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Am I the only one that feels this way? Progression is fairly standard for a themepark title despite your not advancing in level every time your character becomes more powerful. Seeing as TSW's character progression system would still work with a traiditonal, level-based progression system, do you feel as if a lack of levels makes the game needlessly complex? Because there are no levels, I have no way to gauge whether or not I'm strong enough for a certain area, and more often than not, I keep finding myself in over my head by just following the storyline. |
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6/15/12 5:41:41 PM#2
Originally posted by SuperXero89 See thats the awesome thing about the secret world, it's a game that does NOT hold your hand, but for people like myself who played games like EQ or SWG to better fit the discription, there were ALOT of areas in those games that you had a hard time gauding yourself, I for one think it's a breath of fresh air! Keep at it bud you'll see the game will open up more and more, maybe try different builds ect, but in no way does the secret world need levels that is a bad thing! |
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6/15/12 5:44:08 PM#3
I like getting in over my head and learning my current boundaries. Its a lot more fun to me than just looking at a number by my avatar and saying "I will die if i go over there". Ive had a few good "oh shiii" moments from wandering into some tough mobs. Instead of saying to myself that I'll comeback when my level matches theirs, I'll check back from time to time and see how I fare. Its a lot more engaging for me. And more fun heh |
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6/15/12 5:44:42 PM#4
Originally posted by Aeolron spot on nice response.
There is no way to equate a number to TSW progression. That magic number doesn't exist.
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6/15/12 5:47:43 PM#5
Originally posted by SuperXero89 There are plenty of games with levels, if you don't like TSW don't play. The group of people who do like TSW VERY much like the progression system, |
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6/15/12 5:47:54 PM#6
TSW uses an indicator to show the relative strenght of any given monster versus yourself: the symbol at the left of the mobs name, and the *color* of that symbol. Note that the red or yellow text for the monster's *name* is NOT a difficulty indicator. A red name indicates a stronger/wider "aggro range" for such mobs. The system must have some way of measuring and comparing the relative strength of your character to the mobs though they won't call this your level. But yes, it can be difficult to tell if you are doing content too far above your "level" other than by dying regularly, in which case you need to backtrack to find quests closer in to the zone starting point. "Loading screens" are not "instances". |
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6/15/12 5:48:19 PM#7
Originally posted by cooper85 Love that line, might I borrow it some time :P That right there is the main thing you should look at if that makes any sense, Cooper keep using that line everytime someone says otherwise LOL Cheers |
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6/15/12 5:48:29 PM#8
Originally posted by cooper85 Oh sure there is. The magic numbers are called AP and SP. and those numbers will be the GearScore of TSW. Watch your thoughts; they become words. |
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Originally posted by Aeolron That's fine, but you have to look at it from the perspective of an average player. Just as the average consumer won't be interested in the nostalgia value of a black and white television, MMO players raised on post-WoW titles or players who appreciate modern convenience (players like me) probably won't tolerate constantly running into areas having no idea whether or not they're adequately equiped to handle the content. Lets not kid ourselves. TSW's character progression isn't exactly Darkfall or UO. You even have a WoW-style XP bar. I don't think there would be an issue to giving characters a level every time that bar fills up. I'm not sure if it's the lack of levels that's throwing me off, the questing system, or "level" scaling between areas. |
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6/15/12 5:52:39 PM#10
Originally posted by Kenze No no there is not. What level am I if I have 100 bilities and maxed out my 3 gear skills and 2 weapon skills? What level am I if I have 60 abilities and maxed out all 3 gear skills and amd part of 5 weapons? |
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6/15/12 5:54:32 PM#11
Originally posted by SuperXero89 Yes don't kid yourself if they did that number would be meaningless. You would have people who were "level" 576 and 800, 1029.... |
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6/15/12 5:54:33 PM#12
Originally posted by cooper85 I said nothing about LEVELS.. I was refering to progression as did the person i quoted. Watch your thoughts; they become words. |
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6/15/12 5:55:41 PM#13
Originally posted by SuperXero89 The yellow: This shows you do not understand TSW. The XP bar correlates to points you allocate. Not a linear progression. Maybe read up on it some then give it another go. |
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6/15/12 5:57:51 PM#14
Originally posted by SuperXero89Originally posted by Aeolron From what I understand from your OP, you don't really need levels for your problem: you need a way to con the mobs in relation to your own strength. Another poster in this thread has already given you the solution, a little colored sign next to a mob's name (don't know how this works, just reading what he wrote) that shows whether a mob is roughly the same strength as you, weaker or stronger. That should help, if that doesn't, juggle with builds or, you know, practice running, there's no shame in running away when you notice that a mob is a helluva lot stronger than you can handle :-D |
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Originally posted by cooper85 So there's no limit to the number of times that bar fills up?
Again, TSW is not a sandbox. You can clearly see that progression in TSW follows a linear path; however, players lack a way of relating how strong they are in comparison to the content they are facing. That doesn't work. |
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6/15/12 6:00:00 PM#16
Originally posted by Kenze Only for the trully bad players that cann't hack it. The ap an sp is more to guage your ability use the equipement you have, and the amount of abilities you can bring to a party (nothig like gear score as your stat-gear is pretty much a small part of the equation of hwo well you do in a instance, a well functioning group can do it with much less gear or abilities thru teamwork.). For the most part the symbol system is there to give you a visual way of gauging the strength of the mob, and is mostly done thru comparing the stats of the character to the mobs in question. The level based system of many games has a much smaller range within which you will be able to succeed in a instance, compared to tsw where a good functioning team can do content that even overgeared players might struggle with comparitively. also aa difficulty rating system is not a level system as one has hard caps that you can not defeat even if you work as a team, while the other can either be defeated thru teamwork of skilled play. |
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6/15/12 6:00:23 PM#17
So far, I like it the way it is. I don't want every game out there to play the same way, and I'm willing to see how TSW's system matures over the life of a character. I'm already digging all the options and potential with decks. |
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6/15/12 6:02:19 PM#18
Originally posted by KenzeOriginally posted by cooper85 I don't know if this is correct, since the number of AP and SP that you have aren't all invested in a vertical way, but also horizontal: you can spread them out over a number of weapons, or you can specialise and increase in 1 weapon's tiers, but I read somewhere that you'd gimp yourself if you'd spend for example all your 20 AP in just 1 weapon. So this horizontal+vertical progression options makes it different from when progression is only measured vertically regarding stats and skills. |
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6/15/12 6:03:38 PM#19
He do have a point though.
The average MMO player will not find this very fun at all. That is how simple it is. Now part of this is that the average MMO player of today was not part of the hobby back in the days of UO or EQ, part of it is that people tent to put their priotirs in a different order as they grow up.
And let's not pretend the system in this game is anything more then it is... Numbers... It would be cake to put a Level system in, a metric representation of your advancment. It would not fill much purpoes beyond familarity but it is not as hadr as some people like to make it out to be. But i think that a small option that you can tick/untick for a more graphical display of what area is "safe" or not would go a long way to smooth the transition for the new crowd.
Me i am glad as long as ICP dont come ganking my arse and steal all my reagents. This have been a good conversation |
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6/15/12 6:09:27 PM#20
as stated a few posts above this.
There is a con system in place, it is the symbol next to the NPC's name. It goes from Green->Blue->White->Yellow->Red.
Now, I don't have any real hard data, but that system seems to be judged off: a. The average QL of the weapons/talisman you have equipped. b. The number of SP you have in weapon & talisman skills.
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