Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by raven29

It takes 3 days to reach lvl 60 if you know what to do.  I wouldn't be surprised to see people hit lvl 80 in 4-5 days with a dedicated guild or group. WvW is broken and too easy to dominate with level advantage, abuse it.

Maybe change that to level 30?

Those who fast level in MMOs are ruining the genre.... A "normal" player won't level to 30 in 3 days, it will take them a LOT MORE days than that. Obviously "normal" is not someone who plays the game 24/7. I takes more than 30 hours to get to 30 but the whole point is NOT to play the game for the shake of leveling. Those who do it will miss what the game is all about....

If a person is only interested in World vs World and rushes to lv80, is he really missing what the game is all about? He will miss certain aspects, but then one key aspect he cares the most about won't be missed. 

Originally posted by seridan

Those who fast level in MMOs are ruining the genre.... A "normal" player won't level to 30 in 3 days, it will take them a LOT MORE days than that. Obviously "normal" is not someone who plays the game 24/7. I takes more than 30 hours to get to 30 but the whole point is NOT to play the game for the shake of leveling. Those who do it will miss what the game is all about....

? 30 hours sounds somewhat slower than average, especially since for all activities you're able to gain good xp. I didn't really measure it, but my guess is that 15-20 hours will get you close to 30 depending on activity maybe, from what I read of others and the dev statements, leveling up to level cap will be like 80-90 hrs played.

Of course, power levelers will probably do it in 50-60 hours or less just like in other MMO's via specific paths and routines, I already read some insane numbers, but I'm talking about averages here, by doing the regular activities.

With the automatic level scaling, I don't see a real issue with it, there's still a lot to do at level cap.

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by raven29

It takes 3 days to reach lvl 60 if you know what to do.  I wouldn't be surprised to see people hit lvl 80 in 4-5 days with a dedicated guild or group. WvW is broken and too easy to dominate with level advantage, abuse it.

Maybe change that to level 30?

Those who fast level in MMOs are ruining the genre.... A "normal" player won't level to 30 in 3 days, it will take them a LOT MORE days than that. Obviously "normal" is not someone who plays the game 24/7. I takes more than 30 hours to get to 30 but the whole point is NOT to play the game for the shake of leveling. Those who do it will miss what the game is all about....

Maybe, maybe not. Who are you to judge what others want or like?

It amuses me when you say "The whole point is NOT to play the game for leveling" just because you play casually and enjoy a slow pace doesn't mean everyone in the world should do the same, the world doesn't revolve around you. People can play and enjoy the game for whatever reasons they want, its their life. Those who go around judging others are mostly hypocrits and ignorant.

Leveling in any MMO is about how many hours you invest not days. If you play 3 hours a day then obviously you won't be hitting level 80 anytime soon. When I mentioned 3 days I was referring to the people who will play 20 hours daily with a good clan in WvW or 2man+ PvE group.

I thought most people here agreed with me that leveling in modern MMOs is too fast nowadays... I guess I was wrong.

But seeing how fast some people levels just during 2 weekends tells me that if the leveling speed should be changed it should be slowed down, not be increased.

Originally posted by Creslin321

So I was checking out the official forums, and it seems like the complaint du jour is:  

"I completed my starting zone but I'm not high enough level to go to the next zone."

Here are two threads that talk about this:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/GW2-feels-too-much-like-a-chore/page/1

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Clarification-on-most-leveling-complaints/page/1#post219865

 

Now...I just don't get these complaints.  If anyone has played the BWE, they should know that there is PLENTY of content to level you up on hearts alone if you want.  You just need to go to the other races' starting areas.  And that is as easy as taking a portal from your main city.

It seems like these posters basically just want to be completely led by the nose through their zone and their zone alone, and are not willing to even try to go anywhere else.  Instead they would rather complain that there isn't enough stuff to do on the boards.

If you can't tell, this annoys me because I don't want ANET to react to their feedback and increase the leveling speed so that they can go right from Queensdale to Kessex Hills.  What do you all think of this?

It's the result of a few things.

First, players who don't know the game and haven't read starting tips online have no idea how easy it is to get to the other race's areas, or even if they do know, they don't know exactly how.

Second, many players don't understand that you can level very efficiently off of lower level content, so they don't understand the point of going to another racial starting zone to do the level 2-6 content there, or even repeating lower level DEs in your own zone.

Third, a big one that made everything worse, Arenanet greatly reduced the broadcast range for Dynamic Events in BWE2, so even people that knew about DEs and understood that exploration was a good idea, still suffered a serious lack of DEs if they happened to not be in the right place at the right time. Arenanet said they did this to cut down on zergs, but that wasn't a very good reason, considering that even with the old broadcast ranges, many people complained about the difficulty of finding DEs in the level 2-6 areas during BWE1. Also, zergs in BWE1 met with properly scaling DEs and were only going to be seen at all during the early days of the game when the populations are more concentrated in one narrow level range.

I think the anti zerg thing was spurred by some complaints from a vocal minority after BWE1 that branded the game as a "zerg fest". It really wasn't, but someone at Arenanet was way too sensative to the accusation and made a bad adjustment based on that reaction.

If they restore the old broadcast range for Dynamic Events, provide some sort of tutorial guidance on how to easily travel to the other racial cities and also provide some tutorial advice about level scaling, then most of these complaints will go away.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot, if people do at least a couple stages of their Personal Story, they probably will have no issues at all getting out of the 2-6 area of the starting zone. The further beyond level 6 you get, the less a problem this becomes.

The design of the whole WvWvW PVP thing is so dumb and hidden that I bet most of these people don't even know it exists. I constantly see people asking how they get into the PVP because the UI is bad and doesn't give any clear indication.

Originally posted by raven29

Maybe, maybe not. Who are you to judge what others want or like?

 I suggest you read at least the OP and the linked threads before posting.

There is absolutely no need to increase the experience gain, it's already fast enough. Those who want "fast leveling" are ruining the genre, combined with complaints about leveling in this game being slow (isn't this the point of this thread?)

It amuses me when you say "The whole point is NOT to play the game for leveling" just because you play casually and enjoy a slow pace doesn't mean everyone in the world should do the same, the world doesn't revolve around you. People can play and enjoy the game for whatever reasons they want, its their life. Those who go around judging others are mostly hypocrits and ignorant.

Yes they enjoy the game for whatever reason they want, but that doesn't mean they can complain about the leveling speed now can't they? Those who go around and complain about leveling speed because they can't reach the cap in a day are far worse. And this way of thinking is wrong because there is no end game after level cap. I'm not a "casual" player by any menas, but for GW2 I will change my playstyle considerably.

Leveling in any MMO is about how many hours you invest not days. If you play 3 hours a day then obviously you won't be hitting level 80 anytime soon. When I mentioned 3 days I was referring to the people who will play 20 hours daily with a good clan in WvW or 2man+ PvE group.

Rephrasing: "the whole point -OF PVE- is NOT to play the game for the shake of leveling".

Maybe I should've made it more clear that my post was about the topic of this thread and not just an answer to your post....

The whole topic was about those who complain about PVE leveling being slow and answered exactly to that, they are doing it wrong if they play just for the leveling, and no that's not an opinion I'll change ever. Now WvWvW is completely different

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

If a person is only interested in World vs World and rushes to lv80, is he really missing what the game is all about? He will miss certain aspects, but then one key aspect he cares the most about won't be missed. 

As I answered to raven29, I should've made it clear it was an answer to the whole topic not only a single post. No he won't miss anything, he can level to 80 as fast as he want.

I posted on their Official Forums in their Impromptu poll:

"#1:  MMORPG.com forums have a real Poll function built in, why don't YOU Anet??

#2: I think we actually level TOO FAST."

And I mean it... we're currently at the same leveling pace of  1-10 Factions, followed by 10-20 in Eye of the North.  ...while that might be fun on your 4th or 5th Alt.... it's way too fast for our first characters that we're just trying to explore everything on b/c we totally outlevel everything 2x over just by trying to fully explore everything in 2 Racial zones while Crafting.   ...Most people don't even seem to understand that a single crafting disciplines gives you 10 extra levels...

Originally posted by Thorbrand

Let's see in BWE 1 I leveled to 21 in BWE 2 I am still lvl 21...

I wonder why.  One of my guildmates started a new Engineer charcter in BWE2 and got him to level 27...   And it's not like Engineers are the most solo-friendly, power-leveling class.

Originally posted by dlld

You shouldn't be forced to hop to another races area (or grind) that's just bad design. I did all hearts all story quests found all waypoints and areas of interest in my lvl range in the human starting area (aswell as quite a few in the city) while completing every DE i came across yet when i was about to go through the garrison you defend in the tutorial I found myself 2! levels lower (4) then i should be (6). Something is wrong with the xp gain. (played human slum background)

Sorry mate, it was you.   I know you don't want to to hear it, but it is.   You simply moved too fast and missed too many DEs, missed too much exploration, too many unique monster kills and obviously didn't avail yourself to crafting.

I did that with my first character in BWE1.   Now I've run up five more and I can see how and why it happens.  I also see that there is more than enough XP in every area if you don't rush through it.

Originally posted by Creslin321

So I was checking out the official forums, and it seems like the complaint du jour is:  

"I completed my starting zone but I'm not high enough level to go to the next zone."

Here are two threads that talk about this:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/GW2-feels-too-much-like-a-chore/page/1

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Clarification-on-most-leveling-complaints/page/1#post219865

 

Now...I just don't get these complaints.  If anyone has played the BWE, they should know that there is PLENTY of content to level you up on hearts alone if you want.  You just need to go to the other races' starting areas.  And that is as easy as taking a portal from your main city.

It seems like these posters basically just want to be completely led by the nose through their zone and their zone alone, and are not willing to even try to go anywhere else.  Instead they would rather complain that there isn't enough stuff to do on the boards.

If you can't tell, this annoys me because I don't want ANET to react to their feedback and increase the leveling speed so that they can go right from Queensdale to Kessex Hills.  What do you all think of this?

This was fun to do. Especially going out and grabbing All the Skill Challenges, only 3 I couldn't get due to them being bugged.

Though, I think the cost to teleport should be lowered, it gets really expensive teleporting to and out of +15 lvl zones.

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

Now...I just don't get these complaints.  If anyone has played the BWE, they should know that there is PLENTY of content to level you up on hearts alone if you want.  You just need to go to the other races' starting areas.  And that is as easy as taking a portal from your main city.

Yup. That's what I want to do. After I get tired of saving my race from extinction by horses, I will head over the Ascalon and help lions rape the memory of my anscestors.

Sorry, but GW2's design is supposed to increase my sense of immersion, not kick it in the nuts and laugh at it.

Originally posted by Creslin321

It seems like these posters basically just want to be completely led by the nose through their zone and their zone alone, and are not willing to even try to go anywhere else.  Instead they would rather complain that there isn't enough stuff to do on the boards.

The issue is not that we are not lead by our noses. The issue is that we have no in character reason to go anywhere but the next zone. Nor is there any reason to think that taking a random portal tucked away somewhere in your city is the only way to advance without grinding content.

Originally posted by Creslin321

If you can't tell, this annoys me because I don't want ANET to react to their feedback and increase the leveling speed so that they can go right from Queensdale to Kessex Hills.  What do you all think of this?

I'm absolutely fine with the currently leveling speed. I'm also fine with giving choices about where to adventure (which GW2 hasn't done for me, yet).

I'm NOT fine with the disparity between level progression and zone progression, and none of you should be either. This does not have to be solved with increased leveling speed, it could also be increased with more content in any form, or through some story crumbs giving you a reason to think going somewhere else might benefit the world.

Age of Conan had this issue too, and the same solution (just go to someone else's zone, then you'll be fine!) It was the one single reason that I stopped playing the game (I refuse to grind).

GW2 is a great game, and I've been a huge fan boy of it for a long time. However, when I take my fanboy glasses off and look at this, I see a very real, very serious situation that ArenaNet should not ignore.

Originally posted by Banquetto

 

---

Originally posted by Creslin321
You just need to go to the other races' starting areas.  And that is as easy as taking a portal from your main city.

---

A lot of people would prefer not to feel forced to visit another starting area to level up enough to handle the area following their own starting area. They would prefer to hit that race's area fresh with an alt.

 

Also, I suspect a lot of people are accustomed to devs putting their best foot forward with starting zones, and they think "if there's not enough content in the first zone to progress past it without repeating events, how little content will there be later on??"

You're not forced.   You can, if you slow down and learn to play the game, be over-leveled for every area without repeating material.   I was certainly able to do that in the Norn area.   I was able to do that (twice) in the Charr area.  I was able to do that (twice) in the human area.   And the only time I was underleveled was with my first character because I got in such a rush I skipped half the stuff that was going on in the starter area and got a bit behind.

It really is a playstyle issue.  

So, yes, if you're going to RUSH, then you're going to have to rush other racial areas.   But if you're just going to play the game to the fullest extent possible, then you're going to be fine.

Originally posted by Arataki

At the moment, GW2 does not do a very good job of explaining itself. Hearts are not the end all, be all of an area. They are simply intended to lure you to a spot and from there, your interactions with the NPCs were supposed to kick off small missions which snowballed into DEs. However, there is absolutely nothing in the game that even hints to this.

Second, yes, if you are underleveled, you will have a bit of an issue exploring as mobs will kick your ass. And there is a very large flaw in "zomg, just go to another races starting area for exp." It's called replayability. Visiting other races starting area for exp, means that playing any of those starting races is going to be an exercise in repetition. There is an equally large flaw in assuming that everyone should be happy with a large amount of their necessary exp coming from crafting.

Third, simply telling people that "leveling is not the point" is neatly counteracted by the personal story have very clear level requirements. You are only level 14 and have finished Queensdale? You probably wouldn't really give it a second thought, if there wasn't that big red (16) next your personal story based in the next zone where everything is slapping you around.

Fourth, repetition is repetition. Do you know what the term is for a game design that encourages doing the same thing over and over? A grind. No one explores to see the same thing. 2 or 3 times, ok, maybe. However, if people are getting bored of an event the fifth time around, it is doing no one any favours to claim that they were "just in the wrong mindset."

I didn't get very far in but needed to applaud this poster for not thinking like the rest of the sheep that visit mmorpg who swear that GW2 can do no wrong and if something is wrong it's the players fault and not the game or devs.  I've seen many people explain that you can level up by simply taking part in every single type of content in the game, forget that some people don't want to craft or explore or that some may not find the systems used by ANET to be to their liking.

I'm not saying that Anet needs to change the level curve or not but we certainly shouldn't assume that kf a part of the population has a problem that our playstyles can simply fix it for them.

Originally posted by MosesZD

 

You're not forced.   You can, if you slow down and learn to play the game, be over-leveled for every area without repeating material.   I was certainly able to do that in the Norn area.   I was able to do that (twice) in the Charr area.  I was able to do that (twice) in the human area.   And the only time I was underleveled was with my first character because I got in such a rush I skipped half the stuff that was going on in the starter area and got a bit behind.

 

It really is a playstyle issue.  

 

[mod edit]

I'm a completionist in terms of heart quests, exploration and DEs, and I often retried events several times before I succeeded.

am now level 20 in level 25 content as a human and level 16 in level 19 content as a Charr.

The only way to be of equal level is to go to another area that you have no in character reason to go to, or to grind DEs.

we already lvl to fast and peopel want more speed on lvl??? loool.

you will have 5 start zones, anyone complain about cant reach lvl 15 to go zones 15-25 is because never leave the zone they start. 

start zones is like any other zones, exist to be explored....

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Chrome1980

Yes it is a game for explorers and right now in starting areas especially at low levels the way things work one has to squeeze out every possible content avilable. XP certainly need some tweaking but then that will make XP boosters in cash shop redundant. To keep the replayability factor fresh  and rolling alts less boring players shouldn't have to do each and every heart quest, explore every corner and do every dynamic event in order to progress on every alt they roll out. First time it is interesting but not on second or third alt.

Well, two things about that.

You dont' have to do it ALL, you just have to do more than the bare minimum.

Two, there's =5= starting zones.  5.  That's 5 alts worth of separate material if you squeeze the worth out of a zone, not even taking into account that sometimes different things DO happen.

By the time you're on character 6, maybe a person should consider WvW.

... and they're supposed to have a live content team patching in new events, so that should cut down on the feeling of redundancy as well, especially if you go through 5 characters worth before rolling around a second time.

Or they could just tweak XP and increase frequency of DE's and add more heart events. On my third alt i was really stating to feel the repetition. That is the easiest fix they can do atleast for release so that i can skip what i want and still level comfortably.

You've gotten two to cap?   Oh, no, of  course not...   How silly...     Yeah, if you do the same area(s) three times in six days...   You're gonna get repetition...

BWE2 -- One Norn, Two Charr...   Some human (from BWE1) in a new area.    An amazing lack of repetition.   Even within the Charr.   There were a few things I doubled-down on.  Mostly the heart quests.   But not the DEs.  I did not repeat a single DE in the Charr zone despite playing two Charr from 1-to-8.

And I really hope to God they don't capitulate to you and others like you.   Every time a developer caves to the 'make it easy for me' crowd, the game gets churned and dumped in months.   SWTOR being the perfect example.   Multiple end-game characters in the month I played because they gave TOO MUCH XP at the request of the MAKE IT EASY crowd.   Now the game is consolidating over 200+ servers into somewhere around 20-to-30 for various reasons, including the fact people have consumed 80% of the PvE content in two play-throughs (1 imperial, 1 republic).

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by MosesZD

 

You're not forced.   You can, if you slow down and learn to play the game, be over-leveled for every area without repeating material.   I was certainly able to do that in the Norn area.   I was able to do that (twice) in the Charr area.  I was able to do that (twice) in the human area.   And the only time I was underleveled was with my first character because I got in such a rush I skipped half the stuff that was going on in the starter area and got a bit behind.

 

It really is a playstyle issue.  

 

This is a flat out lie.

I'm a completionist in terms of heart quests, exploration and DEs, and I often retried events several times before I succeeded.

am now level 20 in level 25 content as a human and level 16 in level 19 content as a Charr.

The only way to be of equal level is to go to another area that you have no in character reason to go to, or to grind DEs.

Put on proof.   I, along with mutiple others, have done just that and not had any issue.   My guild master.   People on this board.   People on other boards. 

Yet you're calling me a liar.  

Characters advance throughout the game by gaining experience until they reach the maximum level cap of 80. Experience is gained by:

• Participating in events.
• Completing personal storyline objectives
• Crafting
• Killing monsters
• Reviving
• Exploring
• Playing mini games

After the first few levels, the time or effort required to attain a new level remains constant.

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by Creslin321

 

Now...I just don't get these complaints.  If anyone has played the BWE, they should know that there is PLENTY of content to level you up on hearts alone if you want.  You just need to go to the other races' starting areas.  And that is as easy as taking a portal from your main city.

Yup. That's what I want to do. After I get tired of saving my race from extinction by horses, I will head over the Ascalon and help lions rape the memory of my anscestors.

 

Sorry, but GW2's design is supposed to increase my sense of immersion, not kick it in the nuts and laugh at it.

 

Originally posted by Creslin321

It seems like these posters basically just want to be completely led by the nose through their zone and their zone alone, and are not willing to even try to go anywhere else.  Instead they would rather complain that there isn't enough stuff to do on the boards.

The issue is not that we are not lead by our noses. The issue is that we have no in character reason to go anywhere but the next zone. Nor is there any reason to think that taking a random portal tucked away somewhere in your city is the only way to advance without grinding content.

 

I'm glad to see someone caring for immersion. I had exactly the same problem with the "go to other areas" argument. How is my char suposed to know this? Why would my character go there?

It seems that people prefer to play GW2 just for fun content and don't care about coherence or consistancy. People really went full tunnel vision when it comes to the ideas behind GW2's design. I already made a thread about certain aspects in GW2 that are immersion breaking, but most people did not really seem to care for the things I listed. This was one of them.