Originally posted by Golelorn

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by DjinnAjit

A flop?

I played FFXIV day 1...you all have no idea what a flop is.  Spend millions and literally have to give the game for free because it's so broken and know you will never make your money back from development.  That is a flop.

Selling enough boxes to probably make most of development costs back...then enough subs to be in the black in a month or two...that's not a flop.  Most developers would kill to have 1.7 subs immediately even if it does drop off.

I think what you want to debate is if the game has legs or not.  Which literally no one on these forums has a clue of because that is often based on success of competition and future updates.

On a side note...why does everyone on these forums hate MMOs?  You all do realize that if SWTOR was a true flop you would see a ton of development dollars disappear and then the possibility of a MMO that you may like will never come along.

Let people who enjoy linear story based amusement park MMOs enjoy themselves.  Just because most here are bitter that their favorite MMO is either dead or not what they remember it to be (nostalgia is a bitch), does not mean you have to be such a downer.

WoW showed there is a huge growing market for MMOs...I'm sure there can be plenty of high quality, high population games that can exist at the same time.

If you grow the MMO market in general then it is not a zero sum game so you do not have to care anymore if the game you hate does well.

(sorry...this rant was a long time coming)

 

 

SWTOR did not grow the market. Show proof if you've read this somewhere besides a MMO forum.

 

SWTOR has been reported to cost 300 million dollars with only 2.3 million box sales. You do the math.

Show us the 300M number for a fact, otherwise YOU do the math.

There is no doubt BW captured at least 1 Non MMO player....I hadnt played MMOs in several yrs, and actually quit playing reguarly back in 06. Just like Blizz did with their fans, bringing in gamers not playing MMOs is how you grow a market. Not every WoW fan was a MMO fan beforehand. A number of them showed up for the Bliz name, just as BW had their own brand of fans.

For you to attempt to suggest otherwise is the epitome of ignorance pertaining to the MMO sphere of gaming.

Thanks for playing.

Originally posted by Golelorn

SWTOR did not grow the market. Show proof if you've read this somewhere besides a MMO forum.

 

SWTOR has been reported to cost 300 million dollars with only 2.3 million box sales. You do the math.

I dont know.  I keep hearing all sorts of various numbers on the cost of the game.  Yes Ive heard 300 million but also 250, 200,150,120 .  

Anyways on box sales I did fuzzy math and if 2.3 is correct thats something like 138 million.  With subs they may have made a profit.  I guess.  I cant be sure.  Ive often wondered if income eventually surpased development/advertising costs thus turning any kind of profit many times.   In other words I wonder if Swtor has ever gotten into the profit income. 

If so I suspect so far it hasnt been overly substantial.  What with the the upcoming free to play till level 15 demo mechanic, all the e-mails Ive gotten offering me yet another free weekend and all the other stuff. 

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by Golelorn

SWTOR did not grow the market. Show proof if you've read this somewhere besides a MMO forum.

 

SWTOR has been reported to cost 300 million dollars with only 2.3 million box sales. You do the math.

 

I dont know.  I keep hearing all sorts of various numbers on the cost of the game.  Yes Ive heard 300 million but also 250, 200,150,120 .  

 

Anyways on box sales I did fuzzy math and if 2.3 is correct thats something like 138 million.  With subs they may have made a profit.  I guess.  I cant be sure.  Ive often wondered if income eventually surpased development/advertising costs thus turning any kind of profit many times.   In other words I wonder if Swtor has ever gotten into the profit income. 

 

If so I suspect so far it hasnt been overly substantial.  What with the the upcoming free to play till level 15 demo mechanic, all the e-mails Ive gotten offering me yet another free weekend and all the other stuff. 

Thanks Core....

I knew someone sporting a Mal pic couldnt be all bad. If ya listened to the drones around here, you would think TOR is still 200M in the hole. A major crash n burn ala SWG at launch.

I have no clue why sandbox fans dont seek to get the Firefly Universe built in their mold. It would actually fit in pretty well. I guess it is easier to camp n bitch about a game they have no interest in playing.  /shrug

Space combat is rubbish

Loby gameplay you solo till you find a group. Then go to an instance to run the flashpoint

Open world pvp there wasn't any and battlegrounds are boring.

PvP had no Empire control system in place which would buff your faction

Crafting is borked.

Bugs on mobs that made them immunes to attacks due to constant dodging.

Emtpy servers after a month of play.

Graphics are low resolution in game play yet in cutscenes switches to high resolutions.

Armour for jedi made you look silly.

The before release were of high resolution yet when we actualy see the in game graphics its all low. We was missled.

Unbalanced classes for pvp. Stun locks realy ?

Battlegrounds allowing level 50's to play against level 10 players. No matter how much your buffed a level 10 player will always die to a level 50 due to abilities and skills from the level 50. I have seen one level 50 bounty hunter kill off the entire republic team in a pvp match solo.

Other than that the story game play was ok. But they should of made KOTOR 3 instead with the money it would of done far better.

The main reason it flopped is because it wasn't SWG, sux that a great game had to die for a shit game to take its place.

*sigh* My poor poor jedi

Originally posted by Rakuji

The main reason it flopped is because it wasn't SWG, sux that a great game had to die for a shit game to take its place.

 

 

*sigh* My poor poor jedi

LMAO...thats some funny stuff right there. How can a game that had around 200k players during it's peak be a success and yet ToR that has far more than that be a failure?

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by Rakuji

The main reason it flopped is because it wasn't SWG, sux that a great game had to die for a shit game to take its place.

 

 

*sigh* My poor poor jedi

LMAO...thats some funny stuff right there. How can a game that had around 200k players during it's peak be a success and yet ToR that has far more than that be a failure?

 

It's even funnier because it's true!

Explain to me how thats true.

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by Rakuji

The main reason it flopped is because it wasn't SWG, sux that a great game had to die for a shit game to take its place.

 

 

*sigh* My poor poor jedi

LMAO...thats some funny stuff right there. How can a game that had around 200k players during it's peak be a success and yet ToR that has far more than that be a failure?

 

Is it better to grow and peak at 200k, or to peak at 1,7m and drop to 200k in course of few months losing 200m$ in the process?

Originally posted by Corehaven

I dont know.  I keep hearing all sorts of various numbers on the cost of the game.  Yes Ive heard 300 million but also 250, 200,150,120 .  

 

Anyways on box sales I did fuzzy math and if 2.3 is correct thats something like 138 million.  With subs they may have made a profit.  I guess.  I cant be sure.  Ive often wondered if income eventually surpased development/advertising costs thus turning any kind of profit many times.   In other words I wonder if Swtor has ever gotten into the profit income. 

 

If so I suspect so far it hasnt been overly substantial.  What with the the upcoming free to play till level 15 demo mechanic, all the e-mails Ive gotten offering me yet another free weekend and all the other stuff. 

138m...allrighty.

who cares about how many subs? I am talking about the quality of the game. SWG had so much more. Story Telling? PFFFFTTT you could make your own freaking jedi trials for guild members and crap wit story telling in SWG. So YES, SWG was a far better game even after NGE and CU.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by Rakuji

The main reason it flopped is because it wasn't SWG, sux that a great game had to die for a shit game to take its place.

 

 

*sigh* My poor poor jedi

LMAO...thats some funny stuff right there. How can a game that had around 200k players during it's peak be a success and yet ToR that has far more than that be a failure?

 

Is it better to grow and peak at 200k, or to peak at 1,7m and drop to 200k in course of few months?

LOL..and you know how many subs ToR has? Really only 200k? LMAO!

Grow to 200k to lose most of that in one patch and end up at around what 10k? Maybe less? Do you remember all of those empty servers? Do you remember the house purging? Time to take off those rose colored glasses when looking back at SWG. The game was a failure in every sense of the word.

Originally posted by GreenHell

Explain to me how thats true.

SWTOR is a game that fails to do anything well.

It fails to have diversity of activity.

It fails at representing Star Wars. It fails at giving MMO longevity of play.

It fails at keeping subs.

It fails at having a good reputation in the community as a whole.

It fails to not be a quasi cartoon.

It fails to have intuitive functional design.

It fails to develop any of its own concepts fully (alignment, warfare, vehicles, ships [.75 per class], races, crafting).

It fails to improve (E3 content revealed is more of the same).

It fails to have objective defenders.

It fails to let players make their own story because the game is so restrictive that everything you do outside of questing is disjointed, like you took the rail car off the rails and now have a wheeled vehicle that can't drive anywhere.

It's great that it made a lot of money, and will continue to do so. But that just makes it a profitable piece of shit.

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by Rakuji

The main reason it flopped is because it wasn't SWG, sux that a great game had to die for a shit game to take its place.

 

 

*sigh* My poor poor jedi

LMAO...thats some funny stuff right there. How can a game that had around 200k players during it's peak be a success and yet ToR that has far more than that be a failure?

 

Is it better to grow and peak at 200k, or to peak at 1,7m and drop to 200k in course of few months?

LOL..and you know how many subs ToR has? Really only 200k? LMAO!

Grow to 200k to lose most of that in one patch and end up at around what 10k? Maybe less? Do you remember all of those empty servers? Do you remember the house purging? Time to take off those rose colored glasses when looking back at SWG. The game was a failure in every sense of the word.

 

You dont have to remember dead servers in SWTOR - just log in in 95% of them and experience dead server yourself!

Hell, i bet they could charge people just for that lol

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by GreenHell

Explain to me how thats true.

SWTOR is a game that fails to do anything well.

It fails to have diversity of activity.

It fails at representing Star Wars. It fails at giving MMO longevity of play.

It fails at keeping subs.

It fails at having a good reputation in the community as a whole.

It fails to not be a quasi cartoon.

It fails to have intuitive functional design.

It fails to develop any of its own concepts fully (alignment, warfare, vehicles, ships [.75 per class], races, crafting).

It fails to improve (E3 content revealed is more of the same).

It fails to have objective defenders.

It fails to let players make their own story because the game is so restrictive that everything you do outside of questing is disjointed, like you took the rail car off the rails and now have a wheeled vehicle that can't drive anywhere.

It's great that it made a lot of money, and will continue to do so. But that just makes it a profitable piece of shit.

and many of the same things could be said for SWG. Not all but many. I am not a ToR fan at all. In fact I hated it. I am not so blind however to call ToR a failure and SWG a success. The thought of that just simply amazes me. Once again it is a matter of calling something you don't like a failure and something you do like a success.

Read your list and how many of those things could just as easily apply to SWG? Hell most of them do except the making tons of money part.

You dont have to remember dead servers in SWTOR - just log in in 95% of them and experience dead server yourself! Hell, i bet they could charge people just for that lol

Ok so that is something both games have in common. I'd still bet that ToR has more players right now than SWG ever had.

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by GreenHell

Explain to me how thats true.

SWTOR is a game that fails to do anything well.

It fails to have diversity of activity.

It fails at representing Star Wars. It fails at giving MMO longevity of play.

It fails at keeping subs.

It fails at having a good reputation in the community as a whole.

It fails to not be a quasi cartoon.

It fails to have intuitive functional design.

It fails to develop any of its own concepts fully (alignment, warfare, vehicles, ships [.75 per class], races, crafting).

It fails to improve (E3 content revealed is more of the same).

It fails to have objective defenders.

It fails to let players make their own story because the game is so restrictive that everything you do outside of questing is disjointed, like you took the rail car off the rails and now have a wheeled vehicle that can't drive anywhere.

It's great that it made a lot of money, and will continue to do so. But that just makes it a profitable piece of shit.

and many of the same things could be said for SWG. Not all but many. I am not a ToR fan at all. In fact I hated it. I am not so blind however to call ToR a failure and SWG a success. The thought of that just simply amazes me. Once again it is a matter of calling something you don't like a failure and something you do like a success.

Read your list and how many of those things could just as easily apply to SWG? Hell most of them do except the making tons of money part.

Due to the magic of television (which we are not allowed to talk about) I played both in direct comparison recently, and except for the graphics difference and the slow combat of SWG, SWTOR just sucks. I will cede that SWG may be a shit game, but SWTOR is super-shit, so the net difference decides it.

Originally posted by GreenHell

You dont have to remember dead servers in SWTOR - just log in in 95% of them and experience dead server yourself! Hell, i bet they could charge people just for that lol

Ok so that is something both games have in common. I'd still bet that ToR has more players right now than SWG ever had.

It's a populated mall with two stores.

Due to the magic of television (which we are not allowed to talk about) I played both in direct comparison recently, and except for the graphics difference and the slow combat of SWG, SWTOR just sucks. I will cede that SWG may be a shit game, but SWTOR is super-shit, so the net difference decides it.

I never said that ToR wasn't shit. In fact I would agree with you.

This was about success and failure though. ToR has completely decimated SWG in terms of success.

6 months later and this forum is still full of haters...TOR must be doing fairly well if y'all can't forget about it.

I mean if it were dead, these people would all move on...I dunno, maybe they really do like to beat a dead horse for years in this case.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by GreenHell

You dont have to remember dead servers in SWTOR - just log in in 95% of them and experience dead server yourself! Hell, i bet they could charge people just for that lol

Ok so that is something both games have in common. I'd still bet that ToR has more players right now than SWG ever had.

It's a populated mall with two stores.

 

and SWG was what? A sandbox full of broken toys that no one played in?