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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Main reason why SWTOR flopped?

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396 posts found


Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1130

6/02/12 8:23:18 PM#21

There is no main reason. There are many variables

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)


Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3675

6/02/12 8:30:18 PM#22

Heres a few guesses:

SWTOR is too story out of story and you run out of game

SWTOR is too much of a single player experience and not a MMO

SWTOR should have been b2p not p2p...the game was not meant for a monthly but they thought they could make more money that way

IT was too easy to get to cap and not much of an end game


       I still dont really consider it a flop....They made money so its a success in that regards....Players may see it as a failure though as I am sure many were hoping for a long term game, not something to entertain them for a month or two.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

6/02/12 8:33:26 PM#23

By definition it wasn't a MMO.

  User Deleted
6/02/12 8:34:59 PM#24

I just didn't feel like I was playing a Star Wars character.

There were small things like jumping.  My character could barely make a jump over a small rock or some sandbags. This small thing made me question the controls along with a few other skill related details.

There are far too many stuns and rooting abilities for this type of combat.

For me the most disappointing aspect is meaningless pvp. I know that many people do not care much for pvp and I respect that, however, I do want to have it in my games and Star Wars should have conflict between the Republic and the Empire.

Most of the war zones set up battles against your own faction which causes conflict between your allies instead of your enemies. This is not a great result. The open world pvp (if any can be found) has no purpose or reward worth fighting over. The maps are designed so that each side avoids one another while out questing, crossing paths is a rare occurance and it is seemingly discouraged.

Access to enemy bases are almost impossible due to the overpowered cannons that can track you stealthed or not. Why create a game with the ability to have open world pvp but make it so that you can't even invade an enemy base even at max level with high end gear?

Why are there no contested areas on the planets?

I was hoping for some epic battles between the sides fighting for planets or resources or even control of trade and commerce. Instead we got a steady diet of Hutt ball, and whatever the hell Ilum was supposed to be. The rest of the war zones are just farms with limited purpose.

I had some fun days in Ilum when we could get some good 30 on 30 battles going but certainly not enough to sustain my interrest. I refused to trade kills.

I grew up with Star Wars. I wanted the mmo to drop me into the conflict between the Republic and the Imperials with war, battles, planetary control, and large scale light saber and blasters flying all over.

Bounty could they reduce these classes to such a pointless level? After the story line there is no more need for them outside of the forced combat mechanics for raids and some minor pvp. If these were my main classes, I would want to collect my bounty or smuggle stuff. These people should have a purpose in the game relating to their class.

There should be a game within the game. Classes should have a job to do to keep things going.....missions, seeking data, Bounties to be collected, objects and items to be smuggled.

My Assasin got a seat on the council and now just wanders around without true purpose or reason until someday when they patch in more story. He is important......I guess. Someday he will have to make desicisions and stuff but for now just farm war zones against everyone else until we need you.

This game at the end was just a pile of WTF.




Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

6/02/12 8:43:16 PM#25
Originally posted by TROLL_HARD

Dead worlds that can't be really explored.




For me this was it.  I noticed it right away in Beta and within the first 20 min and actually said out loud, " Uh oh.  Not good.  Not good at all...." .   Everything had a very static feel to it.  There were just roads everywhere.  Set paths with hardly any room on either side.  I never saw much of the game beyond that.  Heard Tatooine was a bit more open but regardless from what I saw of it, while it didnt suffer from that same problem, it didnt look all that great either. 


Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 3000

6/02/12 8:46:51 PM#26
Originally posted by Theocritus

H       I still dont really consider it a flop....They made money so its a success in that regards....Players may see it as a failure though as I am sure many were hoping for a long term game, not something to entertain them for a month or two.


First, there is no real indication that BW/EA are "in the black" on TOR yet... they might be, they might not... it all depends on the specifics of deals with distributors, both physical and digital AND the split on sub revenue with LA.

In particular, the revenue going back to EA from box sales is hard to assess, because for physical copies sold in any retail outlet or Amazon, EA is getting only 30%-40% that. And since the box price was the biggest chunk for them so far, that could be a lot. They do not get 100% of the box on digital sales either (although for Origin copies, that is somewhat a technicality).


All that aside, and frankly more important, is that TOR in no way lived up to expectations, either for units sold or retention. The various interests that funded this game did so with the expectations of a MUCH bigger return than they got. They collectively tied up $200 mil for 5+ years, money that could have been used from many other projects, and they were expecting TOR to be a jackpot and have numbers that were comparable to WoW, that clearly did not and will not happen.

Otherwise, they would have never put so much cash, for so long, for the marginal, if profitable returns TOR has generated.


Bottom line is that TOR has failed to meet the expectations the investors in TOR had, and the very high "opportunity costs" that the making of TOR entailed.

As such, the people who funded this game do not consider TOR anything but a flop, and the chances of seeing another $200 mil MMO in the next decade are basically nil.

TOR is that much of a lesson to the industry.



Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/03
Posts: 948

6/02/12 8:48:30 PM#27

Main reason? It's simply not a MMORPG. It's a single player game that is dragged out in hopes of keeping you playing so you continue to pay the subscription fee. That's really the short of for me.

As a result many things that should have been in that are standard for MMOs wasn't included. This cause people to leave after the first month because they didn't pay for a single player game. Some also simply didn't like how it played but I think it all leads back to it being a single player game and not a good one. Players leaving caused problems for the population because there were so many servers and the population was so spread out. Bioware's refusal to merge servers just upset people more so they continued to leave rather then have to start over on a new server. That just keeps continuing. All the while the problems of the game no being a mmo are still having a role.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 567

6/02/12 8:57:01 PM#28

SWTOR has no "soul"...nor a looking for dungeon tool.  Not having a automatic LFG tool is so 1999.  It is just unbelieveable that I had to go "LFG" in general chat.  These are but 2 of SWTORs major failings however.  The PvP was just pathetic and unbalanced as well.  There are just too many reasons why this failed.

SWTOR is the biggest failure in gaming history.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/09
Posts: 76

6/02/12 9:23:52 PM#29
Originally posted by Tnice
SWTOR is the biggest failure in gaming history.

:D harsh but probably truth


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/14/07
Posts: 296

6/02/12 9:27:56 PM#30

Since SWTOR is so heavily single payer oriented with bad MMO mechanics, I'd say the subscription model killed it.  If they made it B2P like GW2 is doing, I think there would have been MUUUUUCH less hatred on the game....hell it might have even been praised for giving us Kotor 3 plus some persistance MMO features.....sadly EA went the greedy route once again.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 226

6/02/12 9:31:48 PM#31

i don't think it has "flopped", i think it is "flopping".


The main reasons not in any order that i see the most are:

World pvp is non existent, it is star wars, and a huge chunk of people played to pvp. They lost that whole group almost entireley. You release a game with an open pvp zone in ilum,. Ilum was basically grind for armements  and if it had more than 20 people in teh zone, you'd drop to 1fps. Then was the exploiting, etc etc. They basically closed down their only world pvp. Should never release stuff that is broken.

Performance. It is a known fact the game runs pretty crappy on alot of machines.  people with top end machines getting terrible fps. Again, this was known in closed beta on quite a few quad core processors and some other systems. You don't release a game that doesn't perform well on machines that meet the required specs.

Space Combat. We know it's a "ground game" but it is star wars. The space combat was an insult to people, again in beta, this was bashed to death. Mostly just an opinion here, but i think the could have done anything better than what is in place. feels like im playing an n64 emulator game.

Bugged ops/flashpoints. You don't release a game if your content is broken. It's still broken. 

UI , it was requested time and again over and over. The devs chose not to release a customized ui and it's still not in great shape. Not listening again in beta, the backlash was terrible.

Auction house - still garbage, was garbage in beta. Requested a decent gtn in the beta forums over and over by many people to no avail.

Crafting - slicing exploit was known before the game was released, hence why almost every closed beta tester just sliced their first month away. Was known prior to release, and released anyways.

Crafting - personal opinions here, but it's lacking everything. It's worse than wow crafting. It basically just turned into a "biochem" galaxy. 

armor effect, helms, etc. 9 gazillion equipment display bugs. Known about in beta. Game released anyways. My male marauder has a ghetto booty.

I've stood firm in my personal opinion that the game is flopping becasue they focused all these years on the level 1-50 experience and bombed on the post 50 experience. They made a game they wanted us to play, not a game we want to play. THis is evident by the massive subscription drops.  I myself, wanted to play star wars solely for the "wars". The pvp died, and i left. The last time i logged in to my server there were 3 people in fleet and all of them had been in warzone que for over an hour and a half.

The game has very bad direction. The development team is not listening to the subscriber base. I enjoy a good themepark but this game really is a single player game. The end game content just isn't worth it.


Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 209

6/02/12 9:34:04 PM#32
Originally posted by Dromedarr
Originally posted by Tnice
SWTOR is the biggest failure in gaming history.

:D harsh but probably truth

Not quite yet.  Look up E.T. for the Atari 2600.  Game flopped so bad that the majority of the cartridges made wound up in a Nevada landfill. 


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/12
Posts: 154

6/02/12 9:36:19 PM#33
Originally posted by Tnice

SWTOR has no "soul"...nor a looking for dungeon tool.  Not having a automatic LFG tool is so 1999.  It is just unbelieveable that I had to go "LFG" in general chat.  These are but 2 of SWTORs major failings however.  The PvP was just pathetic and unbalanced as well.  There are just too many reasons why this failed.

SWTOR is the biggest failure in gaming history. Yes is the biggest failure of the game history, the hate around swtor is just epic, but the truth is, lot of people really love and enjoy the game but the haters just can understand that, so in some point they really want to believe with all their heart that swtor is a fail but deep in their souls they know how wrong they are, but cant admit that.  

Is swtor a fail?, actually is the most successful P2P MMO post wow. That is a fact, live with it. 

Is swtor doomed to fail, No, with at least 3 more content updates and an expansion, it will be one of the biggest MMO in the market, people will quit and come back like they do in everysingle MMO of the last 10 years. 

At the end is all about this ¨Haters gonna hate¨. 



Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/06
Posts: 936

6/02/12 9:47:27 PM#34

It's a flop because "jumping and turning" doesn't feel right?!! Did I read that right?



Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1694

6/02/12 9:59:24 PM#35

Used wrong engine. The hero engine is for noobs, real mmos create their own engine. The lack of optimization of the engine and the constraint the engines has simply limited what they could build.

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 475

6/02/12 10:03:18 PM#36

Is "that feeling" kinda like the game is not one with the force? The force being lacking immersion.

  User Deleted
6/02/12 10:12:36 PM#37

Could not vote.


The game is still the 2nd largest in the mmo space.

  User Deleted
6/02/12 10:18:13 PM#38
Originally posted by I_Return

Used wrong engine. The hero engine is for noobs, real mmos create their own engine. The lack of optimization of the engine and the constraint the engines has simply limited what they could build.

This is interesting... how many MMOs do we know of use their own engine?

I would bet that most do not.


Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 475

6/02/12 10:18:34 PM#39
Originally posted by BrooksTech

Could not vote.


The game is still the 2nd largest in the mmo space.

I dunno. It may be the 1st biggest. Isn't over a 20gig download?

Or was you talking something else cause anything else is highly debatable ATM.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/23/05
Posts: 10

6/02/12 10:19:44 PM#40

Wouldnt call it a flop but it was far from a success.


The main reason for me was it was two sided and horrible world pvp. A good world pvp and I can play a game for a couple years. This just wasnt it.

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