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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Main reason why SWTOR flopped?

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396 posts found
  Bardus

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 475

6/05/12 6:29:06 PM#241
Originally posted by mmaize
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Luxely

Personally, SWG was better. 

It was great, fun and less cartoonish like SWTOR is. 

Before/After NGE, I don't care.. I still miss it :(

I agree. :(

The thing is...you had it.  And it failed.  What do you suppose would change if it came back?

What I recall since I was there, was LA pulled the license because they thought we gamers are too stupid to know what game we're playing. It didn't fail and close due to lack of profit at all.

This TOR game is just now coming on 6 months old, look at your server populations and the cost to keep it running. Do you think it will live 8 1/2 years before LA forces it to close? Do you really?

It was a bone head move by LA no doubt in my mind. Both games could of benefitted off each other since they are in the same genre but polar oposites. Would of gave LA 2 money streams but now LA is in the verge of having no games in this market. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

  sindraod

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/08
Posts: 29

6/05/12 6:44:20 PM#242
Originally posted by lizardbones
SWG did better post NGE than pre-NGE. They certainly did lose a lot of their players, but they gained more than they lost. Not enough to cover the cost of the change...but more players.

Better financially? I'm an MMO gamer, not a stockbroker, and the game stunk post-NGE. So sorry if I don't think that's "doing better."

This goes to the core of why MMOs are doing poorly now. I vaguely remember a time when developers wanted to make quality games with potential for longevity. I think it might have been a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away or something. I dunno.

  Bleakmage

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/04
Posts: 177

I cut my teeth on Pong. \m/

6/05/12 9:35:25 PM#243

Star War! ~Slides out on knees!

Duh duh duh duh, duh duh! (Music)

Still lovin' this game :D

Started in Jan 19 :D Plan to keep playing until all are 50 :D

https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

6/05/12 11:15:48 PM#244
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by GreenHell

Due to the magic of television (which we are not allowed to talk about) I played both in direct comparison recently, and except for the graphics difference and the slow combat of SWG, SWTOR just sucks. I will cede that SWG may be a shit game, but SWTOR is super-shit, so the net difference decides it.

I never said that ToR wasn't shit. In fact I would agree with you.

This was about success and failure though. ToR has completely decimated SWG in terms of success.

Moneywise, sure. no argument. the direct comparison is factual concerning money.

Kind of weird though considering SWG is dead. Its value is effectively zero isn't it?

SWGs value was effectively zero 6 months after launch. 200 to 250k doesnt pay the bills when you are feeding LA as well.

 

CU didnt happen just on a whimsical dare.  Kostor was more concerned with making a nice stage for roleplay, vs giving activites to majority of potential gamers out there. EQ showed folks like PVE, but for some reason Raph was oblivious to it.

 

Even worse, SWG was a broken buggy POS. Heck it couldnt even support a Y axis, let alone 1 char per server cause the database was fubar'ed.

 

We have listened to you guys try to rewrite the history on SWG for yrs. Anyone around during that time remembers all the complaints about that game prior to CU. For newer gamers, they just need to hit some of the old reviews to see the 6s and 7s.

 

SOE was the biggest name in NA for MMOs when SWG hit, yet despite the Sony name, coupled with one of the biggest IPs, it was still ripped a new asshole. Not just by reviewers, but by gamers alike. I suggest a trip in the time machine to visit the SWG forums here on MMORPG, and see what folks were saying back then. Here I will help ya with a link....

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/803/page/245 

 

Anyways as some have said....TOR has already sold a ton. The PVP folks are mostly gone now. BW needs to keep kicking content for PVE folks, and consolidate servers if they hope to ever grow again. There are a lot of folks in the MMO sphere that like a game chock full of PVE, but they need to have others around as well.

Nice. I try to move away from the SWG straw man, and get punditry from someone to whom sandboxes are anathema. It was a good post, but I'm done with the comparisons to SWG.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  dumpcat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 232

6/06/12 12:20:29 PM#245
It didn't flop so...
  Demandman

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 60

6/06/12 12:30:52 PM#246
Originally posted by Bleakmage

Star War! ~Slides out on knees!

Duh duh duh duh, duh duh! (Music)

Still lovin' this game :D

Started in Jan 19 :D Plan to keep playing until all are 50 :D

Sockpuppet much...

  NagilumSadow

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/26/12
Posts: 242

6/06/12 3:45:40 PM#247
Bio/LA/EA has to come to terms: SWTOR as an "MMO" is fundamentally flawed from the ground up. Everything in the MMO reinforces artificiallity -- everything form the Red & green doors to the arcade style 16-bit space "mini-game". That is just the superficial beginning of the problem.
 
Frankly it isn't an MMORPG, but rather, a series of arbitrary paths you're forced to take inside a mini-game -- while being given the illusion of choices and options.
 
The best they can do is slowly phase-out everything they've thus far done, and replace it over time with new systems. The way they handled space should simply be deleted, and re-initialized with a page from the SWG play book.
 
Ideally they need to wipe the servers and start all over (with a different engine). Frankly EA could have given 10 million to twelve talented programers & artists and they could have delivered a VASTLY better mmorpg than Bioware did.
 
Heck they could have put light sabers in Fallen Earth and it would have been a better SW MMO.


http://wyrdgaming.blogspot.com/

  slickbizzle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/28/11
Posts: 450

6/06/12 7:04:27 PM#248

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

  Eletheryl

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/12
Posts: 154

6/06/12 7:27:44 PM#249
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

Yep, but any P2P MMO who had sold more than 2.5 mill of copies and is called swtor, is a fail from a mmorpg.com community point of view. 

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

6/06/12 7:30:17 PM#250

EA.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

6/06/12 7:30:50 PM#251
Originally posted by Eletheryl
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

Yep, but any P2P MMO who had sold more than 2.5 mill of copies and is called swtor, is a fail from a mmorpg.com community point of view. 

or any crap that sold big on one of the biggest IPs in the world and a huge marketing campaign is fail here... but to each their own...

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Karahandras

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1659

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

6/06/12 7:34:53 PM#252
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

I think it's just under 2.5mil.  Even if they'd sold over 4 mil copies it's unlikely they'd have made their money back yet(probably by quite a bit), considering the retention rate.   By the amount they spent on developing and marketing they were expecting wow type numbers.  

Flopped could also refer to people expectation, playing time and so on.

  Nobadeeftw

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 129

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall". -Confucius

6/08/12 2:14:43 AM#253

The down hill slop for me started way back in early beta.  I was one of those testers that was raising hell on the forums to no effect, trying to get Bioware to unscrew their game; yet, in every build the game became progressively worse.  What blew my lid off was when the Bioware began to blatently lie to the testers on the forums.  I knew right then that this game was going to be another Star Trek Online.  Bioware cares more about investors than paying customers, anything they do to "improve" this game is merely a gimmick to sucker people into subscribing for another month.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2110

First came pride, then envy.

6/08/12 3:29:17 AM#254
Originally posted by Eletheryl
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

Yep, but any P2P MMO who had sold more than 2.5 mill of copies and is called swtor, is a fail from a mmorpg.com community point of view. 

It's a fail when the major hub of activity has less than 20 people on it, across the majority of servers.

It's a fail when there is only 1 or 2 Heavy populated servers, and the rest are Very Light.

It's a fail when they are struggling to even keep a 1/4th of their playerbase from the magical 1.2 million sub number.

  vazeroth

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/06
Posts: 7

6/08/12 3:33:30 AM#255

could someone send a me a 7 day  invite a friend  email.

 

email - vazeroth@gmail.com

 

many thanks

 

  Skuall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 773

6/08/12 3:41:20 AM#256
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

who cares about that when only 30% of that players are still subbing?

sold numbers are cool , but its the retention of the player base what matters at the end.

  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 7431

"Really officer, they're herbs."

6/08/12 3:44:30 AM#257

Want to know the real reason SWTOR is not going to be the successful game it should have been?   Because it was not Star Wars.  It was a bad rip off of it - a clone of a clone.    They couldn't even get Jedi's right.   Bounty Hunter's as healers - instead of you know - being a Bounty Hunter?   Smugglers that don't smuggle anything?

Oh wait, that is right, it's all in "their" story.    Forgive me for wanting to create my "own" story in the Star Wars Universe.

 

Also...

When your music sounds like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxaazYPjjd4

instead of this...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMNNpIksaI  your game is not Star Wars.  

  Trol1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 184

6/08/12 5:48:38 AM#258
Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

The down hill slop for me started way back in early beta.  I was one of those testers that was raising hell on the forums to no effect, trying to get Bioware to unscrew their game; yet, in every build the game became progressively worse.  What blew my lid off was when the Bioware began to blatently lie to the testers on the forums.  I knew right then that this game was going to be another Star Trek Online.  Bioware cares more about investors than paying customers, anything they do to "improve" this game is merely a gimmick to sucker people into subscribing for another month.

So....

I'm trying to make sense out of your posting...

did SWTOR fail because you didn't like it in beta or because BW were not listening to your - crying - and were actually "lying" to you?

I mean, I'm sorry, if I'm in beta and I don't like what I see, I'll tell it everybody, incl. the devs.

But I'll also do that with a realistic eye on what's at hand.

See, I played GW2 BWE1 and I found the game to be a bunch of heartlessly cobbled together "feature" game mechanics that make the game fine for a casual gamer but not for someone who has been playing MMORPGs for more than 10 years and is willing to invest something into a game.

So I started voicing my issues both in BWE1 as well as in forums (of course the GW2 fanbhoy faction shot me down because obviously GW2 is the "bestest" game ever).

BUT I did so not really expecting anything to change! ANet were on their fast food game track and would not suddenly change it.

Which I perfectly except and now know which game NOT to buy.

Maybe you should have done the same? If you are playing beta, a long, long way into development, and things don't feel "right" for you, well, you may say what you want, but you should not expect that things will definitely change. It's the simple and bitter truth.

Now, if indeed BW had promised to change things but failed to do so, yes, that would be something else... but, to be honest, as you are not even giving any example of what "lie" they supposedly told, well...

I mean, I'm sorry, I got in on the beta weekend just before release. I found one bug, I reported it, I bought the early access, I didn't find the bug anymore, all was good.

Though I did find some differences.

Now, BW may actually have not lied to you, just kept the change for the release or there after...

so, your rage is your thing... but in what way it made SWTOR "fail" remains a mistery to me...

Oh, and

"anything they do to "improve" this game is merely a gimmick to sucker people into subscribing for another month"

you know that this is actually what most MMO gamers would call ideal? To be fed something new every months, just so they stay another month?

It's normal with today's instant gratification generation where the content initially provided is easily gobbled up and if nothing new is served straightaway the game is a fail and incomplete, etc.

Believe me, I belong to a generation of MMO gamers who could spend long, long months playing with the content of the initial release box, often way longer than the release of the next expansion box when taking into consideration the updates that were released for the game.

For me, if things had been made to go slower in SWTOR I would not have seen any need to rush out multiple updates over 6 months time.

But hey, for you - apparently - your new food on the table mustn't be "gimmicky" but only the highest quality food, right?

 

  Trol1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/12
Posts: 184

6/08/12 6:01:13 AM#259
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Eletheryl
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

Yep, but any P2P MMO who had sold more than 2.5 mill of copies and is called swtor, is a fail from a mmorpg.com community point of view. 

It's a fail when the major hub of activity has less than 20 people on it, across the majority of servers.

It's a fail when there is only 1 or 2 Heavy populated servers, and the rest are Very Light.

It's a fail when they are struggling to even keep a 1/4th of their playerbase from the magical 1.2 million sub number.

Originally posted by Skuall
Originally posted by slickbizzle

SWTOR flopped?  Haven't they sold over 4 million copies of the game?   

who cares about that when only 30% of that players are still subbing?

sold numbers are cool , but its the retention of the player base what matters at the end.

I'm always wondering where people get their numbers from?

"magical 1.2 million sub number"? "a 1/4th" of it?

That would be 300K subs... last offical number I heard was 1 Mio active subs (so, no trial, no initial 30 days, all more than 30 days old and paying...)

"30% of that players are still subbing"?

top subscription number (and that does include trials, initials etc. besides actual active subscriptions - see above) was 1.7 Mio.

30% of that is 510000.

Aside from that still being a strong number in today's MMO market, it's by far of the latest numbers for both overall subscriptions (1.3 Mio) and for active subscriptions (1 Mio), both of which are about a month old, so things can of course have shifted but you better show me the numbers to prove it ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

6/08/12 6:04:09 AM#260
Originally posted by Karahandras

Flopped could also refer to people expectation, playing time and so on.

One of those cool Forum Buzzwords that people grab onto.  AoC is "failed".  Been failed for quite a long time, according to gamers.

Imagine Funcom gets a pretty good giggle about it every time they make a sizeable deposit, tho.

You can count the "failed" games pretty easily--every game since 2004.

Irritatingly (to gamers) they're almost all still around.

It's our definition of "success" that got warped by WoW's success the worst.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

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