by Amjoco

I'm agreeing with you up to a point OP, but Ultima Online was the one that really got the ball rolling in the right direction. 

Not really,it was a great game but it was not a 3d mmo,that first mainstream  MMO goes to EQ,that's what got the ball rolling.Every major mmo since has been a 3d MMO.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by Amjoco

I'm agreeing with you up to a point OP, but Ultima Online was the one that really got the ball rolling in the right direction. 

Not really,it was a great game but it was not a 3d mmo,that first mainstream  MMO goes to EQ,that's what got the ball rolling.Every major mmo since has been a 3d MMO.

Sorry, but UO got released in Sept. 97 while EQ hit the shelves in March 1999... the first mainstream MMORPG is definitely UO.

Mainstream doesn't mean 3D.