My biggest problem with the MMORPG genre is that game developers use all sorts of psychological tactics to try to get people to play their games as long as possible.  This can be in the form of grinding out levels, grinding out instanced pvp games, or raiding for that next purply epic among others.  There is always a carrot and when they run out of carrots, people seem to quit.  If the game is fun, then why quit in the absense of carrots?  And why do you even want a carrot in the first place?  I remember starting out in WoW and grinding toward max level so that I wouldn't have to level anymore and could have fun just killing people.  Then they added crazy gear progression every which way. 

A lot of gamers seem addicted to the idea of progression and will do all sorts of boring things in order to just get a little more powerful.  But the real question is:  Is this game I am playing fun?  And if it isn't fun, why am I playing it?

I've come up with a single question that will determine whether you actually enjoy your current mmorpg or if you are being manipulated to perform tasks for treats.

If your current mmorpg did not have any form of character progression, would you still find it fun?

Not currently playing one. 

But of the ones I used to play: Yes, some higher end goal was the only reason I continued to play (epic shinies, making 1bil isk within a month, titles, killing LK, etc. etc.)

I say "continued to play" because what intially hooks me is usually the class system, and finding the class that's right for me.  I end up staying for the goals!

PS: Fish biscuits?!

My "current" MMORPG hasn't been released yet, won't be released until it's ready, and yes I find it both addictive and fun. There's no character progression in the form of an ever increasing power curve, but there is progression on a more cosmetic sense, gaining dungeon specific armor sets that will be quite challenging to acquire. There's exploration progression, crafting progression (can max out all eight lines), massive amounts of PvP...

Keep your carrots. I have a big bowl of raw meat here to fry up on the grill.

Character progression is the reason I got into this genre in the first place. Advancing in levels and skills... aquiring items and weath...gives reason to playing in a persistant game world. Why remove that?

I play in other peoples' worlds because no matter what wild fantasies and mathematical models fly through my head,  in the end a team of well-organized professionals can still do a better job at making these than I alone can.

I currently play Eve, DCUO and beta TSW.

I don't actively try to get the "best" gear in any of these games.

I enjoy the lore and themes and settings in each.

For me, if a game becomes more like a second job, I consider quitting.

I play to have fun.

In Eve: I enjoy exploration, lite mining, hauling and mission running.

In DC: I enjoy the setting and the shape my character takes on.

In TSW: I enjoy the puzzles, exploration and lore.

I play Ultima Online still(not EA's trash servers). The game is a living breathing world. There are no carrots... but they do give you lots of dirt and seeds and let you make your own. UO is a fun game, and the magic happens in the social interactions.

Originally posted by Edeus

Not currently playing one. 

 

But of the ones I used to play: Yes, some higher end goal was the only reason I continued to play (epic shinies, making 1bil isk within a month, titles, killing LK, etc. etc.)

I say "continued to play" because what intially hooks me is usually the class system, and finding the class that's right for me.  I end up staying for the goals!

PS: Fish biscuits?!

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fish_biscuit

that is most of games really, why you still play soccer at the wekkends? because its with your friends, if your friends stop you stop too, MMO push this because if we only play for the grind we would stop on first dead, because we would question what is the point?

main reason I stoped playing aion now is guild is dead, other reason its f2p now, plus after 2 years doing the same thing day after day and since I don't have to play I can log one time a week or month and nothing will change, and that is just because I bought a house in game and need to log on that time to pay for the rent and maybe some farm to keep money for the house,

right now depending on how things go I will play TSW till GW2 hit, because TSW I can see it survive enough till you do all quests, after that will not see much of a reason to keep playing

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Originally posted by mmoguy43
Character progression is the reason I got into this genre in the first place. Advancing in levels and skills... acquiring items and wealth...gives reason to playing in a persistent game world. Why remove that?

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My thought as well- while I prefer that progression is in the form of something more than just gear and stats I can't see why I would choose this genre- story and combat are often better in single player games and PvP is better in MOBAs and FPSs.

Originally posted by pierth

 

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Originally posted by mmoguy43
Character progression is the reason I got into this genre in the first place. Advancing in levels and skills... acquiring items and wealth...gives reason to playing in a persistent game world. Why remove that?

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My thought as well- while I prefer that progression is in the form of something more than just gear and stats I can't see why I would choose this genre- story and combat are often better in single player games and PvP is better in MOBAs and FPSs.

Thirded. Regardless of boohooing over how MMOs are "supposed to be" virtual fantasy world simulators, character progression in a populated persistent world has been a main feature of the genre dating all the way back to DikuMUDs. Of course it would suffer if you took that away. It really would be no different than saying that you're "addicted" to the story element of Max Payne if you stop playing as soon as you get to the end of the story, and would not bother playing the game if the story was removed.

I like them and im somewhat addicted.

I love progressing characters through leveling content.

I'll do it over and over I find it to be so much fun.

Originally posted by mmoguy43

Character progression is the reason I got into this genre in the first place. Advancing in levels and skills... aquiring items and weath...gives reason to playing in a persistant game world. Why remove that?

this.

Addiction is an negative excuse used by many people to ridicule others that enjoy stuff that they dont.

"its all in your head" -Mmoexposed

Considering I am 100% maxed out in my current MMORPG (Achievements, all equips, all classes, maxed out completely), yet I still find it fun, yes.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

My biggest problem with the MMORPG genre is that game developers use all sorts of psychological tactics to try to get people to play their games as long as possible.  This can be in the form of grinding out levels, grinding out instanced pvp games, or raiding for that next purply epic among others.  There is always a carrot and when they run out of carrots, people seem to quit.  If the game is fun, then why quit in the absense of carrots?  And why do you even want a carrot in the first place?  I remember starting out in WoW and grinding toward max level so that I wouldn't have to level anymore and could have fun just killing people.  Then they added crazy gear progression every which way. 

A lot of gamers seem addicted to the idea of progression and will do all sorts of boring things in order to just get a little more powerful.  But the real question is:  Is this game I am playing fun?  And if it isn't fun, why am I playing it?

 

I've come up with a single question that will determine whether you actually enjoy your current mmorpg or if you are being manipulated to perform tasks for treats.

 

If your current mmorpg did not have any form of character progression, would you still find it fun?

 

 

It's a loaded question....considering modern MMORPGs (specifically...the father of them, WOW) ARE exclusively about character progression.

In a sandbox environment, character progression can mean any number of things.  In modern themepark style MMOs, your primary function is to upgrade your gear.  Upgrading your gear (character progression) means you get to tackle harder content....which drops better gear....which allows you to tackle harder content....which drops better gear...

A more appropriate question might read "Are you treading water (going through the motions) in your current MMO, while waiting for something new?"

This is the space I've spent WAY too much time in, while waiting for something new that could give me that same feeling I had when I started the game I'm currently playing.  For each MMO that I've played longer than a year.....I always stayed 6+ months longer than I probably needed to because there just wasn't anything better available.

Character progression is a basic tenant of the MMORPG genre, otherwise you're playing some other type of game.

I play multiple games so not really addicted to any. Used to be "addicted" to aion, but I glad I finally broke free from it. I originally got into MMORPG for their longevity as compared to other genre but given the path that WOW and it's clones were heading, I decided to move back to playing just for fun.

I asked myself what was the point of all those years of character "progression" what did I get from it and all I got was nothing.

I have been playing mmorpg's for about 13 years,now I'm getting tired of those games,early this year I did decide to give 3 more games a change before I took a major brake from mmo's,those 3 games are GW2, EQ3 and one other that I dont know what it is yet.

Vile having had lots of fun in the past years playing mmo's this is changing for me now I'm not enjoing those games much anymore,offline games like Skyrim and Fallout keep me playing for longer houres than resent mmo's does.

What is the reason why the games dont get a grip on me anymore is probsbly I'm getting burnedout since the games must be getting better and better all the time with new technic and stuff,or maybe they are not getting any better  I dont know:-(

Originally posted by Vidir

I have been playing mmorpg's for about 13 years,now I'm getting tired of those games,early this year I did decide to give 3 more games a change before I took a major brake from mmo's,those 3 games are GW2, EQ3 and one other that I dont know what it is yet.

Vile having had lots of fun in the past years playing mmo's this is changing for me now I'm not enjoing those games much anymore,offline games like Skyrim and Fallout keep me playing for longer houres than resent mmo's does.

What is the reason why the games dont get a grip on me anymore is probsbly I'm getting burnedout since the games must be getting better and better all the time with new technic and stuff,or maybe they are not getting any better  I dont know:-(

I left for SP games back around mid 06. I understand where you are coming from.

Without the follow up to the KOTOR series being in MMO form, I was done with them myself. More so for the fact you cant make a bathroom run when ya want, and if ya happen to fall asleep from a vico too many that day, you arent paying a price....or worse someone else on your account.

I do agree that SP games are a lot better time than MMOs for gameplay by itself. MMOs shine if ya have a few good friends. The trick is meeting folks with same mind sets these days, as back in 01(or before for some) most of us had a bit of a nerd side.

Side note....Dragons Dogma wasnt seeming like a bad SP game. I havent gotten very far, but it might be worth a rental for ya. Although I bought it, I would never recommend a purchase until actually playing thru a game.

Originally posted by BigHatLogan
...

If your current mmorpg did not have any form of character progression, would you still find it fun? ...

If my current MMORPG didn't have any form of character progression it wouldn't be an MMORPG but an MMO-something and I wouldn't play it.