people that complain about soloers are the CoD/Halo FPS QQ crowd, so many games out there that cater to these crowd, yet they continue to cry and cry and cry for eterniityyyyyyy:

MMO communities these days are so full of it

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

There are still people who sadly thing that being "social" in a MMORPG means grouping up together to bash mobs. 17 years after UO's release, some still didn't get it...

That's very true, however, the less social ones are still solo'ers. I don't consider raids, open world mob invasion or pvp to be anymore "group content" than being able to gather material and building a house with other player. In fact, i consider city events, theatre plays, player made event like bands using instruments to be what true social content is in mmorpg.

The irony lies in the fact that most casual solo players SEEM (don't have facts, just using all other themeparks has "proof") to want is to do their quests, dungeons, stories, pvp, carfting all by themsleves. They don't want to participate in minigame activities with others, watch a play put on by rp'ers, nothing.

You're completly right about that being social in mmos is not being forced to group to do a quest, but, unless it involves object reaching, reward giving, combat oriented elements, it's not content to do. It's most solo'ers who believe that bashing mobs is group, social content, so your point goes nowhere.

Originally posted by GreenishBlue

people that complain about soloers are the CoD/Halo FPS QQ crowd, so many games out there that cater to these crowd, yet they continue to cry and cry and cry for eterniityyyyyyy:

Cool story bro. So, those who like to solo aren't into FPS, action style games? Wonder why then that unless what you're doing in-game is combat oriented, it's considered content then.

Maybe they are just anti-socialists who like being a part of the massive community. I know, it sounds like an oxymoron doesn't it ? LOL....

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

There are still people who sadly thing that being "social" in a MMORPG means grouping up together to bash mobs. 17 years after UO's release, some still didn't get it...

That's very true, however, the less social ones are still solo'ers. I don't consider raids, open world mob invasion or pvp to be anymore "group content" than being able to gather material and building a house with other player. In fact, i consider city events, theatre plays, player made event like bands using instruments to be what true social content is in mmorpg.

The irony lies in the fact that most casual solo players SEEM (don't have facts, just using all other themeparks has "proof") to want is to do their quests, dungeons, stories, pvp, carfting all by themsleves. They don't want to participate in minigame activities with others, watch a play put on by rp'ers, nothing.

You're completly right about that being social in mmos is not being forced to group to do a quest, but, unless it involves object reaching, reward giving, combat oriented elements, it's not content to do. It's most solo'ers who believe that bashing mobs is group, social content, so your point goes nowhere.

As I said earlier, some of the best MMORPG communities I've had the honor to be part of were UO and AC1, and both games don't have forced grouping. Two games where the solo play style was 100% supported, yet which has way better communities that today's theme parks.

What makes people antisocial is the "end game loot grind" oriented model. Even among raiders, the supposed "social" people, it's all about who is going to get that next piece of loot, greed is king. I know about it, I did some more or less hardcore raiding notably in WoW.

So on topic, pretending that forcing people to group to bash mobs makes better communities, and gathers more sociable players, is nonsense.

Originally posted by Lissyl

See that guy over there?  Yah, that one.  With the sword.  He likes to group constantly.  Of course, he won't shut up about how great he is during the entire run, spamming dps meters on critters, but wow does he like to group up.  It's almost like he needs the approval of others...

exactly and this is why i solo in MMORPGs or just play with my guild and honestly look at anyone outside my guild as just another NPC. this is why usually the first thing i do in a new MMORPG is turn off every type of chat i can except /tells or /whispers and guild chat.

when everyone and their mother think they are such a better player than the next person and is more than likely willing to tell you how bad you as a player and a person suck because you put a point into X spec instead of Y spec and you put out 4000dps instead of 4100dps, oh and you should probably kill yourself right now.

and every player out there is only grouping to get the next piece of loot and not to make friends anyway, how many times have you grouped and no one said anything ... unless you die of course then everyone has something to say and usually its "you suck at your class i have a max level alt of your class and i put out much more dps than you do and you should probably kill yourself now".

so no thanks I will not group with you random MMORPG "NPC" i will stick to myself or my little guild.

MMOs are not for solo players, the same people that probably try and play PnP games solo. Not designed for it for a reason.

No matter what anyone says I don't give a shit if somone who likes to solo is forced to group in a MMO, 99% of the content should be grouping. It shouldn't be like it is now where 99% is soloable and you can level faster solo than in a group. If you want to solo play a single player game and don't give me that crap about online socialization because if you want to solo you sure don't want to socialize in the first place.

Originally posted by Thorbrand

MMOs are not for solo players, the same people that probably try and play PnP games solo. Not designed for it for a reason.

No matter what anyone says I don't give a shit if somone who likes to solo is forced to group in a MMO, 99% of the content should be grouping. It shouldn't be like it is now where 99% is soloable and you can level faster solo than in a group. If you want to solo play a single player game and don't give me that crap about online socialization because if you want to solo you sure don't want to socialize in the first place.

a few things.

1. solo games usually dont have the mass amount of content that an MMO does. This is the reason why solo players play MMOs.

2. there are various types of personalities that like to contrubute to a collective. Some like to do their contrabution in solitude, few MMO games give the solo player something to do that also helps the clan but some do and its a good mechanic.

3. If you are already grouped going out for the fun kill of the day does it matter if you passed a guy who is solo? OR is it that you cant find anyone to play with and you want to force other people to play with you?

4. I do however agree that there should be advantages to grouping and yes many MMO's leave people asking 'why would I group? its actually more of a hassle' and I dont agree with that. There should be OPTIONS where co-op play makes real sense with each person having something different to add to the battle or goal.

I like being able to group and solo in my games. Given the choice poeple do however follow the path of least resistance to attaining their goal. Case in point as soon as blizzard realesed that 10 mans and 25 mans would drop the same loot just different quantities 25 mans on most servers became non existant. Why try to organize and run a bigger raid when the same thing can be attained with less effort and people. The same mentality works for solo play. If all items in the game were reachable solo or grouping you would see the majority just go solo thus making it harder for groups to be formed.

I am a believer in that you need to have content for all types of players. However you do have to have a target demographic of players you are looking to tailor to. If you want to make a solo player game that allows grouping great. Or if you want to have a group game that also has solo content great. But you cant have both. For instance again that is one reason blizzard lowered the raid sizes to 25 from 40 then to 10. They wanted more people to see the art work, the game they put alot of work into. So they made a path of lesser resistance so that more people would be able to see the content. I guarantee if there allowed 5 man groups in the raid zones you would see 10 mans drop down even more. If there is not some sort of greater reward,accomplishment for grouping or raiding then the majority whether they will admit it or not will end up soloing. Which brings less player to player interaction and less community.

Say what you will about what was wrong with EQ but one thing it got spot on was the need to rely on your friends. No game since EQ has had the same community that it had. Long before the days of name changes and server transfers if you became known as ther server Dbag you would not be able to get groups. If you became known for anything negative like stealing loot or wrecking groups the game became even harder for you. In primarily solo games those type of factors dont really have any weight.

So basically have content for all types of players but you do have to specific demographic in mind. You cant cater to all and expect everyone to be happy. Pick your target audience and go with it. Todays companies choose to go for the more solo or casual minded gamers. Is that wrong? In some peoples eyes yes and others no.

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Originally posted by Thorbrand MMOs are not for solo players, the same people that probably try and play PnP games solo. Not designed for it for a reason. No matter what anyone says I don't give a shit if somone who likes to solo is forced to group in a MMO, 99% of the content should be grouping. It shouldn't be like it is now where 99% is soloable and you can level faster solo than in a group. If you want to solo play a single player game and don't give me that crap about online socialization because if you want to solo you sure don't want to socialize in the first place.

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So you need other people to be forced in your playstyle to be happy? This is a 100% recipe for a catastrophic community... a bit like forcing people enjoying a cool Pub with rock music to enter a noisy night club with techno music and pretend to have fun.

And if you pretend socializing in a MMORPG means grouping with others to bash mobs, then I will only tell you not to restrict what is possible to the limits of your own imagination... personally, my best "social" MMO experiences, from which I even got a couple of real life friends, don't come from bashing mobs in a dungeon with random people just because I had to. Actually, those mob bashing experiences are among the less "social" interactions you can have in such a game, the people barely talk to each others and are only there for the goal and the loot, and many are also elitistic pricks to make it even worse.

Originally posted by itgrowls

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/05/the-soapbox-why-solo-players-dont-just-play-a-single-player-ga/

 

Love this article, awesome points. It gives the freedom to do both if you want, and generally even in the lobby games there are more options then in solo only titles which tend to be more static. Especially when it comes to updates with improvements, mmo's tend to put more of those out.

Yeah, pretty cool.

Originally posted by Soandsoso

Companies have realized that there are alot of people who will pay the box price + a monthly sub + cash shop for a single player game.

What box price + monthly sub? Most MMOs are F2P. Most MMO players do not pay a cent.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

There are still people who sadly thing that being "social" in a MMORPG means grouping up together to bash mobs. 17 years after UO's release, some still didn't get it...

What YOU don't get is that if that is what players like to do, who are YOU to say otherwise?

No everyone likes the kind of socialization you talk about. What if I LIKE to bash some mobs with friends and random strangers? I certainly am not shy to vote with my wallet.

There is NOTHING to get. Entertainment is entertainment. We play what we like and how we like it. Assuming anything else is just delusional.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

There are still people who sadly thing that being "social" in a MMORPG means grouping up together to bash mobs. 17 years after UO's release, some still didn't get it...

That's very true, however, the less social ones are still solo'ers. I don't consider raids, open world mob invasion or pvp to be anymore "group content" than being able to gather material and building a house with other player. In fact, i consider city events, theatre plays, player made event like bands using instruments to be what true social content is in mmorpg.

The irony lies in the fact that most casual solo players SEEM (don't have facts, just using all other themeparks has "proof") to want is to do their quests, dungeons, stories, pvp, carfting all by themsleves. They don't want to participate in minigame activities with others, watch a play put on by rp'ers, nothing.

You're completly right about that being social in mmos is not being forced to group to do a quest, but, unless it involves object reaching, reward giving, combat oriented elements, it's not content to do. It's most solo'ers who believe that bashing mobs is group, social content, so your point goes nowhere.

As I said earlier, some of the best MMORPG communities I've had the honor to be part of were UO and AC1, and both games don't have forced grouping. Two games where the solo play style was 100% supported, yet which has way better communities that today's theme parks.

What makes people antisocial is the "end game loot grind" oriented model. Even among raiders, the supposed "social" people, it's all about who is going to get that next piece of loot, greed is king. I know about it, I did some more or less hardcore raiding notably in WoW.

So on topic, pretending that forcing people to group to bash mobs makes better communities, and gathers more sociable players, is nonsense.

everytime I make this point, all the pro-forced groupers gladly ignore this.

Yup, AC1 and UO you were able to solo as much as you want...yet groups happened all the time

Originally posted by Thorbrand

MMOs are not for solo players, the same people that probably try and play PnP games solo. Not designed for it for a reason.

No matter what anyone says I don't give a shit if somone who likes to solo is forced to group in a MMO, 99% of the content should be grouping. It shouldn't be like it is now where 99% is soloable and you can level faster solo than in a group. If you want to solo play a single player game and don't give me that crap about online socialization because if you want to solo you sure don't want to socialize in the first place.

And i don't give a shit what you think how much of the content should be grouping. I *like* choices and will vote with my wallet. We will see who has more "votes" and which direction devs are going to go.

I just like playing through content solo, rather than group, now of course if its a boss then you have to but i really do not like the group dynamic. SWTOR kind of turned me on to small grouping with social points and cut scenes to make it more interesting, but games like DDO where you almost have to group a large part of the content can be a pain if you dont get the right group-people running off on their own, going to fast or slow or have an attitude- No thanks I would rather go solo

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Thorbrand

MMOs are not for solo players, the same people that probably try and play PnP games solo. Not designed for it for a reason.

No matter what anyone says I don't give a shit if somone who likes to solo is forced to group in a MMO, 99% of the content should be grouping. It shouldn't be like it is now where 99% is soloable and you can level faster solo than in a group. If you want to solo play a single player game and don't give me that crap about online socialization because if you want to solo you sure don't want to socialize in the first place.

And i don't give a shit what you think how much of the content should be grouping. I *like* choices and will vote with my wallet. We will see who has more "votes" and which direction devs are going to go.

Pretty much what he said.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

There are still people who sadly thing that being "social" in a MMORPG means grouping up together to bash mobs. 17 years after UO's release, some still didn't get it...

What YOU don't get is that if that is what players like to do, who are YOU to say otherwise?

No everyone likes the kind of socialization you talk about. What if I LIKE to bash some mobs with friends and random strangers? I certainly am not shy to vote with my wallet.

There is NOTHING to get. Entertainment is entertainment. We play what we like and how we like it. Assuming anything else is just delusional.

You obviously completely misunderstood what I was saying. Granted, I mispelled "think", but otherwise, it's pretty clear... I don't deny the right to be able to group up with friends to bash mobs, but it's definitely NOT the only way to socialize in a MMORPG, and not the best either.

When I play MMORPG's i tend to play solo a lot.  However, the problem with games designing content for solo players is that they seem to think solo players are incompetent gamers.  "Solo Content" always seems to be super easy and if you group then all challenge is gone.  Personally I think almost all the currently released MMORPG's are pretty much crap (there are a few exceptions).  There is zero challenge and it always seems to be about putting the time in.  SWTOR was the worst in this department.  The thing that I absolutely hated about SWTOR, and the reason I quit playing after a couple of days, was the self resurrection system.  It was the ultimate in EZmode.  I think trying to be a solo player in a group based mmorpg, may be a challenge worthy of attempting.  As of now, solo content in MMORPG's are just kill 10 rats while clicking a bunch of buttons without any real chance of dying.  I do think the level scaling in GW2 is a huge improvement in the challenge department for solo content so that does create some hope. 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Thorbrand

MMOs are not for solo players, the same people that probably try and play PnP games solo. Not designed for it for a reason.

No matter what anyone says I don't give a shit if somone who likes to solo is forced to group in a MMO, 99% of the content should be grouping. It shouldn't be like it is now where 99% is soloable and you can level faster solo than in a group. If you want to solo play a single player game and don't give me that crap about online socialization because if you want to solo you sure don't want to socialize in the first place.

And i don't give a shit what you think how much of the content should be grouping. I *like* choices and will vote with my wallet. We will see who has more "votes" and which direction devs are going to go.

Holololol

Hows your wallet doing keeping SWTOR afloat?