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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why (most) MMO developers are insane.

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60 posts found
  daelnor

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/16/04
Posts: 1467

6/08/12 11:57:32 AM#41

Warhammer, again, was based more around a DAoC model, than the WoW one. Just because something has quests & gear doesn't make it WoW. WAR was far more PvP centered than WoW ever was. Like AoC, it failed because it was released too soon / unfished. It had a lot of bugs, and a lack of support from EA. Nothing to do w/ WoW.

 

Sorry man....Warhammer's problem was that it DIDN'T base itself around the DAOC model. The only reason it even had keep sieges in it was because (we) beta testers screamed for it before release.  They designed it to be a more restrictive, cheaper version of WoW...which is why it sucked.  You can thank the beta testers for slapping the dev's upside the head and having them get what little bit of DAOC as they did into it.  For some dumb reason they tried their best to NOT use anything from DAOC.

The only cool thing to come out of WAR, unfortunately was the public quest system.  They dropped the ball on everything else.

 

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

6/08/12 12:29:57 PM#42
Originally posted by dotdotdash

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Insanity is quoting that quote and not realizing how stupid it is.

Which is something you are reflecting, in fact, since the dynamics of what happened with these games are far more complex than the hyper-simplistic "they tried to beat WoW -> they failed" train of thought you are carrying here.

LotRO doesn't feel anything like WoW to me. I don't know what happened at launch but that wasn't the issue.

WAR was mostly a PvP game so I really don't know what you're getting at with WAR.

AoC failed because it had a very bad launch and a drastic switch between initial and later levels. It probably would have been successful as hell if they launched and debugged it properly. And wtf does AoC share with WoW?

Rift is probably the more coherent WoW simulator in terms of what it's trying to achieve (but not a direct clone in mechanics). It is not doing badly at all, and is probably going to be the place of transition for most WoW endgamers eventually.

SW:TOR was also a more direct (than RIFT) WoW clone, but even then I'm not convinced that killed it. I'm pretty sure it died because it was just a lousy game with lazy development where it had no content, bad quest management, lied about the leveling experience, and generally tried to mix elements that didn't work well together.

GW2 is so unlike WoW it's not funny.

We know almost nothing about TESO, except that it looks more like a GW2 clone than a WoW clone.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Smart comebck. I don't like WOW clones myself. I prefer sandboxes to themeparks. 

Not all themeparks are WoW clones. Drop that already. In fact, I'm quite certain you don't know what a sandbox actually is and just like FFA PvP games.

  User Deleted
6/08/12 4:07:38 PM#43
Originally posted by Irus
Originally posted by dotdotdash
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Smart comebck. I don't like WOW clones myself. I prefer sandboxes to themeparks. 

Not all themeparks are WoW clones. Drop that already. In fact, I'm quite certain you don't know what a sandbox actually is and just like FFA PvP games.

If you read my posts, you'd see i called GW2 both a themepark and a non wow clone. I also like TSW and TERA, both of which i don't view has wow clones. What do i have to drop?

I do think ffa owpvp with resources, politics, economy, etc is the best model for open world mmos (not talking about loading screens), but it takes both a really mature community and good punishiment systems to make it work. I hate lowbie gankers, for exmple. BTW, i don't hate themepaks at at all, just prefer games with player created/driven worlds, if done right.

But thanks for putting words in my mouth :D

  VPgearchin

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 170

" May blind eyes one day see the Light"

6/08/12 4:11:47 PM#44
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

the so called "wow formula" brings in money, an already established playerbase market and a roundabout way of doing things.

  yewsef

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 343

6/10/12 11:29:35 AM#45
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

See this is all in your head, that everybody is copying WoW.

 

LoTRO for example, is AC3 with LoTR IP on top. follow AC1-3 you can see how it was slowly changing from Sandbox to themepark over time.

 

also keep in mind that the Themepark model, which we tend to call WoW clones now days, was done by Everquest 1, years in advance, which is what the model is based fully on with added perks. WoW is no different in that logic as well.

WoW is the most popular MMO on the market, so people compare everything to it, but seem to forget the parts where they try to be unique in.

WoW is a clone of EQ1 with a few less time sinks. nothing really unique about it.  Post WoW MMO, have many unique concepts. you just over look them.

You again.

How is WoW a clone of EQ?

They both use third person view? (Not)

They both have same itemization? (Not, when everything else uses WoW's itemization)

They both have Auction Houses? (Not, when everything else does)

You can attack ANY NPC on the world on both games? (Not in WoW)

They both have Talent Trees? (Not for EverQuest, Rift, AoC, SWTOR and others all have Talent Tree system of some sort)

They are both Seamless? (EverQuest is not)

Monsters don't quit chasing you? (Not in WoW, yes in EQ)

Faction system? (WoW has a linear, simplified, redundant and without any kind of penalty "reputation" system that plays and feels very different from EQ's faction system)

They both have two factions fighting amongs each other? (Not in EQ while that's true for Rift, Aion, SWTOR, Warhammer..etc)

 

The list is too long for me to even bother, if you wish I can keep going. But maybe I'll write a complete list and post it on a website just to link it to any fool who claims that WoW is an EverQuest "Clone".

So, can you tell me how WoW is an EverQuest clone in your opinion?

 

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

6/10/12 12:29:49 PM#46
Originally posted by GTwander

Tera isn't doing all that well, they assume it's because it's "too different", but don't see how the west reacts to Eastern art styles and aesthetics (poorly).

 

Aion did a lot better, though, with very similar eastern aesthetics.  It was also more of a departure from WoW, than Tera.  I've seen lots of comments that Tera isn't doing well, because its too much like WoW.

 

..and yet the out-of-touch devs and executives behind the next big MMO, just looking at the numbers, will think Tera did badly for the one thing it did differently.  The combat system.  The one thing is did almost indisputably right - and yet, next game?  Stick with tab-targetting, it's been proven more popular and that deviating from it doesn't do well.

 

What most successful devs are seems to just be grossly out-of-touch.  I guess actual gamers are too busy playing games to get jobs making them (or even when they do, they're less likely to be so career focused)

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  yewsef

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/07
Posts: 343

6/10/12 12:37:33 PM#47
Originally posted by GTwander

The main problem is that games that release doing something 'different' still don't do that good, albeit for different reasons.

DDO never did that well, they assume it was because it was "too different", but they fail to attribute it to the claustrophobic nature of the world design.

Tera isn't doing all that well, they assume it's because it's "too different", but don't see how the west reacts to Eastern art styles and aesthetics (poorly).

Mortal Online is doing... how it's doing... and they *know* it's because it;s "too different", but fail to see the mark of 'amateur' all over it that any normal person can see.

 

It's a failure to see the big picture and be stuck in hyperbole. A business degree doesn't make one any kind of analyst, it just makes them a person who was able to afford a 3-4 year degree - nothing more.

Exactly.

MMORPGs now play too similarly to be playable. No one wants to play game they've been playing for 8 years too many times. When a game comes with a complete NEW FOUNDATION but at the same time understand what MMORPGs are all about (flash news folks, it's not about a "story" you force it on the players). MMORPGs are about many things happening in the world which makes you as an individual part of it. If everything is steam-lines, instanced and soloed, you won't feel part of that world.

A few of the MANY game designs concept that have been abandoned which I, ME MYSELF, want.. remembers, this is just a few, not all the list. Which is; bring back down-time (but not as extreme as EverQuest) say 50% of what EverQuest was. Overcoming inconveniences should be part of the game, if everything is convenient then what are you going to look forward too? Classes/People interacting with each others overcoming their inconveniences in the world as a team.

Down time is important and I really miss that. Simple yet strategic (resource management) and tactical (posititioning and knowledge) combat. No instant-traveling but player-skills and abilities improving traveling speed (whether increasing speed, teleporting, summoning, turning you into a spirit...etc) or horses (and make them attainable at level 1 but cost a lot money for a level 1 character; which should make rolling an alt less of a burden). Bring back real trading, the hell with the auction house. Bring back Cloak of Flames, Tunic of Fungi... let most items tradable but hard to get (no instancing, slow spawn time, place holders).

 

These are some of many mechanics what made EverQuest UNIQUE. Don't re-do everquest but for crying out loud bring us something different than Quest Quest Quest, Kill Kill Kill, Solo Slol Solo, Instance-Group... this shit is OLD. Don't you get it? It's been YEARS now, what MORE of a hint do you NEED?!

 

 

  User Deleted
6/10/12 12:39:44 PM#48

EVE says hi :)

  Moaky07

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 2199

MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.

6/10/12 12:56:46 PM#49
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by dotdotdash

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Including trolling.  And misquotes.  Ah, what's the use, he's a one-shot anyway.

HAH

 

I appreciate your knack for cutting thru the BS Ice. Ya know dude, I think you are catching up to Loke n Kyleran as one of my favorite posters on this site.

 

Now let me wipe off my virtual chin.

 

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: I meant no insult to those of the alternative lifestyle.....was just being silly.

Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  bezado

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/21/04
Posts: 1143

*WARNING*
Objects in mirror are closer to Trolls than they appear.

6/10/12 1:03:31 PM#50


Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by dotdotdash Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW. ... Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part. The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part. ... This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
See this is all in your head, that everybody is copying WoW.

 

LoTRO for example, is AC3 with LoTR IP on top. follow AC1-3 you can see how it was slowly changing from Sandbox to themepark over time.

 

also keep in mind that the Themepark model, which we tend to call WoW clones now days, was done by Everquest 1, years in advance, which is what the model is based fully on with added perks. WoW is no different in that logic as well.WoW is the most popular MMO on the market, so people compare everything to it, but seem to forget the parts where they try to be unique in.WoW is a clone of EQ1 with a few less time sinks. nothing really unique about it.  Post WoW MMO, have many unique concepts. you just over look them.


You're crazy, LOTRO was nothing like AC and AC2 was not AC but a remade game using the AC title. Get facts right. You ever played AC to compare LOTRO to it, I think not cause they are a million times apart.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

6/10/12 1:21:09 PM#51
Originally posted by Ashen_X

This is only applicable if you can establish that these various developers actually expected to beat WoW.

Exactly.

Meanwhile many (possibly even most) of those games went on to be profitable.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3732

RIP City of Heroes!

6/10/12 1:29:08 PM#52
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Nilenya

 

It is true that wow was inspired - alot- by EQ1, but then again you had 2 developers on Wow, having come straight from the two most successfull raiding guilds in EQ1, namely Furor, and Tigole - and so ofcourse there would be inspiration abound. But that DOES NOT make EQ1 a themepark mmo.

 

EQ1 in its original form, from 1999 to roughly planes of power, not including the Ldon expansion was a true Sandbox mmo. 

 

Stop namedropping oldschool mmo's if you cannot put them into context correctly. 

Umm you must have never played AC or UO if you think EQ was a sandbox.

Stop namedropping oldschool mmo's if you cannot put them into context correctly.

Wow man saved me a post. Good job not being rude about it. /salute

 

EQ had several sanboxy feeling items, but in no way/shape/form was there any doubt it was a themepark.

It still blows me away when someone tries to claim eq1 as a sandbox.  Worst is when someone claims wow is a sandbox.  What's next?

  User Deleted
6/10/12 4:15:07 PM#53

Syllogism

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1650

6/10/12 5:06:43 PM#54
Originally posted by Disdena
Originally posted by aesperus

LotRO is definitely not a WoW clone. It plays different, it feels different, it's setup / designed different, and it's also a pretty successful MMO. It's goal was never to 'beat WoW'. It was to make a massive game around Tolkein lore, which, surprise surprise. It did.

Rather than being brief, I want to paste an entire email that I sent my friends back in March 2007 while playing in the LotRO beta:

I'm already in the beta, and I gotta say... I will not be surprised in the least if Blizzard actually files a lawsuit for copyright infringement. The game is WoW. It is WoW. It would take less time to list off the differences than to list off the similarities. Everything, everything, is WoW.
 
Cheap autopilot travel between towns that you've already visited.
Quest NPCs have an icon over their head.
Identical quest dialogue window, with selectable quest rewards.
Quest rewards are Bind on Acquire, everything else is Bind on Equip.
Quest reminders on the right side of the screen tell you in small text the name of the quest and your 3/8 Boar Ribs status.
Going into stealth makes you crouch over, go transparent, and makes a "bwooooo" sound.
Many professions, but each character can only choose a few of them.
Trade skills require you to find a more advanced trainer after each interval, and they never fail and always give skill points if not too easy.
New skills are bought at a class trainer every even-numbered level.
Items and skills with cooldown become dimmed and then fade back in in a clockwise-manner.
Your portrait, hp and mp bars are on the top left -- people in your group appear below that, slightly smaller.
Enemy portrait, hp and mp bars are top center, and if the mob is unique then the portrait is encircled in a different color and style.
No experience lost on death, just your equipment loses durability.
Auction house... geez, the auction house...
 
When I say that the auction house is identical, I mean that it would take minutes for an experienced guild, working together, to confidently conclude which game they are in just by looking at the auction house alone.

I haven't gotten far enough into the game (and don't know enough about WoW, honestly) to see what other parallels there are, but what I've seen so far is practically appalling. Whatever innovations they've managed to fit in are way outshined by the blatant plagiarism. To me, this game looks like what you would get you asked somebody to make a WoW-killer, but that person had never played any other video game ever other than WoW.
 
I mean, don't let that dissuade you guys from trying it out if you want to... I suppose that if someone is a big fan of WoW then they will probably like this too. But don't expect much more than you would from a WoW expansion, because that is effectively what this feels like.
 
This probably seems silly given that this is a laundry list things that've become standard MMO UI (and it doesn't help that it's written in my signature overreactive style) but you may not realize that prior to WoW, no MMO had these things, or at most they only had one or two. This beta was shortly after I had ended a long run of FFXI followed by a short stint in vanilla WoW (just before BC). FFXI had zero of the characteristics on this list. EQ had zero. AO had zero. CoH might have had clockwise cooldown buttons, I don't remember... other than that, probably zero.
 
The point I'm trying to make is that everyone would laugh if you called Rift a WoW clone based on the quest icons and the crouching transparent stealth. Those have become standard among most or all MMOs. LotRO ripped them from WoW back when WoW really was the only game doing them. It set the pace for how much copying developers could get away with. For the time it was released—a little more than 2 years after WoW—it was a shameless clone.

 I thought it was strange that so many people kept saying that LoTRO was nothing like WoW.  I remember playing it when it came out and telling the guys I played WoW with not to bother, they're already playing it. 

It's really not suprising so many people don't have a problem being offered game after game that's not really any different from the last one they played when you see people stating that LoTRO is nothing like WoW, when it's actually one of the worste offenders, Rift being the other.

The same people can't seem to see that saying that has no bearing on whether or not he game is actually good.  For example, Rift is very much a copy of WoW, I don't even think Trion themselves would deny that, they're aiming directly for WoW players who are fed up with waiting for new content.  But it's also a good game.  Themepark or not, wow clone or not, Rift is a good game with developers who know exactly what they're doing and who their audience is. 

WAR a success?  In what reality?  The one were the developers didn't all but come out and say it was a bad game?  The one were they didn't practically abandon it in favor of producing a cut down version that consists of just doing the only part of the game that people actually enjoyed, battlegrounds?  I'm not saying WAR failed, but anyone who thinks this game reached anything resembling the success Mythic expected it to ahieve is willfully ingnoring the truth.  WAR did very, very poorly, and that's a fact.

 

No MMO goes from using a subscription model to F2P because it does well.  AoC may be doing well now, but it sure wasn't doing well enough to attract enough subs to keep it from having to go F2P.  AoC also plays very much like your typical themepark. 

LoTRO didn't switch to F2P becaue it was doing well either.  Publishers do not look at a subscription based game and switch to F2P because THEY THINK it will make them more money.  They do it because the subscitions aren't making them enough, and switching is the only alternative to either waiting for more people to quit or shutting down then and there. 

If F2P was the way to make more money, Blizzard would have switched WoW over a long time ago.  People are acting like these publishers haven't figured out that there is a baseline for the number of subscibers one would have to retain in order to make the subscription model worth more then F2P, and that the shift has something to do with anything other than the fact that the majority of the MMO's released aren't able to compete under the subscription model. 

 

Could you imagine an automotive industry that builds cars that all look very much like each other, with the only real difference being different colored pinstripes?  Because this is what I see a lot of. 

WTF are you talking about, they're nothing alike, this one has a different pinstripe!

 

Wonder why each new MMO is very much like the last?  Look at how many people in this thread said that LoTRO is nothing like WoW.   

 

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1664

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/10/12 5:42:06 PM#55
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Except that LOTRO did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that Rift did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that SWTOR has done pretty good, made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

 

So they aren't expecting different results, they are expecting the same reults.  To do very well, make a lot of money, and a lot of gamers will enjoy it.

Not sure on your definition of 'very well'.  It's no coincidence that lotros p2p timeframe was pretty much the same as the lifetime subs it sold.  i.e. it didn't have enough people paying a monthly sub to keep it going, people seem to forget that with these games(and i like ddo myself) that it's either go f2p or close them down/switch them to life support(1 maybe 2 servers).  It did however manage to sell over 4 or 5 mil copies so even with the license i think it's a given it was profitable.

Rift seems to be the exception when it comes to the 'clone' mmo's, but i think that's because trion seems to be halfway sensible and keeps putting the client on sale(and at time free) to keep the numbers up.

Swtor may have made a lot of money, but don't forget it cost so much to develop, market, maintain etc.  It's sales curve seems pretty poor and doesn't look like it will do as well as lotro and cost 5 times as much so seriously unlikely they've made anywhere near their money back yet and if numbers continue to drop the way they have been it may never happen.

 

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1664

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/10/12 5:43:16 PM#56
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

TBH I wouldn't call it insanity, just the standard 'executive' level of stupidity.

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

6/11/12 12:57:26 AM#57
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Except that LOTRO did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that Rift did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that SWTOR has done pretty good, made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

 

So they aren't expecting different results, they are expecting the same reults.  To do very well, make a lot of money, and a lot of gamers will enjoy it.

Exactly this.  What people fail to realize is that "beating WOW" is not a goal that developers actually have. 

Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

6/11/12 1:04:45 AM#58


Originally posted by dotdotdash
Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers."Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


I'd say the reason most MMO players are insane is because they think a game has to beat wow. Also your BOLD, underlined, quote is stupid. They aren't expecting different results. If anything they are hoping for similar results.

I agree that they should maybe be trying to do something different .. but I also know that they are doing fine by their standards. Their investors are making money while the rest of us fight over scraps and dream of something better. Pretty much the human condition atm.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  Karahandras

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1664

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/12/12 6:53:02 PM#59
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Except that LOTRO did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that Rift did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that SWTOR has done pretty good, made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

 

So they aren't expecting different results, they are expecting the same reults.  To do very well, make a lot of money, and a lot of gamers will enjoy it.

Exactly this.  What people fail to realize is that "beating WOW" is not a goal that developers actually have. 

Their goal is ultimately to become market leader, i.e. to beat wow.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19503

6/12/12 8:35:45 PM#60
Originally posted by Karahandras
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by dotdotdash

Lord of the Rings Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Warhammer Online did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Age of Conan did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Rift did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

Star Wars The Old Republic did the WoW formula; it failed to beat WoW.

...

Guild Wars 2 is doing the WoW formula for the most part.

The Elder Scrolls Online appears to be doing the WoW formula for the most part.

...

This is why pretty much every Lead Designer at a major studio working on an MMO is totally, stark raving bonkers.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Except that LOTRO did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that Rift did very well and made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

Except that SWTOR has done pretty good, made a lot of money and a lot of gamers enjoy it.

 

So they aren't expecting different results, they are expecting the same reults.  To do very well, make a lot of money, and a lot of gamers will enjoy it.

Exactly this.  What people fail to realize is that "beating WOW" is not a goal that developers actually have. 

Their goal is ultimately to become market leader, i.e. to beat wow.


How do you know? Are you a developer? May be their ultimate goal is to make a good return on investment .. which is a pretty common goal in business. You do not have to be the market leader to make a good return on investment.

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