Incompetence is better than a greedy company any day of the week.  If SOE took over, they'd raise sub to $30 (or whatever that station pass bs is now days), add in an over priced cash shop, and make a useless trading card game for it...Then in 6 months after all the initial hype is over, close down the servers or relaunch as a totally different star wars game to get more money from that hype...at least that's what SOE has done in the past...and that's me being nice lol

Originally posted by Paddyspub

Just for discussion, what  do you all think would happen to TOR's future if SOE bought the rights from EAware?   At the current status of the game, I couldnt see how it could be much worse.   Maybe they could even do a "Reverse NGE".  

You know your game is fucked when someone even suggests the possibility as being a helpful thing.

Originally posted by JeroKane

 

Smokejumper has litterly ruined the entire game ever since he took the position!

He is by far the worse producer EQ2 has ever had!

It's just disgusting and really sad as to what he has done to this wonderful game!

How he could ever authorize to let the level 1-80 reitemization go live, while EVERYONE in Test Server said NO! Do not do it!  ....is totally beyond me.

He managed to totally wreck the entire level 1 - 80 experience (5+ years of great content and history) with one single script! And then even worse, just leave it as is and move on, without bothering fixing it!

He is also the one that thought it was a great idea to remove old content from the game! Content many (me and my gf included) were still enjoying a great deal with our ALT's! Tons of players plea'd to Smokejumper to leave the old starter areas and quests in the game, but no! he knew better and did remove it anyway! Unfriggin' believable!!

 

And when it comes to SOE! I have not a single shred of respect for that company anymore as to what they are now doing to the entire European playerbase, by selling us out to a totally craptastic amateuristic German satalite tv company that has an abysmal and shady history and ZERO experience in running quality online games.

We had no say in it! And we have no choice! We either move to ProsiebenSat1 or take the highway!

SOE as far as I (and lots of Europeans) goes no longer exists!

Wow. What was the point of changing the starter areas? Why not use that dev time for more content at endgame or even alternate content for the levelers? Sounds like SOE didn't learn the lesson that should have been learned from SWG: Don't piss off the people who enjoy you game by changing it in some desperate hopes that it will bring in people who never liked your game to begin with.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Paddyspub

Just for discussion, what  do you all think would happen to TOR's future if SOE bought the rights from EAware?   At the current status of the game, I couldnt see how it could be much worse.   Maybe they could even do a "Reverse NGE".  

 

You know your game is fucked when someone even suggests the possibility as being a helpful thing.

Lol, ain't that the truth.

Originally posted by NasherUK

Very bad. Every MMO SOE has been involved with has flopped because they either screw with it after launch, or launch it in a broken state and everyone quits over-night...

I'm hoping they learned something for Planetside 2 :/

EQ2 is actually pretty fantastic - and if people would give it a chance (as well as a new engine) it would out pace WoW in six months, but pretty much everyone hates $0E - not to mention how bad the game was for years after it's release.

(I don't say this lightly, certainly I have no love or loyalty for $0E)

They have the talent and resources to pull some big ass shiny rabbits from their hats, it's just the management that are apparently assholes.

TLDR:

Given proper motivation $0E has the ability to turn Minesweeper into a hit.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Paddyspub

Just for discussion, what  do you all think would happen to TOR's future if SOE bought the rights from EAware?   At the current status of the game, I couldnt see how it could be much worse.   Maybe they could even do a "Reverse NGE".   

You know your game is fucked when someone even suggests the possibility as being a helpful thing.

 

This made me smirk.  It's pretty much true too.  Too bad there's not a like post button on these forums.

Originally posted by Cinatrot

EQ2 is actually pretty fantastic - and if people would give it a chance (as well as a new engine) it would out pace WoW in six months, but pretty much everyone hates $0E - not to mention how bad the game was for years after it's release.

(I don't say this lightly, certainly I have no love or loyalty for $0E)

They have the talent and resources to pull some big ass shiny rabbits from their hats, it's just the management that are apparently assholes.

TLDR:

Given proper motivation $0E has the ability to turn Minesweeper into a hit.

EQ2 is okay.  I still play it, but fantastic?  I don't think so.  Good, yes.  Fantastic, no.

It's a mixed bag. They done some good things like moving to F2P, upgrading the engine, adding the Beastmaster, and adding some a few interesting housing instances.

They've also done some really boneheaded things like:  screwing up their F2P model by going for the gouge, not upgrading their engine the right way and screwing up SM3, waiting too many years to add the Beastmaster, screwing up their dungeon builder and the dungeon/grouping tool,  and adding idiotic features like facial recognition instead of adding/improving their game play.  On top of that, Kunark (which was a remarkable addition) was their last decent update.

So for everything they've added that was good they didn't really do it right and they screwed up a bunch of other stuff about the game.  They've lost some of their key talent like Domino and are just squeezing the players for what they can until EQNext.

At this point I don't see TOR in any better in SOEs hands than EAs.

I have repect for SOEs dev team but they are only as good as Smedley lets them be and thats not very good IMO.

I wont return to any SOE game new or old until Smedley is out of there and SOE starts giving the paying customers respect.

It would be good. Especially if they used Koster's rules for MMO world design.

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/lawsindex.shtml 

Originally posted by Ardwulf

Quite true. Some folks lack perspective.

 Speaking of perspective...how about a list that also includes the BAD SOE games.

EQ: Was a hit.

EQ2: was a DISASTER thanks to the person Sony put in charge of it, Raph Koster. It wasnt until he was yanked due to player outrage over their not listening to what players where saying the game needed badly that it started to turn around. The increase in the playerbase came long after and it was forced on Sony to save the game.

Pirates of the Burning Sea: Does anyone actually need to say anything about Sony when it comes to this game?

Planetside: Same as above.

The Matrix Online: Same as above.

Vanguard: This game was a complete failure and you can spin all you like, nothing will change the fact that this game bombed and the only reason it stuck around more than 2 years was the creation of the Sony Station Access offer and it didnt increase population...they still had to merge down to 3 servers and a lot of people blammed Sony for it because it came with RMT.

The Agency: Does anyone even know about this game? thats how bad it was.

DC Universe Online: Right....make sure you leave off as many fails from your SOE list as possible guys...

SWG: We all know Sony made this average/good game a train wreck.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Ardwulf

Quite true. Some folks lack perspective.

 Speaking of perspective...how about a list that also includes the BAD SOE games.

EQ: Was a hit.

EQ2: was a DISASTER thanks to the person Sony put in charge of it, Raph Koster. It wasnt until he was yanked due to player outrage over their not listening to what players where saying the game needed badly that it started to turn around. The increase in the playerbase came long after and it was forced on Sony to save the game.

Pirates of the Burning Sea: Does anyone actually need to say anything about Sony when it comes to this game?

Planetside: Same as above.

The Matrix Online: Same as above.

Vanguard: This game was a complete failure and you can spin all you like, nothing will change the fact that this game bombed and the only reason it stuck around more than 2 years was the creation of the Sony Station Access offer and it didnt increase population...they still had to merge down to 3 servers and a lot of people blammed Sony for it because it came with RMT.

The Agency: Does anyone even know about this game? thats how bad it was.

DC Universe Online: Right....make sure you leave off as many fails from your SOE list as possible guys...

SWG: We all know Sony made this average/good game a train wreck.

PoTBS wasnt made by Sony. They published it.

The Matrix was a game SOE eventually took over, but they didnt make it.

Vanguard was mismanaged into the ground by Brad. Microsoft cut funding, and SOE stepped in to help get it out the door.

SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major cluster fuck buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.

Originally posted by Paddyspub

Just for discussion, what  do you all think would happen to TOR's future if SOE bought the rights from EAware?   At the current status of the game, I couldnt see how it could be much worse.   Maybe they could even do a "Reverse NGE".  

 

Also, wasnt there a rumour that SWG might come back?

It would be like taking a perfectly good train wreck and crashing an airplane into it.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Ardwulf

Quite true. Some folks lack perspective.

 Speaking of perspective...how about a list that also includes the BAD SOE games.

You are confusing perspective with opinion.

I don't think EAs history with MMOs looks much better than SoEs in all honesty.

Still you can't argue that they didn't support EQ 1&2 alot better than EA did WHO despite having comparably low subs. I can forgive alot if i see people actually try and make an effort. Though final judgement shall be delayed until i see wether Vanguard receives some love with the F2P transition or not.

In all fairness though, you simply can't expect a developer to put more money into a game than they get out, and thats including opportunity costs.

Originally posted by Moaky07

 

SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major cluster fuck buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.

I respect that you didn't like SWG. But, the game was the MMO for some people and is irreplaceable. (I personally have not found an MMO to flll the void that the CU and NGE created.) It was in no way average. That doesn't mean  it wasn't disliked by many. (Not being average doesnt equal good).

Originally posted by Moaky07

SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major  buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.

I'll give you buggy, but not much to do?

There was plenty to do in SWG, otherwise I would not have spent over 10,000 hours in it, as you can see from my Xfire sig. That is only time from Oct 2005 when I joined Xfire. The time from July 2003 to Oct 2005 was obviously not in that. I still had plenty things to do when server closed on Dec 15th 2011, and played for a solid 8 years.

SWG required an imagination though, and a lot of time to achieve things.

SWTOR just leads by the hand, and at the end of it there is not much to do at all. Considering you have stated that you only have played a few hours per month, and have not got any characters to max yet, I can see why you (still) like SWTOR. They give you plenty to do without you putting in much effort, but if I were you I would just stick to playing single player games, and save $15 per month. You are playing the game like a single player game, and not a P2P MMO which it is meant to be, but if you do not mind then that is up to you, it is your money

Originally posted by ignore_me

It would be good. Especially if they used Koster's rules for MMO world design.

 

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/lawsindex.shtml 

Yes but greedy corporations aren't going to respect Koster's awesome work, that's the problem here. Whether EA or SOE it's a battle of sales and advertising to beat money out of gamers pockets, instead of good game design to give people a fun experience. I realize not everything Koster says is practical, but if MMO games are supposed to conceptually fun to play, then EA and SOE are the stingiest most cynical Dungeon Masters in the history of the world, and nothing's going to change that.

We need to pray for a well-produced indie designed game that breaks the mold of the EA / SOE jerkys, or it's going to be a rough year. 

Originally posted by aktalat

Originally posted by ignore_me

It would be good. Especially if they used Koster's rules for MMO world design.

 

http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/lawsindex.shtml 

Yes but greedy corporations aren't going to respect Koster's awesome work, that's the problem here. Whether EA or SOE it's a battle of sales and advertising to beat money out of gamers pockets, instead of good game design to give people a fun experience. I realize not everything Koster says is practical, but if MMO games are supposed to conceptually fun to play, then EA and SOE are the stingiest most cynical Dungeon Masters in the history of the world, and nothing's going to change that.

We need to pray for a well-produced indie designed game that breaks the mold of the EA / SOE jerkys, or it's going to be a rough year. 

Ummm try clicking my sig

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Ardwulf

Quite true. Some folks lack perspective.

 Speaking of perspective...how about a list that also includes the BAD SOE games.

(cut stuff out)

Planetside: Same as above.  Actually Planetside was pretty solid and only really went downhill due to age, shooters it seems have a lot shorter lifespan.

The Matrix Online: Same as above. Matrix was in no way shape or form Sony's fault... It was pretty much borked from the start and they bought it (who knows why) and made a attempet to set it on track. It was not happening.

Vanguard: This game was a complete failure and you can spin all you like, nothing will change the fact that this game bombed and the only reason it stuck around more than 2 years was the creation of the Sony Station Access offer and it didnt increase population...they still had to merge down to 3 servers and a lot of people blammed Sony for it because it came with RMT. Not sure what went wrong here.. bad timeing and a bit short developemt cycle perhaps.

DC Universe Online: Right....make sure you leave off as many fails from your SOE list as possible guys... Actually it is not a bad game... the only mistake was to make it a subscription game.

SWG: We all know Sony made this average/good game a train wreck. Wrong... SWG was a unholy mess from the start and was very close to being canned because they could not find a publisher, Sony picking it up was  ahail mary pass. To bad the game was a buggy mess that could not be balanced. Yeah i was there in the beta... They were very close to shutting down due to lack of publisher.  the CU and the NGE was a desperate attempt to fix class balance with what i asume was code frankenstined from Vanguard.

All in all Sony have a bad habit of buying up shitty games for little to no money and try to use a min/max approach, maximum retrin from minimum investment. Most of the time this does NOT turn out very well.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Moaky07

SWG wasnt an average/good game....it was a major  buggy game, with not much to do. You can blame SOE, but more specifically you can blame Kostor as he was in charge.

I'll give you buggy, but not much to do?

There was plenty to do in SWG, otherwise I would not have spent over 10,000 hours in it, as you can see from my Xfire sig. That is only time from Oct 2005 when I joined Xfire. The time from July 2003 to Oct 2005 was obviously not in that. I still had plenty things to do when server closed on Dec 15th 2011, and played for a solid 8 years.

SWG required an imagination though, and a lot of time to achieve things.

SWTOR just leads by the hand, and at the end of it there is not much to do at all. Considering you have stated that you only have played a few hours per month, and have not got any characters to max yet, I can see why you (still) like SWTOR. They give you plenty to do without you putting in much effort, but if I were you I would just stick to playing single player games, and save $15 per month. You are playing the game like a single player game, and not a P2P MMO which it is meant to be, but if you do not mind then that is up to you, it is your money

SWG didnt offer shit for PVE. Fuck, give it a rest.

I realize for a RP stage you guys ate that shit up, but it really didnt give squat to do. PVP, tradeskill, farm the same shit. Boring.

I hear folks talk about "I would regrind my new template", and I think "yep and I was checking out new areas in EQ.". Just from 03, when SWG launched, till the time I left EQ in 06, we saw probably 6 expansions. SWG saw 3 during its entire existence.

Content isnt doing the exact same thing over n over....content is getting new things to do.

So spare me the projections on how hardcore a gamer I am. My 52.5k gamerscore on 360 says I do my fair share. The fact you would spend 10k hrs on a game like SWG raises issues all right....but not positive ones in my mind.