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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Main reason why SWTOR flopped?

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396 posts found
  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/17/12 5:10:20 AM#361
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Shazknee
 

Suuuuuure it has.

 

In 5 yrs, when the game is still chugging along, I bet you will still be trying to run the smack in this forum.

 

You have been running the 300 or 400k sub thing for a while now. You were full of shit then, and you still are. I would say the beating horse thing is quite apt. Now if you wanna photo ship your RL pic in for the information minister, and throw the caption 'I swear it  is going to shut down any minute now", you would have friggen gold.

 

There is nothing to support your, nor the OPs contention, yet you guys attempt to pass it off as fact. Which is par for the course when it comes to the haters around here.

 

I never said it would shut down. Warhammer hasn't and it has 2 servers total worldwide. I know very well how these things go. I'm a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs, unlike you who came here bent on spreading disinformation and fire-fighting for a failed MMO.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Just match the reality to the lies. Down to just over a dozen servers with 1.3 million subs? It's obvious who is lying.

SWTOR is a total, abject failure, because its incompetent scumbag developers failed to make a good game that players wanted to play, and their arrogance and dishonesty made them ignore all the feedback provided by players to improve the game.

The story is very simple and very obvious. It's Warhammer all over again, but worse: a bigger and faster failure than ever before.

  Trol1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 184

6/17/12 6:50:04 AM#362
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Shazknee
 

Suuuuuure it has.

 

In 5 yrs, when the game is still chugging along, I bet you will still be trying to run the smack in this forum.

 

You have been running the 300 or 400k sub thing for a while now. You were full of shit then, and you still are. I would say the beating horse thing is quite apt. Now if you wanna photo ship your RL pic in for the information minister, and throw the caption 'I swear it  is going to shut down any minute now", you would have friggen gold.

 

There is nothing to support your, nor the OPs contention, yet you guys attempt to pass it off as fact. Which is par for the course when it comes to the haters around here.

 

I never said it would shut down. Warhammer hasn't and it has 2 servers total worldwide. I know very well how these things go. I'm a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs, unlike you who came here bent on spreading disinformation and fire-fighting for a failed MMO.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Just match the reality to the lies. Down to just over a dozen servers with 1.3 million subs? It's obvious who is lying.

SWTOR is a total, abject failure, because its incompetent scumbag developers failed to make a good game that players wanted to play, and their arrogance and dishonesty made them ignore all the feedback provided by players to improve the game.

The story is very simple and very obvious. It's Warhammer all over again, but worse: a bigger and faster failure than ever before.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

Link to where these numbers are officially given by BW please?

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Weird, just looked at http://www.swtor.com/server-status and there are by far over a dozen servers listed...?

Could it be that you are either living in your own SWTOR hating reality?

Or maybe you are NOT "a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs" but rather someone "who came here bent on spreading disinformation"?

Oooh, watch out, the truth can bite you in the arse, and other body parts! ;-)

 

 

 

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/17/12 6:56:12 AM#363
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Shazknee
 

Suuuuuure it has.

 

In 5 yrs, when the game is still chugging along, I bet you will still be trying to run the smack in this forum.

 

You have been running the 300 or 400k sub thing for a while now. You were full of shit then, and you still are. I would say the beating horse thing is quite apt. Now if you wanna photo ship your RL pic in for the information minister, and throw the caption 'I swear it  is going to shut down any minute now", you would have friggen gold.

 

There is nothing to support your, nor the OPs contention, yet you guys attempt to pass it off as fact. Which is par for the course when it comes to the haters around here.

 

I never said it would shut down. Warhammer hasn't and it has 2 servers total worldwide. I know very well how these things go. I'm a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs, unlike you who came here bent on spreading disinformation and fire-fighting for a failed MMO.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Just match the reality to the lies. Down to just over a dozen servers with 1.3 million subs? It's obvious who is lying.

SWTOR is a total, abject failure, because its incompetent scumbag developers failed to make a good game that players wanted to play, and their arrogance and dishonesty made them ignore all the feedback provided by players to improve the game.

The story is very simple and very obvious. It's Warhammer all over again, but worse: a bigger and faster failure than ever before.

No you have been spouting under 200k, and heading to less than 100k....much difference? I dont see it.

 

Show me under 300k as fact, or else  once more it is simply a case of you shoveling the hater shit.

 

There are still over 600 employees involved with the game. For the numbers you keep spouting BW would have it down to SWG employee numbers prior to the NGE. That just isnt the case. They cut back on 200 of the 800 slots, and the 600 remaining  would stand up with any game live/in production save WoW, and possibly Titan.

 

Yet you are still here spewing BS.

 

Like I said, I bet you are here in 5 yrs still talking blown out your ass information. If EA/BW ever get to the point that they dip below 500k, we will see the F2P conversation, and income will still keep kicking ass. No matter how much you wish it, this game isnt going anywhere, and it will continue bringing in large amounts of money.

 

 

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  Sandbox

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 309

6/17/12 7:19:30 AM#364
Originally posted by Trol1
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Shazknee
 

Suuuuuure it has.

 

In 5 yrs, when the game is still chugging along, I bet you will still be trying to run the smack in this forum.

 

You have been running the 300 or 400k sub thing for a while now. You were full of shit then, and you still are. I would say the beating horse thing is quite apt. Now if you wanna photo ship your RL pic in for the information minister, and throw the caption 'I swear it  is going to shut down any minute now", you would have friggen gold.

 

There is nothing to support your, nor the OPs contention, yet you guys attempt to pass it off as fact. Which is par for the course when it comes to the haters around here.

 

I never said it would shut down. Warhammer hasn't and it has 2 servers total worldwide. I know very well how these things go. I'm a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs, unlike you who came here bent on spreading disinformation and fire-fighting for a failed MMO.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Just match the reality to the lies. Down to just over a dozen servers with 1.3 million subs? It's obvious who is lying.

SWTOR is a total, abject failure, because its incompetent scumbag developers failed to make a good game that players wanted to play, and their arrogance and dishonesty made them ignore all the feedback provided by players to improve the game.

The story is very simple and very obvious. It's Warhammer all over again, but worse: a bigger and faster failure than ever before.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

Link to where these numbers are officially given by BW please?

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Weird, just looked at http://www.swtor.com/server-status and there are by far over a dozen servers listed...?

Could it be that you are either living in your own SWTOR hating reality?

Or maybe you are NOT "a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs" but rather someone "who came here bent on spreading disinformation"?

Oooh, watch out, the truth can bite you in the arse, and other body parts! ;-)

 

 

 

Can you provide a recent link to BW with official numbers?
I assume not, and guess why; their subscription numbers are falling through the floor at the moment. Please provide an official and recent statement that they do not have 300k or fewer subscribers now.
 
If you are able omit the fact of the ongoing character transfer due to server merges and instead base your facts of a list with hundreds of empty (light) servers, then you should  not speculate of where “the truth can bite…”. This last part is a great example of disinformation at its best. 
  sonoggi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 1151

6/17/12 8:58:55 AM#365

there is one major reason TOR flopped, and i called it 3 years ago on these very forums: it tried to be like WoW. when one of the moron devs said something along the lines of "if you're not copying WoW, youre making a mistake", i pretty much gave up on the game. like this sentence on its own should have been enough to lower EA's stocks, but everyone was so pumped that very few if any paid attention to this comment.

  Mardermann

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/09
Posts: 29

6/17/12 11:10:53 AM#366

I played for three months... it was not a very good mmo... it was an okay single player game.. would have been better they would have made some kind of lobby  and from there you can play the instances... them I liked ... but well... you need people to play them... and there where none of them left on my server... so I quit (not ragequit) 

It was fun for three months though... then it got ... boring?

 

maybe they can turn it around... but personally I dont think so...

 

 

  Hurvart

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 566

6/17/12 12:02:31 PM#367

Main reasons:

Linear quest design. Quest hubs on rails.

Tunnel design. One step away from the intended path and you hit a invisible wall.

No freedom or focus on exploring in general.

 

I think all games designed like that will fail longterm. How can it be fun to play something like that for more than a month? Incredible!

Things like:

Kill x of y quests and fedex quests make it worse. People have been doing quest like that for years. Its very old and very boring. Voice acting will not help...

PvP unbalanced and rewards very annoying.

Endgame for PvE -very old ideas that people dont want anymore. Grind gear and repeat. Farm raid instances and bosses over and over. Retart. Do it again..forever.

 

Perhaps other companies and more important -investors- will stop believing in this type of game design. And we will see new and fresh ideas and games in the future..At least we can hope!

  Saerain

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/27/06
Posts: 942

6/17/12 12:09:57 PM#368
Originally posted by Greyhooff 

I never said it would shut down.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

SWTOR is a total, abject failure,

So, what's a failure, again? Games that you, yourself don't like, or what?

Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 5895

6/17/12 12:47:37 PM#369

Pretty simple, and I was pointing this out years in advance but went ignored.

 

The concept of SWTOR was the STORY FOCUS element in a MMO.

The problem here, is that they wanted to bring over the Singleplayer RPG feel to the MMORPG genre.

These two genres (MMORPG and SRPG and ORPG) are all RPGs in some way, but very different in taste, which in theory is why something that works in one of those sub genres may not be so successful in the other sub genre.

The Story Focus of a SRPG like KOTOR and DragonAge, just doesnt work in a MMORPG.

From observation alone, you can see this in games that existed before the launch of SWTOR.

what I mean, is that if you observe how the general MMORPG market consumers view story in pre-SWTOR MMO, you can see that the general consumer doesnt care about Story in MMORPGs. in the past Quest Text went ignored for a reason. Many people blamed the lore for this, but the reality of it is, that

in MMO genre, the game is very Time exclusive and heavily competitive .

what this means is that, most players see a larger value in "GAMEPLAY TIME" being spent on staying "Competitive" rather than toying around with reading lore.

this same thing crossed over to SWTOR's cutscenes. Most MMORPG gamers still hold this same mindset, of "Time and Competitiveness". So most people wont stay interested in viewing these time wasting videos of NPC talking, when that sub time can be spent actually staying competitive.

 

Most of SWTOR's resources went into these Cutscene and voice overs, that the game lacked the MMORPG gameplay that can keep a MMO community interested. the IP alone wont do that. And the Name behind hte developers wont do that.

if you sacrifice gameplay for story in the MMO genre, it simply wont hold up. you can get away with that in a SRPG or even a ORPG, but not a MMORPG.

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 758

6/17/12 12:51:33 PM#370

In my opinion swtor flopped so bad because when people hit 50 there were 2 choices of what you could do: Farm bgs or Farm heroics/raids. The stroy took a complete back step at 50 and it just became a big grind. I will admit that i loved swtor leveling cause of the story but i didnt wanna level a new char right away just to keep enjoying the game. Swtor needs more things to do at endgame, world events, world pvp, more story content, and make the existing pvp and pve interesting, until then im not touching it unless they give me a freek weekend or something.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  DSWBeef

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/09
Posts: 758

6/17/12 12:54:49 PM#371
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Pretty simple, and I was pointing this out years in advance but went ignored.

 

The concept of SWTOR was the STORY FOCUS element in a MMO.

The problem here, is that they wanted to bring over the Singleplayer RPG feel to the MMORPG genre.

These two genres (MMORPG and SRPG and ORPG) are all RPGs in some way, but very different in taste, which in theory is why something that works in one of those sub genres may not be so successful in the other sub genre.

The Story Focus of a SRPG like KOTOR and DragonAge, just doesnt work in a MMORPG.

From observation alone, you can see this in games that existed before the launch of SWTOR.

what I mean, is that if you observe how the general MMORPG market consumers view story in pre-SWTOR MMO, you can see that the general consumer doesnt care about Story in MMORPGs. in the past Quest Text went ignored for a reason. Many people blamed the lore for this, but the reality of it is, that

in MMO genre, the game is very Time exclusive and heavily competitive .

what this means is that, most players see a larger value in "GAMEPLAY TIME" being spent on staying "Competitive" rather than toying around with reading lore.

this same thing crossed over to SWTOR's cutscenes. Most MMORPG gamers still hold this same mindset, of "Time and Competitiveness". So most people wont stay interested in viewing these time wasting videos of NPC talking, when that sub time can be spent actually staying competitive.

 

Most of SWTOR's resources went into these Cutscene and voice overs, that the game lacked the MMORPG gameplay that can keep a MMO community interested. the IP alone wont do that. And the Name behind hte developers wont do that.

if you sacrifice gameplay for story in the MMO genre, it simply wont hold up. you can get away with that in a SRPG or even a ORPG, but not a MMORPG.

For once i actually disagree with you. Sure many people pounded that space bar like no tomorrow but saying that story isnt important in an mmo is completely false. SWTOR was only good because of its story. YOu could say that if theyt devoted all that time and money from the VO and put it into actual gameplay elements it could of been better GAMEPLAY wise, But i feel many people wanted actual story in an mmo and not a ! makr and a click of a button to get a quest.

Playing: Archeage Alpha, War Thunder, World of Tanks
Waiting on: Archeage, Wild Star, Everquest Next and The Black Desert

  Greyhooff

Novice Member

Joined: 10/08/08
Posts: 684

6/17/12 1:51:31 PM#372
Originally posted by Saerain
Originally posted by Greyhooff 

I never said it would shut down.

Originally posted by Greyhooff

SWTOR is a total, abject failure,

So, what's a failure, again? Games that you, yourself don't like, or what?

 

Games developed for 200-300 million dollars that go from having over 200 servers to having just over a dozen, and with a retention rate so low that 2.3 million box sales goes down to below 300k subs - all in under 6 months.

That's what I call a failure, what would you call it?

No other game has failed as hard, or as fast, as SWTOR.

  User Deleted
6/17/12 2:01:08 PM#373
Originally posted by Moaky07

No you have been spouting under 200k, and heading to less than 100k....much difference? I dont see it.

 

Show me under 300k as fact, or else  once more it is simply a case of you shoveling the hater shit.

 

There are still over 600 employees involved with the game. For the numbers you keep spouting BW would have it down to SWG employee numbers prior to the NGE. That just isnt the case. They cut back on 200 of the 800 slots, and the 600 remaining  would stand up with any game live/in production save WoW, and possibly Titan.

 

Yet you are still here spewing BS.

 

Like I said, I bet you are here in 5 yrs still talking blown out your ass information. If EA/BW ever get to the point that they dip below 500k, we will see the F2P conversation, and income will still keep kicking ass. No matter how much you wish it, this game isnt going anywhere, and it will continue bringing in large amounts of money.

 

 

Funny stuff.

Can you provide links to ANYTHING that confirms what you are saying?

Empirical research and unofficial sources (best we have) says - totally oposite of what you are saying.

If nothing else, you can just look at handful of full servers.

Enjoy.

  garretth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 314

6/17/12 2:16:36 PM#374
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by Moaky07

No you have been spouting under 200k, and heading to less than 100k....much difference? I dont see it.

 

Show me under 300k as fact, or else  once more it is simply a case of you shoveling the hater shit.

 

There are still over 600 employees involved with the game. For the numbers you keep spouting BW would have it down to SWG employee numbers prior to the NGE. That just isnt the case. They cut back on 200 of the 800 slots, and the 600 remaining  would stand up with any game live/in production save WoW, and possibly Titan.

 

Yet you are still here spewing BS.

 

Like I said, I bet you are here in 5 yrs still talking blown out your ass information. If EA/BW ever get to the point that they dip below 500k, we will see the F2P conversation, and income will still keep kicking ass. No matter how much you wish it, this game isnt going anywhere, and it will continue bringing in large amounts of money.

 

 

Funny stuff.

Can you provide links to ANYTHING that confirms what you are saying?

Empirical research and unofficial sources (best we have) says - totally oposite of what you are saying.

If nothing else, you can just look at handful of full servers.

Enjoy.

 

Doing a 'who' on my husbands server right now...25 people are showing....  not sure how accurate.

  MMOSavant

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/12
Posts: 177

6/17/12 2:27:22 PM#375

I don't know why it has flopped, all I can comment on is why I stopped playing. Firstly the planets with internal areas had endless dull corridors and warehouse-like areas and on the external planets the almost featureless landscapes bored me fairly quickly. Added to that was the tendancy for mobs to just stand about in groups of 2 or 3 waiting to be killed. It was all so linear and mind-numbing. Balmorra was one of the worst zones i've ever played in any game and to cap it once i'd done it with an Empire character I had to go back there later with a Republic character at a higher level. That was when I unsubbed... I just couldn't take Balmorra again.

 

So uninspired linear zones and boring mobs.

  Trol1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 184

6/17/12 3:20:13 PM#376
Originally posted by Sandbox
Can you provide a recent link to BW with official numbers?
I assume not, and guess why; their subscription numbers are falling through the floor at the moment. Please provide an official and recent statement that they do not have 300k or fewer subscribers now.
 
If you are able omit the fact of the ongoing character transfer due to server merges and instead base your facts of a list with hundreds of empty (light) servers, then you should  not speculate of where “the truth can bite…”. This last part is a great example of disinformation at its best. 

Sandbox,

double standard much?

Let me guess: "hey, I'm a SWTOR hater, whatever I say I don't need to prove it, it has to be right by default. On the other hand, if you are a SWTOR fanbhoy, well, you better provide triple confirmation source otherwise you are completely unbelievable and most likely actually lying!", right?

WEll, as a gentleman, I'd say show me yours and I'll show you mine, but as you are probably going to the "SWTOR haters don't need to show" rule, well, what is the point of continuing?

Because, see, in the end the joke is always on you: 50 Mio subs, or just 1 Mio or just 500K or just 100K or just 10 (yes, 10 as in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10), according to you SWTOR haters SWTOR was never a MMO. So there shouldn't really be a difference for us as long as BW keeps the service running at all :-P

Sucks to be a SWTOR hater, can't win 'em, can only lose...

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

6/17/12 4:05:46 PM#377
Originally posted by Greyhooff

Games developed for 200-300 million dollars that go from having over 200 servers to having just over a dozen, and with a retention rate so low that 2.3 million box sales goes down to below 300k subs - all in under 6 months.

Without actual facts, this estimation has as much value as the things a cow might drop in its stable.

  azmundai

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1422

6/17/12 4:11:49 PM#378


Originally posted by cutthecrap

Originally posted by Greyhooff Games developed for 200-300 million dollars that go from having over 200 servers to having just over a dozen, and with a retention rate so low that 2.3 million box sales goes down to below 300k subs - all in under 6 months.
Without actual facts, this estimation has as much value as the things a cow might drop in its stable.

Very true. I estimate the are 9 million subs.

/sarcasm

even if you give them the benefit of the doubt at 400 or even 500k subs .. its still pretty laughable.

if you need exact stats to tell you this game has tanked in a lot of ways ... you haven't been paying attention.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  sassoonss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 1103

6/17/12 4:18:04 PM#379

I have to say the biggest failure for this game for replayable value was 0

 

I remember as a tropper I enjoyed the entire story line content till I maxed him

But when I rolled alts I just couldnt bring myself to play .I just couldnt and gave up

 

a friend of mine lately joined SWTOR and he was with his  1st toon and everyday he was telling how much he is enjoying the story line

Then he rolls an alt as a Republic and I tell him thats great I will transfer my trooper on to his server and we can play hieger tiers together. Today he send me  a txt msg  ( caught me by suprise)  that he just preordered the the secret world and not planning  to0 renew his sub to SWTOR .he said he just couldnt reroll and  level up another toon

  cutthecrap

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 608

6/17/12 4:21:25 PM#380
Originally posted by azmundai

 


Originally posted by cutthecrap

Originally posted by Greyhooff Games developed for 200-300 million dollars that go from having over 200 servers to having just over a dozen, and with a retention rate so low that 2.3 million box sales goes down to below 300k subs - all in under 6 months.
Without actual facts, this estimation has as much value as the things a cow might drop in its stable.

 

Very true. I estimate the are 9 million subs.

/sarcasm

even if you give them the benefit of the doubt at 400 or even 500k subs .. its still pretty laughable.

if you need exact stats to tell you this game has tanked in a lot of ways ... you haven't been paying attention.

I don't really give a fuck how many subs they have or not, it's obvious that it's nowhere near the millions of subs they want or strive for. Fanbois as well as haters however that suck all kinda figures out of their thumb or their dark place where the sun don't shine just annoy me. Makes me think of all the demagogues and others that do the same hyperbole exaggeration thing.

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