Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Rofl? Has it ever crossed your mind that some people don't "gank" each other in real life because they feel it is ethically wrong to do regardless of whether or not they can get away with it? 

Like, what, .001% of the population?

Most people aren't nice. Law keeps them in check. MMORPG's prove that. Open up any sandbox MMO and see how many nice people in there. Read the various stories of EVE betrayals. And don't give me "we're roleplaying bad guys", you're not, you're just a fucking griefer.

Originally posted by Irus

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Rofl? Has it ever crossed your mind that some people don't "gank" each other in real life because they feel it is ethically wrong to do regardless of whether or not they can get away with it? 

Like, what, .001% of the population?

Most people aren't nice. Law keeps them in check. MMORPG's prove that. Open up any sandbox MMO and see how many nice people in there. Read the various stories of EVE betrayals. And don't give me "we're roleplaying bad guys", you're not, you're just a fucking griefer.

That's a pretty cynical view of your fellow human beings.

It's not really true either, most people are actually very nice, kind, friendly, well adjusted people who wouldn't have the capacity to kill another person.

Don't confuse the ~20% of the population who are sociopathic/psychopathic with the other ~80% who aren't.

Originally posted by AticusWelles

That's a pretty cynical view of your fellow human beings.

It's not really true either, most people are actually very nice, kind, friendly, well adjusted people who wouldn't have the capacity to kill another person.

Don't confuse the ~20% of the population who are sociopathic/psychopathic with the other ~80% who aren't.

I don't see what's being nice, friendly, or especially well-adjusted has to do with being a good person.

If your definition of a good person is one who's not actively killing someone, who's being polite, etc., then, yes, most people will look nice to you.

If 99% of players in a video game are not trustworthy, and the 1% is your personal friends, that tells you something about the human race.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Corthala

Player A:" Did you just killed the Evil Thingy?"

Player B:" Yeas!"

Player A :" Ok, I will Wait for it to pop and then I kill it and I will Save all the Lands"

Player B:" I just Done that"

 

 

 

 

 

If this kind of thing realy bothers you, rpgs aren't for you.

 

You do know that not all RPGs are MMORPGs?

Really sherlock?  Really? I have only been around rpgs since 1974. I will defer to your "obvious genius".

 

Yet, your  comment "If this kind of things really bothers you, RPGs aren't for you" makes sense if you refer current MMORPGs but not if you refer to RPGs as a genre. There are plenty of RPGs where the situation described with Player A & B is avoided. 

*If you are a grammar Nazy don't read*

Btw, I played so many rpg that in the most of them resolves around a guy(usuallly from zero to hero) that becomes the savior/chosen One. There are exception and some good ones, like Planescape:Torment. But when it comes to story in mmorpg, almost all recent ones, resolves around The player as the Chosen One but for me is hard to fell total immersion in mmo story because there's always some guy waiting for a pop or "World First" player.

I played AO for years and I was a social player because there was no epic quest/story and I had no reason to fell like the ONE, but After AO I played several MMO and it seems there the more the mmorpg focus on story the more Solo game it becomes(you can Level from 1-50 in swtor without the need to team). The story may seem a good thing but it kills MM of MMORPG.

Originally posted by Corthala

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Corthala

Player A:" Did you just killed the Evil Thingy?"

Player B:" Yeas!"

Player A :" Ok, I will Wait for it to pop and then I kill it and I will Save all the Lands"

Player B:" I just Done that"

 

 

 

 

 

If this kind of thing realy bothers you, rpgs aren't for you.

 

You do know that not all RPGs are MMORPGs?

Really sherlock?  Really? I have only been around rpgs since 1974. I will defer to your "obvious genius".

 

Yet, your  comment "If this kind of things really bothers you, RPGs aren't for you" makes sense if you refer current MMORPGs but not if you refer to RPGs as a genre. There are plenty of RPGs where the situation described with Player A & B is avoided. 

*If you are a grammar Nazy don't read*

 

Btw, I played so many rpg that in the most of them resolves around a guy(usuallly from zero to hero) that becomes the savior/chosen One. There are exception and some good ones, like Planescape:Torment. But when it comes to story in mmorpg, almost all recent ones, resolves around The player as the Chosen One but for me is hard to fell total immersion in mmo story because there's always some guy waiting for a pop or "World First" player.

 

I played AO for years and I was a social player because there was no epic quest/story and I had no reason to fell like the ONE, but After AO I played several MMO and it seems there the more the mmorpg focus on story the more Solo game it becomes(you can Level from 1-50 in swtor without the need to team). The story may seem a good thing but it kills MM of MMORPG.

 

 

Bet you loved in in TSW where that NPC specifically tells you that  "you are not the chosen one" and that theres "many just like you"

Found that to be a great thing.

Cant stand it when im the damn chosen one to save the world...or ...the one the prophicies tell of...ect...its like great...me and every damn player is the chosen one....the whole world is flooded with damn chosen ones...in fact theres more chosen ones in this world than there are people who are just normal people...

I loved it.

Story is defined as, “A usually fictional prose or verse narrative intended to interest or amuse the hearer or reader [notice it doesn't mention "player"].” The key word used in this definition is narrative, which is defined as, “Consisting of or characterized by the telling of a story.” The point here is that story is narrative, or narration, being that a story in of itself involves no interactivity in its experience. You, the reader or the participator are a passive participant, and therefore do not have any influence in the events that you are reading, seeing, or are otherwise witnessing. This is typical of film and literature, but has no place in an MMO(RPG). In fact they contradict each other heavily.

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Cant stand it when im the damn chosen one to save the world...or ...the one the prophicies tell of...ect...its like great...me and every damn player is the chosen one....the whole world is flooded with damn chosen ones...in fact theres more chosen ones in this world than there are people who are just normal people...

Hmm ... we *are* normal people.

The point of a video GAME is to create the illusion that you are special. It is not very fun to play a normal blacksmith and make mediocre steel swords all day.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Cant stand it when im the damn chosen one to save the world...or ...the one the prophicies tell of...ect...its like great...me and every damn player is the chosen one....the whole world is flooded with damn chosen ones...in fact theres more chosen ones in this world than there are people who are just normal people...

Hmm ... we *are* normal people.

The point of a video GAME is to create the illusion that you are special. It is not very fun to play a normal blacksmith and make mediocre steel swords all day.

I find it's very satisfied when I know that the guild I supply my steel swords to managed to kill all the bandit grifters who keep killing low level players from the area.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Crunchy221

Cant stand it when im the damn chosen one to save the world...or ...the one the prophicies tell of...ect...its like great...me and every damn player is the chosen one....the whole world is flooded with damn chosen ones...in fact theres more chosen ones in this world than there are people who are just normal people...

Hmm ... we *are* normal people.

The point of a video GAME is to create the illusion that you are special. It is not very fun to play a normal blacksmith and make mediocre steel swords all day.

Well for some people it is. When it comes to paying for MMORPGs, luckily they are a small minority, and their views are pushed to the side in AAA titles. Niche audiences like these are best served by indy companies.

As far as OP....I prefer story in my games. The more it engages me, the more apt I am to enjoy myself. 

Originally posted by maplestone

Ideally, what you want in an MMO world is "news", not "story".

Perfect... I want the devs to give me the material to make "news" , not give me a prescripted "story" and tell me to go relive it with 1 million others..  I want my characters to make their own bio, not become one that is already written for me in advance..

Originally posted by Royalkin

Story is False.

 

Specifically story is not role-playing, nor is it the mechanical aspect of placing points into attributes. Not to say that story is (or should be) absent from role-playing, but it is not (nor should be) the all-encompassing element that modern game designers seem to think it is. Role-Playing encompasses the acts and decisions that the player takes in order to make their character their own –the constructing their characters into a unique manifestation of their will. Role-playing a character in an RPG is no different from the processes we all went through as children playing with action figures. We created personas and personalities, histories and previous adventures which defined those characters’ natures. We invented adventures on the fly for them to participate in, with specific outcomes. Completing a static set of quests towards fufillment of a narrative, is not role-playing, it's a book piecemeal.

 

Story is defined as, “A usually fictional prose or verse narrative intended to interest or amuse the hearer or reader [notice it doesn't mention "player"].” The key word used in this definition is narrative, which is defined as, “Consisting of or characterized by the telling of a story.” The point here is that story is narrative, or narration, being that a story in of itself involves no interactivity in its experience. You, the reader or the participator are a passive participant, and therefore do not have any influence in the events that you are reading, seeing, or are otherwise witnessing. This is typical of film and literature, but has no place in an MMO(RPG). In fact they contradict each other heavily.

Yeah, pretty much agree on that one.

Originally posted by Irus

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Rofl? Has it ever crossed your mind that some people don't "gank" each other in real life because they feel it is ethically wrong to do regardless of whether or not they can get away with it? 

Like, what, .001% of the population?

Most people aren't nice. Law keeps them in check. MMORPG's prove that. Open up any sandbox MMO and see how many nice people in there. Read the various stories of EVE betrayals. And don't give me "we're roleplaying bad guys", you're not, you're just a fucking griefer.

Bwalolololol.  Laws keep them in check??  "Laws" don't actually exist, they are a social construct.  A real world "law" is not comparable to an artificial game engine constraint that simply makes it impossible to do something.   

someone mentioned early on that when you are developing a game, the contents that you create are made to be experienced by everyone, not just a select few. So having a story that changes over time, will infact be a bad developer decision.

That is why GW2's Dynamic events repeats, and the same with Rift's Rifts and weekly events that has to be weekly or monthly  to allow all the players a chance to experience it.

But My main question is, is this a deal breaker, having an Event that only lasts a week or two week and thats it. Meaning all those that comes in afterwards or those that are busy, out on business trip will never experience.

For example: A war between factions, this event is a battle to take over a city, Faction A event is to push the NPC away from the city and hold the castle from constant onslaugh from Faction B and C, once the city is held and the event is over. New NPC, quests, dungeons are opened. If faction B and C managed to overthrew Faction A, they get a major bonus buff for a week.

If you weren't in that battle, you will not experience it again. sure another battle can happen again but its another village, different rules, different situations different layouts and different objectives.  Will you feel left out and not in sync with the gaming world??

Or will this be alright with you as a gamer?

Originally posted by Lucioon

someone mentioned early on that when you are developing a game, the contents that you create are made to be experienced by everyone, not just a select few. So having a story that changes over time, will infact be a bad developer decision.

That is why GW2's Dynamic events repeats, and the same with Rift's Rifts and weekly events that has to be weekly or monthly  to allow all the players a chance to experience it.

But My main question is, is this a deal breaker, having an Event that only lasts a week or two week and thats it. Meaning all those that comes in afterwards or those that are busy, out on business trip will never experience.

For example: A war between factions, this event is a battle to take over a city, Faction A event is to push the NPC away from the city and hold the castle from constant onslaugh from Faction B and C, once the city is held and the event is over. New NPC, quests, dungeons are opened. If faction B and C managed to overthrew Faction A, they get a major bonus buff for a week.

If you weren't in that battle, you will not experience it again. sure another battle can happen again but its another village, different rules, different situations different layouts and different objectives.  Will you feel left out and not in sync with the gaming world??

Or will this be alright with you as a gamer?

I would be perfectly fine with it but I suspect a ton would not.  They wouldn't want to miss out on some content.  From my point of view, having temporary or transitional content would be a way to keep some customers around as they don't want to miss out on a chance at it.

To a larger extent, look at swg vs wow.  On wow, each server is the same.  On swg, no two servers were the same.  People built small communities.  I think that should be something companies should think about.  Not the housing part, but how servers can be different based on players actions or lack thereof.

Story in MMORPGs kind of reminds me of playing D&D 2nd edition back in the day.  Often a GM would come up with this great campaign but the players wouldn't really want to do what the DM wants.  They have the freedom of choice to take up a quest or ignore it and go do something else.  A bad DM would try to force the players into the campaign while a good DM would adapt things on the fly for what the players actually wanted to do.  The problem with these themepark mmorpgs is that they are bad DMs.  Their is one story and nothing you will do will change it.  You have no real freedom and making snarky comments on a dialogue wheel does not = choice.   

A well made sandbox mmorpg is a good DM.  They will let players make their own story and give them the tools for it.  I've only ever played one well made sandbox and that is EVE.  The world is beautiful and the freedom is pretty extensive.  Often we see articles about the happenings in the EVE universe and even non EVE players enjoy reading them. 

Originally posted by BigHatLogan

Story in MMORPGs kind of reminds me of playing D&D 2nd edition back in the day.  Often a GM would come up with this great campaign but the players wouldn't really want to do what the DM wants.  They have the freedom of choice to take up a quest or ignore it and go do something else.  A bad DM would try to force the players into the campaign while a good DM would adapt things on the fly for what the players actually wanted to do.  The problem with these themepark mmorpgs is that they are bad DMs.  Their is one story and nothing you will do will change it.  You have no real freedom and making snarky comments on a dialogue wheel does not = choice.   

A well made sandbox mmorpg is a good DM.  They will let players make their own story and give them the tools for it.  I've only ever played one well made sandbox and that is EVE.  The world is beautiful and the freedom is pretty extensive.  Often we see articles about the happenings in the EVE universe and even non EVE players enjoy reading them. 

the danger of having no story corresponds to the amount of small guilds and solo players that currently makes up the MMORPG player base.

When you have a large guild, with multiple players willing to create and make content for their guild, you are neglecting the smaller guilds and solo players. A good DM ( Developer) should be making content that can be tackled by Guilds and solo players together without forced grouping.  a good example would be the Dynamic events in GW2.

Putting those mechanics with a transitional event would make the servers different, yet allow players to do what they want. They can decide if they wanted to contribute to their server and move the story along, or do what they want without ever touching the main arching story that has multiple threads.

That I believe should be the future of story telling in an MMO, where different servers are actually different not just in name but in progress. And each progress is different due to various results that could happen.

But again, this goes back to the whole, creating contents only a few sees and experiences. Where is the line ?

does everyone have to be given the ability to experience every possible outcome??? , because if thats the case, then there can be only one outcome and story telling in MMO can only be stagant and can never move forward.