Too good to be true?

I know you have to have a vision, but all these new mmos i keep seeing coming out on kickstarter all appear to have everything you ever wanted in an mmo.

The problem is all those features are so incredibly complicated to create and balance that even a well funded(meaning millions of dollars)  studio would have issues pulling that off.

An Indi studio doing it?

Good luck to you guys, and if you can do what you say you can i'd sub for life.

We'll just have to wait and see :)

On the side of hope...the team is larger than most indie teams, and have been together for almost a year now, working hard.

It does seem to good to be true to me.

There is something 'off' about the artwork. What is listed here as screenshots look like concept art, and while the artist has talent, he/she doesn't look professional. I hate to say it but it looks more like a gifted high school student's art then say a Todd MacFarlane.

It worries me that this isn't going to be a polished product, even if it does make it to release.

all indie sandbox developers go crazy listing features before release.

I never saw any of them delivering... in fact not even the mega hits in the Triple A market do it, there's always something unfinished or "to be released", something that was supposed to be ready in day 1.

I'm intersted in this game, but  very very cautious. Have you seen the video where the dev explain the siege mechanics ? man... the system itself is as complex as a whole game ! I don't think they can/will deliver that much with at least a playable game, its just too much for a NO BUDGET project (they are doing the game without investments, so the dev said in the kickstarter video). 

We don't need a second Mortal, a second Darkfall, a second Earthrise, a second Xsyon.... 

Idie sandbox developers think they can deliver a shity product just because they are "doing what we want, and have no money, poor dev :(".  

I'm tired of those excuses and find it odd that so many people keep supporting this kind of behavior at the same time they bash other games for being faulty. 

Considering that this sounds eerily like Darkfall, I'm not too excited atm. I'm not afraid of the devs. I'm afraid of the players.

They have allowed open PvP. The question is, is it FFA PvP, i.e., is there any way a player can exist normally without having to watch out for gank squads everywhere or never go anywhere (no, that's not how a real medieval world works). If the PvP is not curbed, I don't see this game surviving for long, especially in the shadow of EVE Online. But there may be a mass migration from Darkfall. Nevertheless, I believe badly curbed PvP will murder any game.

"One of the things that our team has been adamant about since the very start of the project is that we wanted to create a game world that wasn't just another mindless death match. We wanted for there to actually be reasons for people to choose to fight beyond personal disputes, a desire to kill, and forum flame wars that spilled over into game." - accomplish this, and you will be fine (no, I do not believe EVE accomplishes this. The game is frequently very "kill for giggles" to an unallowable extent. If you kill someone for giggles, the game should punish you). In fact, it would be nice if there was any motivation NOT to fight, because fighting historically has been, honestly, a waste of time.

There's hope with the crafting system, that's where non-combat crazy players may potentially find their home, but who knows. Secondary attractors are socialization, crafting, exploration. If I can mind my own business and go out and make a home in a cave while defending against the occassional griefer, I would play this game. Or, if you can effectively live in a city and join the city's army and participate in combat there or something like that. If I can retain my individuality and not just become a mere drone of some random clan. And whether or not my skill DURING the battle (not prior) matters at all. Really depends.

On the other hand, I do not really believe in the "It's too much work, they'll never finish it" talk. First of all, people frequently build behemoths of their own when in reality things are rather simplified. A lot of information doesn't seem available atm. Second of all, many companies these days work in funny formats where they lose lots of time and resources. A company that manages itself well maybe leaps and bounds ahead in terms of what they deliver. That's up to them, the management, the team, how big the teams are.

44,000 sq km. world. Handcrafted, that's pretty big, I would presume there are a lot of empty areas (aka SWG) in it, some generation, some handcrafted elements.

Crafting, skill systems, housing, religion, even siege systems, etc., are more of a balancing problem than an implementation one. It can be clunky, awkward, result in some ugly things (urban sprawl), but it can be done in time. Castles, sieges, etc., have been done in other games before.

It's a serious list of things, and it's a lot of work to put that list together. Improbable, perhaps. Far from impossible, tho.

Just don't expect it to be ultra-mega polish and value the world developers may have created for you, if these things were what you wanted.

Open PvP and regional conflicts is what will make this game great. We can only wait and see for development results.

Originally posted by Zorgo

There is something 'off' about the artwork. What is listed here as screenshots look like concept art, and while the artist has talent, he/she doesn't look professional. I hate to say it but it looks more like a gifted high school student's art then say a Todd MacFarlane.

 lol wut?

best high school art EVAR!

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Outlaws.jpg

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Serpents_coil.jpg

Honestly though, I am cautious as well. But someone has to take risks right?

We've already seen what indie companies (can't) do on their own when it comes to MMOs. Needing kickstarter should give people even more pause for thought. Great ideas that cant be implemented properly and thats with some decent funding, product from charity? Doubtful at best.

Originally posted by Kabaal

We've already seen what indie companies (can't) do on their own when it comes to MMOs. Needing kickstarter should give people even more pause for thought. Great ideas that cant be implemented properly and thats with some decent funding, product from charity? Doubtful at best.

I believe that they dont just plan on making the game with the $30,000+ they are raising. This money is for the prototype so they can get real money from investors.

The initial 25k kickstarter is for licenses.

As for kickstarter funding, it was proposed by community, not developers.

Originally posted by EndDream

Originally posted by Zorgo

There is something 'off' about the artwork. What is listed here as screenshots look like concept art, and while the artist has talent, he/she doesn't look professional. I hate to say it but it looks more like a gifted high school student's art then say a Todd MacFarlane.

 lol wut?

best high school art EVAR!

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Outlaws.jpg

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/images/concept_art/Serpents_coil.jpg

 

Honestly though, I am cautious as well. But someone has to take risks right?

yeah, but I'm specifically talking about the pictures with people in them.....can't figure out how to get to the individual picture links you got...but the front page banner folks are a good example of what I mean:

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/

As are any of these images with detailed pictures (shows facial details and such) of 'people':

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/content.php/214-Concept-Art

And I did say 'gifted' high school  student /wink.

Keep in mind that the ones which aren't so good were done quite a while ago by a different artist. The newer, better ones are from the current artist, so we can probably expect better from now on, and some reworks. There has already been one rework, and the two on the website pages I'm thinking will be redone soon as well.

It does. But I will at least try it out. If it will be just half as good as I think it could be it would still be the most amazing game ever.

What you base this game on? The pictures made that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the game?

Or the 2 videos, which look ALOT like Darkfall?

I mean comon. Look at the top picture at there official site. Its just ridicules.

I dont believe in this being anything.

Originally posted by mikethk

What you base this game on? The pictures made that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the game?

 

Or the 2 videos, which look ALOT like Darkfall?

 

 

I mean comon. Look at the top picture at there official site. Its just ridicules.

 

 

I dont believe in this being anything.

If you spent more than 5 sec reading about the game, you would understand that it's pretty much in prototype development stage, meaning that you won't get more than few concept art pictures. Also, if you judge the game on a web banner which nobody cares about then good luck with your gaming experience.

Kids these days...

Even if it does come out like Darkfall with features missing or yet to be implemented, all we would need is a competent dev team that actually works on their product to blow every fantasy sandbox made in the last 10 years completely away.

And thats setting their sights pretty low to be honest

Originally posted by Nefastus

If you spent more than 5 sec reading about the game, you would understand that it's pretty much in prototype development stage, meaning that you won't get more than few concept art pictures. Also, if you judge the game on a web banner which nobody cares about then good luck with your gaming experience.

Kids these days...

Well what can i say.... Watch and learn....

Wait and see....

And yes i judge it on the banner, ofc i do. . . The banner looks like shit.

Save this thread and learn that i was right:

This game will contain poorly AI mobs, funny bug's, lowend graphic's and no population.....

I judge because i have the xp to do so. I know it just by watching the banner. I cant proof it, but watch and learn.

Originally posted by Elandir90

all indie sandbox developers go crazy listing features before release.

 

I never saw any of them delivering... in fact not even the mega hits in the Triple A market do it, there's always something unfinished or "to be released", something that was supposed to be ready in day 1.

I'm intersted in this game, but  very very cautious. Have you seen the video where the dev explain the siege mechanics ? man... the system itself is as complex as a whole game ! I don't think they can/will deliver that much with at least a playable game, its just too much for a NO BUDGET project (they are doing the game without investments, so the dev said in the kickstarter video). 

 

We don't need a second Mortal, a second Darkfall, a second Earthrise, a second Xsyon.... 

Idie sandbox developers think they can deliver a shity product just because they are "doing what we want, and have no money, poor dev :(".  

I'm tired of those excuses and find it odd that so many people keep supporting this kind of behavior at the same time they bash other games for being faulty. 

Mortal and Darkfall are my favorite MMO's out. Yes I realize they are smaller and indie but the gameplay template of open world FFA pvp and full loot fantasy sandbox is all that I will play. By the time 2016 comes around I will probably be ready to quit Mortal and play EOC.

My point is I and others like me will play whatever fits this type of gameplay regardless of the negatives because its what we want.

Originally posted by Grixxitt

 

Even if it does come out like Darkfall with features missing or yet to be implemented, all we would need is a competent dev team that actually works on their product to blow every fantasy sandbox made in the last 10 years completely away.

And thats setting their sights pretty low to be honest

Well AV is working hard on there game....

Its ridicules you cant see it, but let me sum what they have done, that nobody else have done.

1. Server changing without loadtime... Even without noticing you are changing server. Thats fucking well done.

2. FPS on moving objects as the ship battles... And it works VERY well.

3. A game engine that is easy changable. DF 2.0 isent a new game, its a HUGE patch/redoing of DF 1.0 the engine.

4. FPS boss fights. . . I cant tell if its a good idea, but noone else have done it.

DF 1.0 was made to start the company. DF 2.0 is the full game and is worth waiting for vs. EoC.

I agree with the OP:

Have we not been burned enough?  Indie game after indie game promises the universe in terms of their up and coming game (especially with sandboxes) and like the OP said it is their own ambition that does them in.  The amount of balance and bug fixing required for these types of systems requires a large dedicated staff which in turn requires money.

All of these indies have a few things in common:

1) great features listed, great 'potential', screenshots look incredible, growing fan base

2) a bazillion problems at release that literally take them years to sort out

3) fan base plummets because of all the problems and balance issues, game is usually ripe with exploiters and hackers early on (Sandboxes seem to be a magnet for the hacking/exploiting types)

4) game limps on with a very, very small playerbase.

4) rinse and repeat.

I hope for the best, and, if this game can pull it off they will certainly have my money...but, I'm doubtful.