IT'S PAY TO WIN!!!

Sorry, had to do it.. :P

Originally posted by Loke666

It is slightly annoying, yes. But at least they upped the droprate a lot since BWE1 (and you get the dye right away without any crafting).

Drop rate and exp always get adjusted (mostly downward) prior to launch.  This is especially true for games that rely on cash shops for future profits.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Originally posted by Loke666

It is slightly annoying, yes. But at least they upped the droprate a lot since BWE1 (and you get the dye right away without any crafting).

Drop rate and exp always get adjusted (mostly downward) prior to launch.  This is especially true for games that rely on cash shops for future profits.

It still is pointless to complain that they might lower the rate at launch.

I hope they cut down on leveling speed though, I think you level too fast.

I like the fact that Dyes are character specific.  It gives a sense of progression in an already very minimalistic progression based MMO.

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by fiontar

Originally posted by impiro

Originally posted by fiontar

I'd be ok with Character Bound if there was a mechanism for transfering a color from one character to another. So, each individual dye you've found will only allow it to unlock on one character at a time and if you do remove the color from one character and transfer to another, of course any items dyed that color on the donating character would revert to a default starter color.

The could even sell a very cheap item that allows you to "re-bottle" a color and it would be ok, as long is it was actually cheap.

This would allow you to re-sort colors as you start acquiring enough to build themes and if you have a bunch of colors on a character you later abandon, those dyes are not completely lost.

Your solution makes no sense at all. Its only focus is to make things easier. I do not see how unlocking a certain dye type for you character isn´t something fun. I mean, your color is not that important and its cool to get new ones during leveling.

I do think that shades of dye´s should be known when selling them to other players. Not for the gem store ofcourse.

Really the ammount of comlaining about it all comes from the people who want everythign instantly.

In GW1, every part of equipment needed 1 dye. And every dye could only be used once. Just think how much more effort it was to get certain colors on every set of armor on 1 char. Now think about multiple characters. Kids these days.....want everything NOW NOW NOW. `Who wants to spent time unlocking such a useless think as dye´s anyway, only stats matter not cosmethics` Please, go play any other MMO that is suited for your needs. 

How does it make no sense? It would, at a cost, allow you to move dyes around between your characters on the same account. If you wanted to use the same color on more than one character, you'd still have to get more than one copy of that color. This would be away to roughly approximate accounts being account wide, while still making duplicates valuable.

It's 400 shades for crying out loud. It's not like this mechanism is going to make it easy to get all 400 dyes, it just allows you to ensure that dyes you've applied to one character aren't totally wasted if you decide to stop playing that character or delete them. With a cost involved in the transfer, most people wouldn't transfer dies around in volume, but if you had one shade on character A that you don't use for that character, but would look good on character B, you could transfer the color, rather than having to open hundreds of random dyes, hoping to find the shade again!

The reasons they don't want us to be able to sell or trade identified dyes should be obvious. If you had a three color scheme in mind, you could just buy those three shades and never worry about dyes ever again. Who would buy dye packs? Plus, they obviously don't want dye drops to be a "get rich quick" lottery like syes were in GW1. Popular, rare shades would be very expensive.  Your idea would have an exponentially greater impact on decreasing the difficulty of collecting dyes than my idea would, which makes your last paragraphy very ironic.

Well, that depends. In GW1 certain colors were pretty rare. So, to say just buy 3 shades they want might not be that easy in practice. Certain colors also were more wanted simply because of the rarity of it, so it works both ways. Also i have no problem with the fact that certain shades would be very expensive, it makes economy way more interesting. i really liked the way dye´s worked in GW1. It made for valuabe items and intresting economics.

But I can see that my idea would indeed make it more easy to collect in that respect that the wanted shades would be buyable. I actually had a full GW1 system in mind, not so much to give 1 dye unlimited uses. if they are unlockables per character, it might indeed not be the smartest solution.

 Still, eventhough your system might work, I think they way it would work seems odd if it was really cheap. Basically you can just remove a certain shade any time you intend on playing a certain character for a while.

I have no problem with the 400 shades per character. Basically, when you have character that is worthwhile, you will probably level it to 80 and unlock a lot of shades in the proces. I see no issue about the whole idea that certain shades may take a while to get. I mean the color shades are fun to unlock, but i do not see it neccessary to have all 400 shades. Also I would most certainly not be bothered that my lvl 40 character does not have acces to a certain shade of blue, Ill pick another shade of blue untill I find a better one. Dye colors are not all that important, especially since there are so many of them.

I like 400 shades as well. It's just that 400 is enough that even if minor tweaks are made to make things a little more friendly for players, there still is a variety of shades large enough to keep collecting them from being easy.

Pricing of "Empty Vials" would have to be cheap enough that it would make sense to occasionally transfer dyes and not cost prohibitive for players wanting to transfer a large quantity of dyes off a character they've decided to retire or delete, but still have some cost to them, so that players don't just shift dyes around on a whim. I was thinking maybe 15 to 25 single use vials for 250 Gems, (roughly $3.00US, or $.12 to $.20 per color transfered from one character to another).

They could even add a few empty vials to the gem store dye packs, to increase the value and let players play around with the flexibility that the system would offer.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I like the fact that Dyes are character specific.  It gives a sense of progression in an already very minimalistic progression based MMO.

I'd agree with you if there are feasible ways to obtain them without using the Gem store.

I'm probably one of the few people that like the new random PvP reward system of sPvP (as long as they do something about the duplicates).

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I like the fact that Dyes are character specific.  It gives a sense of progression in an already very minimalistic progression based MMO.

I'd agree with you if there are feasible ways to obtain them without using the Gem store.

I'm probably one of the few people that like the new random PvP reward system of sPvP (as long as they do something about the duplicates).

Well, I got about 8 or so dyes leveling from 1-18 on an Engineer in BWE2 from drops and gathering from food resource nodes.

I don't have any idea whether or not I was lucky, but it seemed reasonable to me.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I like the fact that Dyes are character specific.  It gives a sense of progression in an already very minimalistic progression based MMO.

A sense of progression via dyes....Mmmm  I'm not sure what to think of that. 

This whole thing really dissapoints me and Ive kept my mouth shut about it. 

I didnt play GW1 but I knew there was a dye system in GW2.  Finally, I can make my armor any color I want!  This was long needed in an mmo.  But I didnt know it was a play mechanic and I didnt imagine it would be earnable.  I just figured all the color combinations would be presented to you.  I didnt expect to have to collect anything or pay gems for it either.  I just thought it might be a costumisation feature. 

I guess it will keep me playing some.  Collecting dyes.  I just hate there are dyes in the game at all.  Id just prefer a full color pallete.  Do what I want. 

But its minor.  Its going to be some kind of item.  I'll live and enjoy the game anyways. 

Well they seam to have a ton of dye even if the character creation palette is limited, and every race have his own palette from what i heard (the silvary palette seam really nice from the npc), so the collection aspect is ok, even desirable imo. I prefer the dye to drop than that over complicated seed stuff, i think it's way better now. As for cs, my only grip is that those coming from cs are still character bound and have rng to it, i don't like rng on something i pay for real money, and character bound on cs item seam totally silly to me, but then again it's a bit to much to ask them to make a special dye system just for the cs dyes. So overall i think its ok, this is not a subject that concern me much. I dropped 8 dye this week end, and could use them as soon as i dropped them, i don't know if they will lower the drop rate, probably, but if i can drop a dye here and there i'm good with that.

400 dyes? I could use a couple more than default and be set...

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Info click here. How do you feel about the change?  I think its a dumb move. Getting dyes is not fun so why would I want to do that 400 times on each char? The process is slow and painful and I am not looking forward to doing it once let alone another 4-5 times. I really think the community needs to push this matter.

Character progression is fun (combat etc), dye acquisition isn't fun. I believe they are forgetting about account continuity. The dye should be a minor perk for long time players who have been dedicated to playing GW2. Being able to make a low level char look the way you want!!!!

 

 

Cha-Ching went the cash shop !

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I like the fact that Dyes are character specific.  It gives a sense of progression in an already very minimalistic progression based MMO.

I'd agree with you if there are feasible ways to obtain them without using the Gem store.

I'm probably one of the few people that like the new random PvP reward system of sPvP (as long as they do something about the duplicates).

Well, I got about 8 or so dyes leveling from 1-18 on an Engineer in BWE2 from drops and gathering from food resource nodes.

 

I don't have any idea whether or not I was lucky, but it seemed reasonable to me.

Me too.

And for the Pay to Achievers that want all the colours from the very start for a particular charcter I am sure they will be in the item shop. I would rather play for them on each one though.

I don't mind them making it character based tbh

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Z3R01

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Z3R01

They will probably let you buy account bound Dyes off the shop...

They need to make money some how.

Bought dyes are random. You dont know what you will get.

Even so it would be a good way for A-net to make money no? You can still farm for dyes but for a easy payment of 5 bucks you can get the color u want and it could be account bound!!!!

Now thats how you support a developer as awesome as A-net.

If the colors were account bound I would buy them from the gem store. Being char bound has me already decided I wont buy dyes from the store. I am gald to spend money in the gem store but will but will not be buying dyes with the current change.

My feelings exactly.  I fully intend to use the Gem store to help their revenue since I'm not going to be charged a subscription fee, but dyes won't be something I purchase now.  If they were account bound I'd be much more likely to do so.

It lacks option for me. Looks of my character are important for me but it doesn't matter how they will handle dyes. I only wish dyes were tradeable. I think it would be cool to have a dye market.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Elesthor

Originally posted by Zylaxx

I like the fact that Dyes are character specific.  It gives a sense of progression in an already very minimalistic progression based MMO.

I'd agree with you if there are feasible ways to obtain them without using the Gem store.

I'm probably one of the few people that like the new random PvP reward system of sPvP (as long as they do something about the duplicates).

Well, I got about 8 or so dyes leveling from 1-18 on an Engineer in BWE2 from drops and gathering from food resource nodes.

 

I don't have any idea whether or not I was lucky, but it seemed reasonable to me.

Getting the commons is never the problem. Its the rare diyes that will make me wish it was account bound. Like midnight black. Getting the few colors that are rare you care about can become a pain over a fun progression.

With how the dye system works, it seems to make more sense having them be account based rather than per-character. Whatever they want to do, I guess, but I think I would prefer it to be account based, so I don't have to worry about swapping them around between characters and getting the dyes I want on the right characters, etc. If there are really 400+ dyes in the game, I don't see why it isn't account bound, that is A LOT of dye to collect on a per character basis.

The game is becoming more fixed towards pushing you to buy for convenience. In GW1 dyes were not for sale in the cash shop. Other than black and white they were cheap and readily available for everyone to buy.

Why do you think they hired the cash shop producer from nexon? You better hope you get the dye you want and not the one you already have.

First off if you want good statisticly relyable polls learn how to make a good one there are a few options missing and it is worded porely. I am supprised that 20% even hit with the way it was worded. That lets me know that this is not as big as a deal as pepole make it out to be. 

First off let me say this system is not complete. Also people do not understand it and have all the information. They said it is still in development. Let me quote John Peters on what he said about the Mystic Forge (In context it was about getting the armor you want from the new glory system implementation). I quote it for the last part.

John Peters
[quote]I can try to elaborate a bit, but it is still in progress. Basically there will a method or break down unwanted items. There will then be recipes with those pieces that can create specific items that you are looking for. These should all follow a pretty standard formula so that once you learn how to make a specific sword the recipe for making any specific sword should follow from that. We are still working out the exact details which is why we haven’t put it in yet. This current system has been in the game for less than a week so we know it doesn’t address the needs of players looking for specific rewards. There are still a lot of considerations.

Right now you guys are seeing some new systems that are very raw. By the next beta weekend they will be a lot more polished. We spent a lot of time working on this game and while we still get a lot of clamoring to release it already we are going to make sure we set right all of the changes we have made before doing so.

Jon[/quote]

Problems people have with the system the way they had it last BWE.
1. When a dye was unlocked it was not unlocked account wide.
2. There was no way to get the exact color you wanted.
3. Dyes in the cash shop used a Random number generator to give you the dye colors.
4. Once a dye is identified it is not tradable(They are account bound).

Regarding problem one: The dye system was not meant to be a collectors item it was meant to allow you to get the colors you want and apply them to your character. For those that want to collect everything this change should actually welcome this change as they can collect items on every character they create. For those that only wanted to collect it all once. Have fun doing so on your main. With your alts you can get the colors you want just like the rest of us were only planning on doing so in the first place. For those that argue well you said ..... Yes they may have said but things changed as things do that are under development. Don't expect them to keep to things when they iterate. Perhaps they found problems with the old system that they are not telling us. I am sure if you think about it objectively you can find a few problems for them or us when things are account based. I can. But will not expound on it as it will only make this post unnecessarily longer and is irrelevant.

Problem two:
Crystin Cox.2613 said:
[quote]We are working on a way for you to make the exact color of dye you want using the Mystic Forge. You will need to get a specific crafting material for each color but you will get the exact color you want.

We really don’t want dyes to be a Gem Store only feature, we understand that some people would be willing to pay more to get exact dyes or all the dyes but we want to keep some aspects of the dyes system in the game.
[/quote]

Now if this pleases everyone depends completely on how they implement it in game. We will have to wait and see. So instead of complaining about how things are due to they are guaranteed to change. State how you would like it implemented. Then we can discuss on the downfalls or upsides of your ideas. I think that is how come they implemented part of the system the way they did.

Her comment does invalidate any argument that they made it this way as a cash grab. As the Monitization Producer basically said no we don't want your money to solve this issue we want to solve it in game. If you still feel it is a cash grab after fully understanding the system and the system is fully implemented then I feel sorry for you. 

Problem three:
See quote in problem two. Also I think that they put the dye system for the completionist or for those that don't want to wait for dye drops. I can honestly see them(and hopefully they do) use identified dye(of any color) as one of the ingredients to get the color you want. This will resolve the duplicate and random drop issue with dyes for both the cash shop and in game. I still see some problems with the cash shop dyes being random but that could be solved with a voucher to get the dye you want. 

Problem 4: I think they did this to make it easier to get dye not harder. If they allowed this it would cause imbalance in the rarity of the dyes. Some dye colors if allowed in the trading post would cost a exorbitant amount of in game coin. As it did in Guild Wars 1. Others you could not even give away to someone(or with the appearance that would be the case) and would be just vender trash perhaps making some dyes only obtainable by random chance.

Now is not the right time to bring out pich forks and just blatenly complain as if it is set in stone. Or make assumptions they will not make things right (solve the duplicate dye problem, or make it too hard to get the specific color we want). Perhaps not changes in the way we think or some may want. But enough that the by far majority of the playerbase is happy.

Now is the right time to say this is how I would like this implemented. Or I would like XYZ things changed that are not set in stone. That is the differance between constructive criticism and just plain criticism. Constructive criticism no pich forks required. With constructive well though out criticism criticism that contain good points. Now is the time to give that type of criticism.

So instead of saying just point bank I am not happy with the way things are. Say I am not happy with the way things are, I would like XYZ changed in XYZ method to solve this problem. Then we can discuss on the downfalls of the systems changes we recommend. Who knows we might come up with a better system then what they had in mind and ArenaNet implements it.

Originally posted by Betakodo

The game is becoming more fixed towards pushing you to buy for convenience. In GW1 dyes were not for sale in the cash shop. Other than black and white they were cheap and readily available for everyone to buy.

Why do you think they hired the cash shop producer from nexon? You better hope you get the dye you want and not the one you already have.

Oh yeah man, a cosmetic item like dyes is gonna destory Guild Wars 2 cash shop. Everyone beware! Next they will charge you for unique outfits or hairstyles!

On topic, I am the fence. I easily see both sides. I find myself leaning toward the per account system myself. 400 is  a lot of dyes, and even if they do drop often, what happens if you get repeats? I know you can mystic forge it up, but what happens if the items you need to get that specific color is just as hard as collecting 400? If they can take out some of the RNG for dye drops then I am fine with it being per character.

I just have to laugh though when they say part of this is so the character feels unique with the dyes they have. If anything my other characters will feel less unique cause I won't be able to dye their gear in a way I want for them.