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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » E3 2012: Vanguard trailer

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43 posts found
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1458

6/12/12 11:28:00 PM#21
Originally posted by mmoguy43
Originally posted by Aethaeryn

Is it just me?  I like Vangaurd and think that trailer looks terrible.  The game seemed to look better to me when I played it.  Maybe it as just the immersion factor?  That looked pretty uninsipring to me.  I will be playing for sure though. . I love the game.

The trailer was made like all of the other generic MMORPG trailers that are full of 2 second clips of combat. That is a really terrible way to generate interested in Vanguard. They should have highlight more on the huge open world, the large amount of unique races and classes, and diplomacy.

Amen.  Playing it now, it seems like a game that could have been among the best.  It is the best MMO world hands down and very few debate it.  It is also slightly crude and unresponsive in combat and the quest system is of a time long past.  Really if the population would pick up it would be a successful MMO's with some more refinement.

 

It's funny I still log into EQ and it seems more innovative, unique and in depth than anything else out there by a long shot.  And I'm sure many of the old school MMO's feel that way as gaming companies have "streamlined" things to the point of utter boredom.

  pierth

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1517

6/12/12 11:29:21 PM#22


Originally posted by karmath

Originally posted by GreenHell VG is a relic of a time past and i really don't think F2P will bring in a lot of players. It is just to late. A few years ago before GW2,Rift and TSW I think it would have had a pretty good chance with F2P. Now its just an old kind of dated looking game.  It really is to bad that SOE ignored this game for as long as they did and lets be honest if SWG was still around VG would still be ignored.  I always thought it was crazy the way that SOE has treated this game for the past few years.
I wouldnt call it a relic though, some of its systems are far more 'nextgen' than all of the upcomming mmo's systems. There has yet to be game that comes even remotley close to the awesome crafting system and none of the upcomming games have a non instanced seamless world or player housing.

Like everyone was saying years ago, it will take a heck of alot and a small miracle to turn VG around, but if SOE really wants to, its totally in the realm of being possible. 


I agree. I only recently played VG and while it took me awhile to learn and excel at crafting and diplomacy it really does feel like the true successor to EQ1- the only issues I had was with the size (not quality) of the community and that at my play times no one within my level range cared to group. An influx of players would definitely fix the first issue, have to wait and see regarding the second.

  Quicksand

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 605

6/12/12 11:41:17 PM#23

I'm really eager for the FTP launch of Vanguard. 

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  sonicbrew

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 518

6/12/12 11:49:56 PM#24

One needs to only surf the VG official forums to see just how long this debacle has rode the wave. V:SOH was a pipe dream and it still is. So much potential wasted and its way too late now...

“Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.” ~ Italian proverb

  Legere

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 115

6/12/12 11:50:12 PM#25

if this game is anything like eq2's F2P, then you wont have access to the good loot that drops.. and a few other key things like the broker system.

  Oberholzer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 502

6/12/12 11:56:46 PM#26
Originally posted by Legere

if this game is anything like eq2's F2P, then you wont have access to the good loot that drops.. and a few other key things like the broker system.

Yeah I'm worried it's going to be the same thing. The EQ2 F2P seems very limiting. Obviously they want people to spend money buy stuff but I think it's too restricted.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

6/13/12 12:17:19 AM#27
Originally posted by karmath
Originally posted by GreenHell

VG is a relic of a time past and i really don't think F2P will bring in a lot of players. It is just to late. A few years ago before GW2,Rift and TSW I think it would have had a pretty good chance with F2P. Now its just an old kind of dated looking game.

 It really is to bad that SOE ignored this game for as long as they did and lets be honest if SWG was still around VG would still be ignored.  I always thought it was crazy the way that SOE has treated this game for the past few years.

I wouldnt call it a relic though, some of its systems are far more 'nextgen' than all of the upcomming mmo's systems. There has yet to be game that comes even remotley close to the awesome crafting system and none of the upcomming games have a non instanced seamless world or player housing.

Like everyone was saying years ago, it will take a heck of alot and a small miracle to turn VG around, but if SOE really wants to, its totally in the realm of being possible. 

VG is a relic though. All of the "nextgen" features that it may have were "nextgen" years ago. The genre has moved on and away from what VG has to offer. I'm not saying thats a good thing but its just kind of a fact. If VG offered what people wanted would it really be where it is today?

I'm not bashing VG. In fact I would take calling it a relic as a compliment not an insult. SWG was in that same place. It also had a bunch of features that are not the norm in todays modern MMOs and it was pretty much dead as well. People always seem to want those features but they don't want to play the games that already have those features.

All of those older games..the relics..had something very special about them. Ryzom is another example of a game that offers more than most of the modern mmos out there today and it has died a few times. Yet WoW that offers very few if any of those features that the relics did continues to dominate. Just a sign of the times.

 

  pierth

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1517

6/13/12 12:37:04 AM#28


Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by karmath

Originally posted by GreenHell VG is a relic of a time past and i really don't think F2P will bring in a lot of players. It is just to late. A few years ago before GW2,Rift and TSW I think it would have had a pretty good chance with F2P. Now its just an old kind of dated looking game.  It really is to bad that SOE ignored this game for as long as they did and lets be honest if SWG was still around VG would still be ignored.  I always thought it was crazy the way that SOE has treated this game for the past few years.
I wouldnt call it a relic though, some of its systems are far more 'nextgen' than all of the upcomming mmo's systems. There has yet to be game that comes even remotley close to the awesome crafting system and none of the upcomming games have a non instanced seamless world or player housing. Like everyone was saying years ago, it will take a heck of alot and a small miracle to turn VG around, but if SOE really wants to, its totally in the realm of being possible. 
VG is a relic though. All of the "nextgen" features that it may have were "nextgen" years ago. The genre has moved on and away from what VG has to offer. I'm not saying thats a good thing but its just kind of a fact. If VG offered what people wanted would it really be where it is today?

I'm not bashing VG. In fact I would take calling it a relic as a compliment not an insult. SWG was in that same place. It also had a bunch of features that are not the norm in todays modern MMOs and it was pretty much dead as well. People always seem to want those features but they don't want to play the games that already have those features.

All of those older games..the relics..had something very special about them. Ryzom is another example of a game that offers more than most of the modern mmos out there today and it has died a few times. Yet WoW that offers very few if any of those features that the relics did continues to dominate. Just a sign of the times.


It does seem that the genre has moved on but the desires of the players may not have. It's very easy to say that the majority of players prefer a certain style of game when there are little to no quality alternatives. I think this could be a chance for gamers that are tired of barebones themeparks to try something different that isn't a jarring change from what they are used to. GW2 seems to be a great game for those that are true PvP aficionados, it and Tera seem good alternatives for those that prefer twitchy, action-oriented combat, and TSW seems great for those that are just sick to death of the fantasy genre but none of those games offer a classic MMO "virtual world" feel- if absolutely nothing else perhaps it will give those that cry endlessly for that on these forums a home.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

6/13/12 12:49:50 AM#29

It does seem that the genre has moved on but the desires of the players may not have. It's very easy to say that the majority of players prefer a certain style of game when there are little to no quality alternatives. I think this could be a chance for gamers that are tired of barebones themeparks to try something different that isn't a jarring change from what they are used to. GW2 seems to be a great game for those that are true PvP aficionados, it and Tera seem good alternatives for those that prefer twitchy, action-oriented combat, and TSW seems great for those that are just sick to death of the fantasy genre but none of those games offer a classic MMO "virtual world" feel- if absolutely nothing else perhaps it will give those that cry endlessly for that on these forums a home.

It's not like VG is a new game just hitting the scene. It has been here for years and no one cares. No one will care when its F2P. If the people bitching on these forums for something different really wanted something different why havent they been playing VG? Why didn't they play Ryzom or SWG? There is always an excuse and that is why these games stay dead.

Who the hell knows what people want? Maybe just an excuse to bitch. Maybe some kind of Utopia game that has everything and will never be made. I can promise you though they dont want VG because it has been here the whole time and no one cared.

  kevjards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 1451

6/13/12 12:53:47 AM#30
Originally posted by OberanMiM
Originally posted by teakbois
Originally posted by darker70

Well well after leaveing Vanguard and it's loyal band of followers in the desert for over a year SOE are going to finally cash up sad thing is that trailer shows nothing of the real heart of Vanguard, and where is the crafting still up there with the best like old SWG,will be interesting to see what my guild thinks but this seems to be a play for the WOW crowd but sadly F2P is the only way to save the game it seems.

The Vanguard players are the ones that left SoE in the dust first.  Its amazing how people love to twist things around.  SoE spent almost two years bug fixing and developing content for VG, taking a loss because people made them believe that they would come back.  They never did so SoE decided to stop losing money.

 

And the crafting was nowhere near as great as SWG.  its a step above EQ2 but a long leap down from SWG.

 

Umm no it wasn't. I was one of those players who kept my account open for over a year after SOE basically said "We're not fixing your pvp bugs and will only touch pvp after pve is fixed". As everyone knows pve is never fully fixed so SOE basically killed the Sartok server overnight. I kept my account active even when 30 people total on the server at a time was the norm.

 

I'm sorry we did not abandon Vanguard. SOE did.  That and they were VERY slow to fix gamebreaking bugs even when reported countless times over months.. SOE said when DCOU was released that they will update the content as thats what the players are paying for, the cynic in me just couldn't help to laugh at the doubletalk.

 

Its nice they are finally touching it, they have done some but have yet to prove themselves but enough to keep me playing in the meantime (sad they ruined pvp though)

i think a certain point has been missed here and that is that the game was released in such a bad state by sigil.they wanted to pay off there debts i beleive and that cost the game big time..yes sony spent 2 yrs updating bugs..fact of the matter is that the game should never have been released in that state anyways..soe did screw over the pvp side without doubt.but in there defence .why would you keep throwing money at a preoject that was dying.i played vanguard for 2 yrs and by far its the best game i ever played.i do not blame sony for what went down..i blame sigil for the mess..oh not to mention our friend brad.

Still,great to see they are trying to do something with the game..but this should have been done a lot sooner than it has been..saying that though i am looking forward to popping back.

  pierth

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1517

6/13/12 1:02:05 AM#31


Originally posted by GreenHell
It's not like VG is a new game just hitting the scene. It has been here for years and no one cares. No one will care when its F2P. If the people bitching on these forums for something different really wanted something different why havent they been playing VG? Why didn't they play Ryzom or SWG? There is always an excuse and that is why these games stay dead.

Who the hell knows what people want? Maybe just an excuse to bitch. Maybe some kind of Utopia game that has everything and will never be made. I can promise you though they dont want VG because it has been here the whole time and no one cared.


I never claimed VG was new- what I'm saying is that MMO gamers are notoriously fickle and a bad release is often a death sentence to the reputation of a game. Hell, there are people that bitch about games that are just fine here but with all the bitching and white knighting apparently there is a sizable amount of forum-dwellers that care about what other people's opinions are about a game and may be swayed by those opinions.

I'll add that with the growing quality of F2P/freemium MMORPGs that players like myself see no reason at all to play one that requires a subscription just for access. You can say no one will care when it goes F2P, but I guarantee you that the player population will grow and stay above current levels when the game goes F2P.

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

6/13/12 1:21:11 AM#32
Originally posted by pierth

 


Originally posted by GreenHell
It's not like VG is a new game just hitting the scene. It has been here for years and no one cares. No one will care when its F2P. If the people bitching on these forums for something different really wanted something different why havent they been playing VG? Why didn't they play Ryzom or SWG? There is always an excuse and that is why these games stay dead.

 

Who the hell knows what people want? Maybe just an excuse to bitch. Maybe some kind of Utopia game that has everything and will never be made. I can promise you though they dont want VG because it has been here the whole time and no one cared.


 

I never claimed VG was new- what I'm saying is that MMO gamers are notoriously fickle and a bad release is often a death sentence to the reputation of a game. Hell, there are people that bitch about games that are just fine here but with all the bitching and white knighting apparently there is a sizable amount of forum-dwellers that care about what other people's opinions are about a game and may be swayed by those opinions.

I'll add that with the growing quality of F2P/freemium MMORPGs that players like myself see no reason at all to play one that requires a subscription just for access. You can say no one will care when it goes F2P, but I guarantee you that the player population will grow and stay above current levels when the game goes F2P.

I hope you are right. Really i do. If we are going to do predictions though I will give you mine. A slight boost for a month or two and then back in to obscurity.

  pierth

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1517

6/13/12 1:30:05 AM#33


Originally posted by GreenHell
I hope you are right. Really i do. If we are going to do predictions though I will give you mine. A slight boost for a month or two and then back in to obscurity.

Have any sub games that went F2P/freemium ever had a sustained population drop after the conversion?


I think the longevity of the game will really be determined by the price and quality within the F2P plan, or (as it will likely be called by those that hate every F2P plan ever) the unlimited trial.

  CyclopsSlayer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 532

6/13/12 1:43:18 AM#34
Originally posted by pierth

 


Originally posted by GreenHell
I hope you are right. Really i do. If we are going to do predictions though I will give you mine. A slight boost for a month or two and then back in to obscurity.

 

Have any sub games that went F2P/freemium ever had a sustained population drop after the conversion?


I think the longevity of the game will really be determined by the price and quality within the F2P plan, or (as it will likely be called by those that hate every F2P plan ever) the unlimited trial.

You have to notice that SoE doesn't really do F2P, they do Freemium.  F2P, as EQ1&2 do it is limited character money, limited races, limited classes, limited character slots, limited bank space, no auction hall access, UNLESS you pay!

EQ2 - http://www.everquest2.com/free

EQ1 -  http://www.everquest.com/free

 

  bestman22

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/06
Posts: 88

6/13/12 1:50:12 AM#35

epic crafting??? what in the world are you smoking... 3000000 clicks to make 1 single item.... oops ran out of points and only a grade c item.

 

Sorry I like crafting but having to click not just once but multiple times thorugh the same step to click multiple times through next step etc etc is not my idea of epic crafting, unless surviving making an item without getting carpal tunnel appeals to you....

Hell the trailer ran like a minute... if they showed the crafting system it would have taken entire trailers time by the time they fix all the errors refold it over and over just to get a good item made. (i made it to a level 27 bowyer and said bump this... not worth it.)

I dont mind a few clicks but SWG is epic crafting, not this click fest of a system (eq2 is better than vanguard in that respect... though not by much).

 

Honestly though as to the trailer, I remember the game looking much much better... the world itself was always awesome looking but the chars and combat animations look like they were done on a low end computer.... if thats top end of the graphics then yeah its fairly dated now but again I have not played in over 2 years... might have to pick up my disciple again once f2p.

  pierth

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1517

6/13/12 2:00:24 AM#36


Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

Originally posted by pierth  

Originally posted by GreenHell I hope you are right. Really i do. If we are going to do predictions though I will give you mine. A slight boost for a month or two and then back in to obscurity.
  Have any sub games that went F2P/freemium ever had a sustained population drop after the conversion? I think the longevity of the game will really be determined by the price and quality within the F2P plan, or (as it will likely be called by those that hate every F2P plan ever) the unlimited trial.
You have to notice that SoE doesn't really do F2P, they do Freemium.  F2P, as EQ1&2 do it is limited character money, limited races, limited classes, limited character slots, limited bank space, no auction hall access, UNLESS you pay!

EQ2 - http://www.everquest2.com/free

EQ1 -  http://www.everquest.com/free


I've always held the notion that F2P means you are allowed access to the servers without paying for that access. I've never personally seen any indication that F2P offers anything else. The arguments regarding what is and isn't free to play is often just an argument of semantics and varying degrees of common sense. No business I know of gives away every aspect and minute detail of their game for no cost whatsoever- players that desire that need to go to emulated servers where profit is not the goal.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3618

6/13/12 2:07:47 AM#37

        F2P can only help Vanguard.....The community needs an infusion of players and that should really help.... After the infusion though it is up to SOE to keep it going...People arent going to invest in a game if they think SOE may pull the plug on it at some point.

  aspekx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2197

6/13/12 2:18:50 AM#38
Originally posted by pierth

 


Originally posted by CyclopsSlay

Originally posted by pierth  

Originally posted by GreenHell I hope you are right. Really i do. If we are going to do predictions though I will give you mine. A slight boost for a month or two and then back in to obscurity.
  Have any sub games that went F2P/freemium ever had a sustained population drop after the conversion? I think the longevity of the game will really be determined by the price and quality within the F2P plan, or (as it will likely be called by those that hate every F2P plan ever) the unlimited trial.
You have to notice that SoE doesn't really do F2P, they do Freemium.  F2P, as EQ1&2 do it is limited character money, limited races, limited classes, limited character slots, limited bank space, no auction hall access, UNLESS you pay!

 

EQ2 - http://www.everquest2.com/free

EQ1 -  http://www.everquest.com/free


 

I've always held the notion that F2P means you are allowed access to the servers without paying for that access. I've never personally seen any indication that F2P offers anything else. The arguments regarding what is and isn't free to play is often just an argument of semantics and varying degrees of common sense. No business I know of gives away every aspect and minute detail of their game for no cost whatsoever- players that desire that need to go to emulated servers where profit is not the goal.

well, there is Aion.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  pierth

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1517

6/13/12 2:23:27 AM#39


Originally posted by chelan
well, there is Aion.

Can you commonly acquire every item within their cash shop without ever accessing the cash shop? I've never played Aion.

  CyclopsSlayer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 532

6/13/12 2:43:48 AM#40
Originally posted by pierth

 


Originally posted by chelan
well, there is Aion.

 

Can you commonly acquire every item within their cash shop without ever accessing the cash shop? I've never played Aion.

Similar, or work alike items yes.

 

Run a quest to get experience amulets for your lowbies, or hit up the shop.

Maybe you can't get the same skinned pet, but a Pack pet, Alert pet, work this faction, do that quest, hit up a give-away, or spend cash in the shop.

Weapon and armor appearance skins, run a fairly difficult quest, or have bought one of the early CUBE's.

etc...

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