There is no end game in eve. I never said there was.

It's 100% sandbox once you get in 0.0 because it's entirely controlled and fought/defended over by play groups (corps/alliances). Your not themeparking anymore at that point, your building your own content/story lines according to how to respond/react to other players in the same area. To argue that's not sandbox would be pretty stupid.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

If you choose to play EVE solo, you are choosing the hard road. It's entirely possible, but it will take a lot more effort than if you joined up with a corp. 

According to our last survey,  a lot of EVE players seem to like travelling the hard road.

Eeenteresting... I wish they had actually data mined for some of that info rather than doing a survey, though.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

If you choose to play EVE solo, you are choosing the hard road. It's entirely possible, but it will take a lot more effort than if you joined up with a corp. 

According to our last survey,  a lot of EVE players seem to like travelling the hard road.

No surprise there, hehe

Surviving and "thriving" in EVE as a solo player is hugely satisfying. At least it was for me... and I've racked-up 6 years in EVE, at least 50% of which was as a solo player. I'm currently not subbed to EVE, but that's just because I like taking a break from time to time. I will be back 

Originally posted by BigCountry

There is no end game in eve. I never said there was.

It's 100% sandbox once you get in 0.0 because it's entirely controlled and fought/defended over by play groups (corps/alliances). Your not themeparking anymore at that point, your building your own content/story lines according to how to respond/react to other players in the same area. To argue that's not sandbox would be pretty stupid.

Its probably ignorance rather than stupidity, if they haven't spent a large amount of time in the player driven part of the game then they probably do think there's no sandbox.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

If you choose to play EVE solo, you are choosing the hard road. It's entirely possible, but it will take a lot more effort than if you joined up with a corp. 

According to our last survey,  a lot of EVE players seem to like travelling the hard road.

Eeenteresting... I wish they had actually data mined for some of that info rather than doing a survey, though.

Hit up CCP Diagoras on Twitter for that stuff. ;)

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by BigCountry

You should never stop playing eve. Always have a pilot in training :D

 

Come back and join a large corp/alliance.

 

Get our of high sec and play in 0.0. That's where the game really begins :D

This is why EVE is NOT a Sandbox.  It has "End Game" just like every other MMO on the market.

EvE Vet's just like to keep saying it over and over again but EvE has sandbox elements but it is NOT a Sandbox.

High Sec is less safe then 0.0 and you would know this if you ever played in 0.0.   I carebear more in 0.0 space then high sec.  I avoid low sec at all cost.

What you seem to consider 'end game' can be done from Day One by any player so that's some really odd logic there. Or are you under the impression that people have to grind high and low sec, get to x SP and have y gear before they get to 'end game'?

 

Most of the alliances out in Null require a certain amount of SP.  Sure you can go there on day one but how long are you going to last?

I never said 0.0 was end game, the post I quoted did.  By saying the game "Really starts once you live in O.O" is the same thing as "when you hit max level is when the real game starts"

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by BigCountry

There is no end game in eve. I never said there was.

It's 100% sandbox once you get in 0.0 because it's entirely controlled and fought/defended over by play groups (corps/alliances). Your not themeparking anymore at that point, your building your own content/story lines according to how to respond/react to other players in the same area. To argue that's not sandbox would be pretty stupid.

Its probably ignorance rather than stupidity, if they haven't spent a large amount of time in the player driven part of the game then they probably do think there's no sandbox.

To say EvE is a sandbox is pretty stupid.  Even in 0.0 you have restrictions on what you can put on what ship, what faction you have to do certian missions.  There are restrictions which means its not a true sandbox.

I know you guys want it to be a Sandbox so bad but its not, sorry but it is not a Sandbox.  It does have the Sandbox Elements and a lot of them but its not a sandbox.

If it was a Sandbox, I could mount guns on a mining ship.

A Sandbox game allows a player to play the game the way they want when they want.  That is not the Case in EVE.  Currently PvPers are defining the game play for all other play styles.

I live in 0.0, it is way safer then low sec and high sec.  Low being the most dangerous and High sec being second.

I am a carebear that never leaves 0.0.  I rarely PvP unless called too and spend my time scanning down sites and anom's.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

 

To say EvE is a sandbox is pretty stupid.  Even in 0.0 you have restrictions on what you can put on what ship, what faction you have to do certian missions.  There are restrictions which means its not a true sandbox.

I know you guys want it to be a Sandbox so bad but its not, sorry but it is not a Sandbox.  It does have the Sandbox Elements and a lot of them but its not a sandbox.

If it was a Sandbox, I could mount guns on a mining ship.

A Sandbox game allows a player to play the game the way they want when they want.  That is not the Case in EVE.  Currently PvPers are defining the game play for all other play styles.

I live in 0.0, it is way safer then low sec and high sec.  Low being the most dangerous and High sec being second.

I am a carebear that never leaves 0.0.  I rarely PvP unless called too and spend my time scanning down sites and anom's.

You want to mount guns on a mining ship but since you can not, EVE is not a sandbox. Okay~~~~

Hmm... Can I mount a gattling gun on a F22-Raptor? No?!

Does that mean REAL-LIFE isn't a sandbox? o_O

PvPers are trying to make it so that you play the game as they want it.

That's what a sandbox is. Don't like it? Tough. Or fight back.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by TdogSkal

 

To say EvE is a sandbox is pretty stupid.  Even in 0.0 you have restrictions on what you can put on what ship, what faction you have to do certian missions.  There are restrictions which means its not a true sandbox.

I know you guys want it to be a Sandbox so bad but its not, sorry but it is not a Sandbox.  It does have the Sandbox Elements and a lot of them but its not a sandbox.

If it was a Sandbox, I could mount guns on a mining ship.

A Sandbox game allows a player to play the game the way they want when they want.  That is not the Case in EVE.  Currently PvPers are defining the game play for all other play styles.

I live in 0.0, it is way safer then low sec and high sec.  Low being the most dangerous and High sec being second.

I am a carebear that never leaves 0.0.  I rarely PvP unless called too and spend my time scanning down sites and anom's.

You want to mount guns on a mining ship but since you can not, EVE is not a sandbox. Okay~~~~

Hmm... Can I mount a gattling gun on a F22-Raptor? No?!

Does that mean REAL-LIFE isn't a sandbox? o_O

 

PvPers are trying to make it so that you play the game as they want it.

That's what a sandbox is. Don't like it? Tough. Or fight back.

No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

 

No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

 

Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by TdogSkal

 

No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

 

Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

Understand the difference?

Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

His lack of attention to detail about the gun of the F22 doesn't mean that his point is wrong.

You are basically stating that if that game has some form of aggressive interaction between players which causes one or the other to deviate from his norm is not a sandbox?

I don't know what sandbox you've played in, but I never had a ignore button that prevent other cats that were bigger and badder than I from stomping my castle to the ground.

Originally posted by bossalinie

His lack of attention to detail about the gun of the F22 doesn't mean that his point is wrong.

You are basically stating that if that game has some form of aggressive interaction between players which causes one or the other to deviate from his norm is not a sandbox?

I don't know what sandbox you've played in, but I never had a ignore button that prevent other cats that were bigger and badder than I from stomping my castle to the ground.

 

Sure you did, nobody forced you to build the castle at the beach, you could have just built it in your back yard in your own sandbox and then nobody would have stomped it into the ground.

EvE does not give you that option, you cannot go play in your own little corner and ignore all others. 

I am saying any game that does not a player to play the game his or her way when he or she wants to is not a true sandbox.

Can we agree their are sandbox Elements in EvE but it is not a full sandbox.

Can you kill stations in high sec?

Can you equip any ship with any mod?

Can you move or destroy system gates?

Can you wipe out pirate factions to the point they never come back?

You can alter certain per defined area's of the game but not every thing in the game.  That is not a Sandbox.  It has sandbox Elements and is the closet thing to a true Sandbox in the MMO market but that does not make it a sandbox.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by TdogSkal

 

No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

 

Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

Understand the difference?

Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

If your definition of a "sandbox game" is correct, then we will never see a sandbox game. Ever.

In fact, by your definition an actual sandbox is not a sandbox, because if you are allowed to remove all the sand, how can you still call it a sandbox ?

In Entropia, can you modify your weapons any way you want to ? Can you fit weapons to vehicles, and if so, can you fit any weapon in the game to any vehicle ?

The amount of choices in any game will be determined by the complexity of the underlying code, and how the developers decide to "balance" the gameplay. In EVE, that balance is achieved by making mining vessels vulnerable. They are not supposed to be weapons platforms, they are supposed do be protected by other players who are flying weapons platforms.

In RL, military construction vehicles (like bulldozers and front-end loaders) to not mount howitzers, and troop transport trucks aren't fitted with gatling guns, because they are purpose built vehicles, and that purpose is not to fight. Whenever those vehicles are deployed in dangerous areas, they are usually guarded by fighting vehicles.

It's simply not economical to build a single vehicle that can fight AND mine with high efficiency. Any mining company that tries that will go bankrupt. Far easier to protect your industrial assets with dedicated fighting vehicles. It makes perfect sense to me. And that's one of the reasons why I enjoy EVE, because the systems do make sense to me.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by bossalinie

His lack of attention to detail about the gun of the F22 doesn't mean that his point is wrong.

You are basically stating that if that game has some form of aggressive interaction between players which causes one or the other to deviate from his norm is not a sandbox?

I don't know what sandbox you've played in, but I never had a ignore button that prevent other cats that were bigger and badder than I from stomping my castle to the ground.

 

Sure you did, nobody forced you to build the castle at the beach, you could have just built it in your back yard in your own sandbox and then nobody would have stomped it into the ground.

EvE does not give you that option, you cannot go play in your own little corner and ignore all others. 

I am saying any game that does not a player to play the game his or her way when he or she wants to is not a true sandbox.

Can we agree their are sandbox Elements in EvE but it is not a full sandbox.

Can you kill stations in high sec?

Can you equip any ship with any mod?

Can you move or destroy system gates?

Can you wipe out pirate factions to the point they never come back?

You can alter certain per defined area's of the game but not every thing in the game.  That is not a Sandbox.  It has sandbox Elements and is the closet thing to a true Sandbox in the MMO market but that does not make it a sandbox.

Just because you have your own sandbox, doesn't mean someone can't find it and step on whatever you made. IMO what you want is restricting the player that wants to step on your standbox, so you can get your way and he can't get his..which seems to refute your arugment of someone playing the way they want to.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by bossalinie

His lack of attention to detail about the gun of the F22 doesn't mean that his point is wrong.

You are basically stating that if that game has some form of aggressive interaction between players which causes one or the other to deviate from his norm is not a sandbox?

I don't know what sandbox you've played in, but I never had a ignore button that prevent other cats that were bigger and badder than I from stomping my castle to the ground.

 

Sure you did, nobody forced you to build the castle at the beach, you could have just built it in your back yard in your own sandbox and then nobody would have stomped it into the ground.

EvE does not give you that option, you cannot go play in your own little corner and ignore all others. 

I am saying any game that does not a player to play the game his or her way when he or she wants to is not a true sandbox.

Can we agree their are sandbox Elements in EvE but it is not a full sandbox.

Can you kill stations in high sec?

Can you equip any ship with any mod?

Can you move or destroy system gates?

Can you wipe out pirate factions to the point they never come back?

You can alter certain per defined area's of the game but not every thing in the game.  That is not a Sandbox.  It has sandbox Elements and is the closet thing to a true Sandbox in the MMO market but that does not make it a sandbox.

Ah... the old "in order to bake a cake from scratch, you must first create the universe' argument. 

By your logic, no MMO can ever be a true anything because there is always some narrower condition that you will judge it against in order to prove your point. 

You win!

One of the problems is that EVE is old. The big alliances have locked down areas and have total control over technetium and are esentially holding the rest of EVE hostage. This makes them have unlimited acess to T2 weaponry and ships making them next to imposssible to dislodge unless you are one of the other big and old alliances.

A new corp has no choice but being their renters and pay for protection.

When the world was young it was different but now it's a bit like RL, the deck is stacked in favour of those who already have. This isn't unique to EVE but given the relatively large freedoom EVE allows it has a greater impact than in most other games.

Originally posted by Lowcaian

One of the problems is that EVE is old. The big alliances have locked down areas and have total control over technetium and are esentially holding the rest of EVE hostage. This makes them have unlimited acess to T2 weaponry and ships making them next to imposssible to dislodge unless you are one of the other big and old alliances.

A new corp has no choice but being their renters and pay for protection.

When the world was young it was different but now it's a bit like RL, the deck is stacked in favour of those who already have. This isn't unique to EVE but given the relatively large freedoom EVE allows it has a greater impact than in most other games.

Yes, that statement has been made many times in the history of EVE. Many "great empires" have come and gone. A few years ago, BoB ruled supreme and nobody could imagine that rule being broken. Now, they are just a footnote in EVE history.

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by Calfis

Originally posted by BigCountry

There is no end game in eve. I never said there was.

It's 100% sandbox once you get in 0.0 because it's entirely controlled and fought/defended over by play groups (corps/alliances). Your not themeparking anymore at that point, your building your own content/story lines according to how to respond/react to other players in the same area. To argue that's not sandbox would be pretty stupid.

Its probably ignorance rather than stupidity, if they haven't spent a large amount of time in the player driven part of the game then they probably do think there's no sandbox.

To say EvE is a sandbox is pretty stupid.  Even in 0.0 you have restrictions on what you can put on what ship, what faction you have to do certian missions.  There are restrictions which means its not a true sandbox.

 

So you are saying that for Eve to be the sandbox game everyone says it is that there needs to be only one ship and then each player can customize it however they want?  Right, no frigates, no destroyers, no battleships, no miners...etc just one ship with an open canvas. While that would be truly stupid, I get your point.   

It's a sandbox because you don't have to mine or better yet you don't have to mine on their terms. It's not a single player game so you have to interact with others players in one way or another whether you choose or they choose how that way happens is up in the air. 

I've played and I've mined and I've mined while this event was going on and never lost a ship. I chose where to build my castle to avoid interacting with players that wanted to blow me up as their way of interacting with me.  Now does that mean that I was safe? never, but I also wasn't AFK mining or watching porn while I mined which is what a lot of the people crying do.   It was never even hard to keep my self safe while mining.   

Other have said that no game will truly ever by a complete sandbox type of game and that's true, but Eve is as close to it as possible.  Some one in this thread mentioned that why isn't it possible for others to gang up and tank Goons out, it is if there were enough people willing to do it or even a small group of people with the right plan. 

I hate seeing others trying to steer new players away from Eve when it's such a great game. I can honestly say that my enjoyment as a player both solo and in a corp was never directly effected by the Goons. Now was it indirectly because the price of a ship might have been higher during and after these type of events? Maybe, but I was also mining during them also which allowed me to make more ISK while the prices were high. 

Originally posted by TdogSkal

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by TdogSkal

 

No if pvpers are trying to control how others play the game thats not what a sandbox is, a Sandbox is a game that allows any player to play how they want when they want. 

Entropia Universe is a Sandbox.   EvE is not but has Sandbox Elements and a ton of them but it is not a sandbox.

 

Yes you can mount a gatting gun on a F22 Raptor if you wanted too and in fact the do have them. M61A2 20-mm Cannon is the standard gun installed on the F22 raptor. The M61A2 is a Gatling-style rotary cannon.

If there are restrictions put in place to limit what players can do, it cannot be a Sandbox game.

So in Entropia Universe, I can't try to play the game where I try to force others to do something? That's how I want to play as.

So by your logic, Entropia Universe isn't a sandbox since the game isn't allowing me to play the game as I want.

You can play Entropia Universe anyway you want including trying to force others to do something, the thing your are not understanding or choosing to ignore is that the other players can ignore you and keep playing the way they want too.  

In EvE you can stop others from playing the game the way they want too.

Understand the difference?

Also, no come back on the F22 thing?

We do understand, in Entropia the individual supercedes the virtual world. To you for some reason, this is a sandbox, being  in an invincible individual bubble where no other existing being can interfere with you is a sandbox...

In EVE we follow the reverse philosophy, the virtual world is the greater, you are merely an individual existing within said world, exposed the same dangers, opportunities, and challenges as any other individual. You are not special, neither is anyone else. You can affect others or be affected by others as much as they can to you with the various methods/tools available to all individuals.

You see EVE tries to simulate a world, not an individual experience, that is the stark difference. You can have experiences in this world but everything is interconnected, there is no bubble within the greater bubble of the virtual world.

Since the IRL examples are popular, I will make one. If the real world was like EVE, then you can walk down the street and get mugged because someone wanted to mug you. If the real world was like Entropia, you could walk down the street and choose not to participate in the mugging part of existence because it does not suit your sensibilities. This is of course bullshit in a real sandbox world you cannot choose to not participate in the world.