I've noticed the biggest challenge for some MMOs isn't the gameplay or combat, it's reading the descriptions for 50 different abilities and trying to place them on my hotbar in a configuration that leaves me with some sense of sanity.

Am I alone in this?  A few games off the top of my head that utilize the "way more spells than you'll ever use" mechanics are WoW, SWTOR, AoC, and EQ2.

I realize you aren't required to use every spell, and I'm guessing most people don't.  But somehow I feel like I'm doing it wrong if I don't memorize every single spell in my spellbook and make use of them all.

This is just one reason why I'm looking forward to some of the new games on the horizon.  I like the idea of decks, having a limited number of slots for the skills you actually plan to use.  This makes the game seem more rewarding to build a deck with only a few spells, rather than cluttering screen real estate with seven hotbars full of spells that I barely remember what they do and I will probably never remember to use them when the time comes.

Maybe it's just my roots in online FPS games, or maybe I've got too many things going on IRL to bother with memorizing the exact effect of every ability my character knows.  Is there anyone out there who actually uses every spell your character has trained?  And if so, what kind of drugs are you on?

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan, myself.

I've used all the spells on my Shadow Priest in WoW. Some where used just during leveling, others just against certain mobs (who were immune to shadow damage for example), but for the most part, I agree that you generally don't need 50 spells and certainly won't be using them all the time.

I like having options.  I don't like feeling I need to keymap all the options and use them all in a single encounter, nor being presented with a blank slate that insists I do a month of statistical testing to figure exactly how the bonuses from different stats add up.  I also don't like the game telling me that because I decided to roleplay rather than min-max, my build has insufficient dps to make me worthy of showing my face in public.

I would rather have more complexity then what current MMOs offer. I love situational skills and there is not enough of it in MMOs atm.

GW2 strikes me as my type of game because of how many skills there are to keep track of. This makes systems have a lot of depth (you can perform ok by knowing a small amount of abilities but optimal performances requires knowledge of it all).

In Vanilla WoW mage optimal dps rotation was fireball spam. Later it was manage scorch debuff and fireball spam. Do we really have to go back to optimal play being that braindead simple?

Yea OP I know exactly what you mean.  I do the same thing and I am sometimes annoyed myself. 

The real pain is if you've taken a decent break from playing your high level toon, and then you come back and end up staring at the screen in horror and mumbling, " Oh man.  Sigh.....okay what do all these do again?  Ummm...."  . 

Its not incredibly hard to get adjusted again but it does take a good deal of effort. 

Plus not only are all those spells all over the screen probably not really necessary, but they also take up the field of vision which Im not overly always fond of either.  Yet I cant help myself and must plaster every single thing Im capable of doing all over the bottom and sides of the screen. 

Originally posted by maplestone

I like having options.  I don't like feeling I need to keymap all the options and use them all in a single encounter, nor being presented with a blank slate that insists I do a month of statistical testing to figure exactly how the bonuses from different stats add up.  I also don't like the game telling me that because I decided to roleplay rather than min-max, my build has insufficient dps to make me worthy of showing my face in public.

I agree. Far too many games have given us false hope of variety and choice just to be locked into the "Best DPS" rotation or fill up the bleachers.

I for one tend to play my characters in ways that are almost always wrong based on the min-max/perfect rotation/build/gear models.

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Originally posted by Corehaven
Yea OP I know exactly what you mean.  I do the same thing and I am sometimes annoyed myself. 
 
The real pain is if you've taken a decent break from playing your high level toon, and then you come back and end up staring at the screen in horror and mumbling, " Oh man.  Sigh.....okay what do all these do again?  Ummm...."  . 
 
Its not incredibly hard to get adjusted again but it does take a good deal of effort. 
 
Plus not only are all those spells all over the screen probably not really necessary, but they also take up the field of vision which Im not overly always fond of either.  Yet I cant help myself and must plaster every single thing Im capable of doing all over the bottom and sides of the screen. 

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Lol you nailed it man. "I'm not sure what this spell does, but I better put it on the hotbar just in case."

It bites coming back to a game and readjusting to the mess of skills. But you're right, with a little patience and effort you eventually get your bearings.

I think some newer games have actually done a good job with cleaning up the clutter a bit. Like Rift has a separate little interface for situational spells, and Aion actually replaces the skill on the hotbar you just used with its follow-up skill. And TERA, and even Vanguard has a separate interface for spell combos and situational spells.

LOTRO is the same for some classes. My Minstrell isn't even within signt of the level cap and already has three bars full with some other bits and pieces scattered about using addons to give them somwhere to live. It's getting ridiculous. Problem is, if you don't slot them, you just know that the next mob you meet will be immune to all but that one special power.

Diablo 3 is certainly a good take on how a game with fewer abilities can still feel relatively deep.  The MMORPG genre could really revolutionize its own combat by limiting itself like D3 or GW1 to very few abilities (while, of course, ensuring that each individual ability has a certain depth to its usage so that combat can be simple but deep.)

Choices choices... how I love them. Don't get me wrong, there can be too many, but too few is a far worse scenario.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Diablo 3 is certainly a good take on how a game with fewer abilities can still feel relatively deep.  The MMORPG genre could really revolutionize its own combat by limiting itself like D3 or GW1 to very few abilities (while, of course, ensuring that each individual ability has a certain depth to its usage so that combat can be simple but deep.)

i think TSW has the potential for this.

~250 skills? you can eventually gain all of them. however, you are limited to 7 active and 7 passive skills at a time. mix and match as you please.

Well, thats what makes MMO combat so very interesting. You're never sure what are the optimal abilities to use next. There could always be something you could do to improve.

i don't mind large spell pools.  it can be confusing when starting out,  but leveling helps with that.  also like anything else it just takes time to learn.  it's nice to have variety.

im playing tera just while i wait for tsw and further AA,and im experiencing exactly what op says,im at lv32 and im already flooded with useless skills that does more or less the same crap

i hate that since my wow days back in several years :(

im lookkiing for some macros atm...is that any for tera

I like it when they limit you to a certain amount of skills/spells as long as they give a good amount to mix it all up with.

Also i think they should kick the idea of certain skills/spells being better because then you'll get boring builds which everyone has to take if they want to even join a group or w/e. If every skill does as much damage or close enough then you can truely make interesting builds because then you are not limited to "omgwtfpwnedy00spellzzzofdoomz".

Choices are good but a lot of the time it's just an illusion as half of them you wouldn't use in any situation due to them being inferior.

The more the better. Do I have 50 spells/abilities I need to have keybound? No problem, I like it that way and make a point of trying to come up with creative uses of even the most situational ones (in fact, that's my favorite part).

I do like options. Especially *real* options (meaning not a dozen different variants of magic missile with different names). And every time an MMO gets rid of an ability that adds some character or gives you some new things to do, even if that thing seemed redundant to an overwhelming majority of the playerbase, I'm miffed.

Case in point: Why remove Eyes of the Beast in WOW, a fun spell that let you see through your pet's eyes? It was one of those spells that you could use out of combat and that let you do interesting things. Granted, it was not something you routinely used, but it brought something special - I had way more memorable moments using it than I had most other spells. Maybe MMO developers think adding yet another DOT is more relevant than something like this, and frankly the new games we have is a testament to how this line of thought works. Boring pure combat games that feel like persistent MOBAs to me.

So if you're going to come up with fun, distinct spells, don't be afraid to go ahead and give me a hundred of them. I'll keep track every single one, keep them all keybound and use them when applicable. Promise. :)

It has everything to do with your reasons for playing the game. If your main reason for playing is that you want to be challenged and only do well by learning the game inside and out, then it makes sense to overload you with choices so that only the number-crunchers (and the wiki-readers) max out their dps by using every skill to its highest potential, including the situational ones. If your main reason for playing is anything else—roleplaying, immersion, socialization, etc.—hotbar overload either has no value to you or actively makes things worse.

I know exactly how you feel, it's the primary reason I cannot get back into Rift and why I cannot get very far in EQ2.

If a game calls for me to use more than 16 abilities (the maximum I can memorize/bind also not counting buffs) then I can't play it properly. The only reason I got to cap in Rift was thanks to macro's and they make it difficult to get a feel for what you are actually using in combat.

I feel like WoW got it right with Cata as far as getting rid of the useless/fluff skills and combining certain skills that made sense into one, though the Warlock class still has a ton of skills.