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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Do you think Anet will "dumb down" GW2 much due to QQ?

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44 posts found
  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1400

6/12/12 1:42:35 AM#21

I think dumbing down the first 10 levels isnt a bad thing but after that it should get progressively harder. For example my wife whom doesnt play the action mmo's and is just used to standing still needed to learn how to fight in melee and use the dodge button. First beta event she was frustrated and didnt hardly play. This event since it was toned down a bit she was able to learn to be predictive and had a much better time. Challange is great but IMO the first 10 or so levels (since there is 80) can easily be a great time to fine tune and ramp up as you progress towards the real game. Some of you guys need to keep in mind that a lot of us are vets and can easily adapt to challanges. If you are newer to games though it can be a bit more of a challange to learn the ropes and it can be a turn off to a player if they just die constantly.

  Kawota

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/10
Posts: 16

6/12/12 1:45:13 AM#22

I already want them to make some increased diffculty servers, or the game will eventually become too easy for me.

No, seriously. The most fun DE from my perspective was when were escorting that asuran scientist with little moas. I was level 9, most other players were below lv 10 too, and we were constantly attacked by level 12 enemies. We were almost completely wiped a couple of times, but I constantly maneuvered and went down only once and managed to heal myself then revive other players. In the end, we managed to do it.

That's when I really enjoyed the difficulty and danger.

  seridan

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/12
Posts: 1212

6/12/12 1:51:41 AM#23

I don't think they will "dumb down" GW2. They might release "Hard Mode" later for a harder experience....

Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums

  Nailzzz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/04/08
Posts: 506

6/12/12 1:51:47 AM#24

     So far my biggest and only complaint is the trait tiering changes. The skill tier changes are annoying but whatever. Im not going to pretend that i wont be getting every skill evenutally anyway. The trait changes however have been devastating to a lot of the customization players had in BWE1 and those changes will continue to affect players all the way to max level. It just didnt feel as fun.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

6/12/12 2:04:44 AM#25
Originally posted by cronius77

Some of you guys need to keep in mind that a lot of us are vets and can easily adapt to challanges. If you are newer to games though it can be a bit more of a challange to learn the ropes and it can be a turn off to a player if they just die constantly.

Then why doesn't that annyoing paperclip pop up and say "I see you're dying a lot, want advice on how to not suck?".

People tend to be less ragequitty when they realise it's human error.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/12/12 2:11:21 AM#26

The term dumbing down describes the deliberate diminishment of the intellectual level of the content of literature, schooling and education, news, and other aspects of culture.

I fail to see how this term is relevant here. GW2 is already designed for mass consumption and they have said it clearly they want to reach out console and non mmo players. So they have to make their game easier and more accessible to ease people in to their game who have never played an MMO before. I doubt these people know what cookie cutter MMO really means.

Sorry OP but i think your post is contradictory in nature.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2838

6/12/12 2:27:42 AM#27

Translation of player lingo:

Broken overpowered crap: Stuff I haven't done.

Hard stuff: Stuff I've just finished.

Dumbed down stuff: Stuff I've finished yesterday and now other people are doing it as well.

 

PvE is designed to be beaten by players.

Once you beat something (unless it is based on some random generated number) you can beat it again since the Ai is static.

Additionally the game is designed for the average human, so unless one is rather dumb or has some severe motor handicaps, they will eventually beat it as well.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

6/12/12 2:58:09 AM#28

Like every single AAA MMO since EQ, yes, I'm pretty sadly sure that GW2 will get dumbed over time too.

Because lazy people are not lazy at on thing : being vocal. I think it's time for challenge demanding people like us to be vocal too, and unnecessarly spam the forums of every new MMO we chosed to play with complaints about games being too easy.

Move the trend backwards, in some way.

Start the movement now, while it's not too late (beta). As I read on the official forums, they already started to dumb down stuff (quests, mechanics, etc).

edit : the real danger with dumbing down lower level content is that it could make sidekicking completely boring.

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/12/12 3:01:31 AM#29
Originally posted by k-damage

Like every single AAA MMO since EQ, yes, I'm pretty sadly sure that GW2 will get dumbed over time too.

Because lazy people are not lazy at on thing : being vocal. I think it's time for challenge demanding people like us to be vocal too, and unnecessarly spam the forums of every new MMO we chosed to play with complaints about games being too easy.

Move the trend backwards, in some way.

 

edit : the real danger with dumbing down lower level content is that it could make sidekicking completely boring.

Game is trying to appeal to as many players as possible including console crowd and those who never played an MMO before. When you go for mass consumption you have to make things easier so that it is more accessible with masses.

or you are under the impression that GW2 was designed to be a niche game?

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4543

6/12/12 3:06:13 AM#30

Well i dont think they could dumb it down any mroe really..  i mean people can press a button and be instant max lvl for pvp..

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  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

6/12/12 3:15:20 AM#31
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by k-damage

Like every single AAA MMO since EQ, yes, I'm pretty sadly sure that GW2 will get dumbed over time too.

Because lazy people are not lazy at on thing : being vocal. I think it's time for challenge demanding people like us to be vocal too, and unnecessarly spam the forums of every new MMO we chosed to play with complaints about games being too easy.

Move the trend backwards, in some way.

 

edit : the real danger with dumbing down lower level content is that it could make sidekicking completely boring.

Game is trying to appeal to as many players as possible including console crowd and those who never played an MMO before. When you go for mass consumption you have to make things easier so that it is more accessible with masses.

or you are under the impression that GW2 was designed to be a niche game?

Actually a niche game would be a super hard, AND very new style of game :-) (like, for instance, a Diablo3-Inferno-only difficulty game with completely neverseen core gameplay elements)

But MMOs are the most popular genre by itself, so it will never be niche as long as it does implement well known concepts.

Plus, being "at least more challenging than a walk in the park" doesn't make a game targetted at a niche, it just makes it targetted to everyone, including challenger demanders ;-)

I'll add that dumbing down is the cheapest, laziest way to appeal to broader audiences. There are tons of different possible gamedesigns to appeal to several audiences while not using the "make it stupidly easy" route. While dividing enemies HP by a half only takes a few automated scripts.

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/12/12 3:24:18 AM#32
Originally posted by k-damage
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by k-damage

Like every single AAA MMO since EQ, yes, I'm pretty sadly sure that GW2 will get dumbed over time too.

Because lazy people are not lazy at on thing : being vocal. I think it's time for challenge demanding people like us to be vocal too, and unnecessarly spam the forums of every new MMO we chosed to play with complaints about games being too easy.

Move the trend backwards, in some way.

 

edit : the real danger with dumbing down lower level content is that it could make sidekicking completely boring.

Game is trying to appeal to as many players as possible including console crowd and those who never played an MMO before. When you go for mass consumption you have to make things easier so that it is more accessible with masses.

or you are under the impression that GW2 was designed to be a niche game?

Actually a niche game would be a super hard, AND very new style of game :-) (like, for instance, a Diablo3-Inferno-only difficulty game with completely neverseen core gameplay elements)

But MMOs are the most popular genre by itself, so it will never be niche as long as it does implement well known concepts.

Plus, being "at least more challenging than a walk in the park" doesn't make a game targetted at a niche, it just makes it targetted to everyone, including challenger demanders ;-)

I'll add that dumbing down is the cheapest, laziest way to appeal to broader audiences. There are tons of different possible gamedesigns to appeal to several audiences while not using the "make it stupidly easy" route. While dividing enemies HP by a half only takes a few automated scripts.

In order for MMO to reach out wider auience it has to be easy and accessible. SWTOR is your typical MMO and yet i remember how many players who never played an MMO before were so confused. GW2 will also attract a lot of non MMO players, and though GW2 doesn't follow the typical MMO formula it still needs to draw all these players in and not intimidate them by a genre they have no knowledge of. How can you dumb down something which was tailor made to reach as many players as possible and get rich?

I will just quote this from O'Brien which clearly show what they are aiming for.

“We’re in it to win it this time,” said O’Brien. “We were number two to World of Warcraft with Guild Wars, now we want to beat them. We’ll be satisfied when the Guild Wars 2 is the most successful MMO. I think we have something unique here and players are going to see it and understand why dynamic events are a way better content model than people have experienced before in online worlds. Word-of-mouth will get people to understand that we really are doing something new and different. The sky’s the limit once this game is out. Online worlds have a networking effect. People will bring friends to Guild Wars 2. We hope all the people who play the beta weekend will tell their friends about it.”

That is why i don't believe in 'dumbing down' arguments regarding GW2. You can not beat WOW in sales and numbers by making your MMO less accessible.

  Zzad

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/11
Posts: 1347

6/12/12 3:28:46 AM#33

I expected a challenge from Arenanet.... that is why i like them!

I HOPE THEY DO NOT DUMB IT DOWN

  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

6/12/12 3:30:01 AM#34
Originally posted by Sameer1979

In order for MMO to reach out wider auience it has to be easy and accessible. 

Like I said, using the make-it-easy route is not the only way to appeal to broader audiences. It's the easiest and cheapest one (in term of costs), for sure, but it's clearly not the only way.

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  Sameer1979

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 385

6/12/12 3:34:30 AM#35
Originally posted by k-damage
Originally posted by Sameer1979

In order for MMO to reach out wider auience it has to be easy and accessible. 

Like I said, using the make-it-easy route is not the only way to appeal to broader audiences. It's the easiest and cheapest one (in term of costs), for sure, but it's clearly not the only way.

Well what other way is there then? if MMO offers a lot of tutorials, help to new players, make sure that games difficulty isn't too daunting and that players can progress in game without much hassle..it is going to be on easier side just by being more accessible. 

How else do you expect them to keep the game in accordance to your vision and still beat WOW? easier said than done i think.

  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

6/12/12 3:51:55 AM#36
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by k-damage
Originally posted by Sameer1979

In order for MMO to reach out wider auience it has to be easy and accessible. 

Like I said, using the make-it-easy route is not the only way to appeal to broader audiences. It's the easiest and cheapest one (in term of costs), for sure, but it's clearly not the only way.

Well what other way is there then? if MMO offers a lot of tutorials, help to new players, make sure that games difficulty isn't too daunting and that players can progress in game without much hassle..it is going to be on easier side just by being more accessible. 

How else do you expect them to keep the game in accordance to your vision and still beat WOW? easier said than done i think.

First, granted gamedesign is a part of my job so I'm biased, but this is ANet's job to find other ways than dumbing down to make it appealing to wider audiences. There has been a lot of gamedesigns in different MMOs, games, to open a previously niche game to wider targets :

- mini games / crafting / lore / non combat scenarios (for alternative to difficult combat)

And for accessability to difficult combats :

- companions / NPC mercenaries

- temporary buffs (by doing sidequests)

- and the most obvious and cost free to me : grouping with friends.

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  k-damage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 751

6/12/12 3:53:01 AM#37

And like I said before, every single MMO to date has been dumbed down as f*ck at one point in their lifetime, and now it's TERA's turn : 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/353891/page/1

***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****

  Ngeldu5t

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/05
Posts: 611

6/12/12 4:23:41 AM#38

I like the difficulty as it is right now and I hope ArenaNet  keep the Challenge they way it is.

In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals...

  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 740

6/12/12 5:15:37 AM#39

But it's already easy.... Like seriously. Except some tweaking with how healthpools scale on mobs, making the fights just last stupidly long every now and then without really making them more difficult there is nothing that's actually HARD. 

Yes the explorable mode, when you do it first time, with a group of other first timers, with outdated gear, you will die a lot, whole lot. But onc eyou realize how certain mechanics work there it becomes obvious how to proceed. It's just all about paying attention. Any dumbing down would simply make it boring. 

 

I really hope ANet will stick to their guns. GW, even 7 years after release and several changes that made parts of game easier still has plenty of challenging content where you do have to play carefully and know what you are doing. You can't just go in and hope for best rushing through. 

 

Another thing against dumbing the game donw is how the gear works in Guild Wars franchise. At level cap it becomes a hunt from prestige. You want to gain those hard to get armour sets or weapons because they look different. Since you can easily transfer stats using transmutation stones (You get 3 for clearing a zone so it's not liek they are hard to get), you want to have players feel like their fancy gear is actually earned and not given away freely to anyone that just jumps and down for an hour in middle of city. 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 20048

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

6/12/12 5:19:50 AM#40
Originally posted by Xssiv

ArenaNet's business model (b2p) is good because it doesn't make them a slave to sub numbers. 

That being said, I don't see them over-reacting to QQ as much as some other companies might but they may dumb it down to attract new players when the first xpac comes out.

I agree, ANET really has no incentive to make things easier since people aren't paying them a sub.  Sure, I suppose they could make the previous content a bit easier when an expansion comes out so people can blow through it more quickly to get to the new stuff, but otherwise, they got your money at the door and there isn't much you can do it. (Guess people could demand a refund)

It does however give them a great opportunity to offer cash shop items that make things easier for the players, no idea if they'll take that route however.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
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