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News & Features Discussion  » General: Closing Time

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61 posts found
  Cymdai

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/05
Posts: 1085

It's my job to be objective, it's my right to have an opinion.

6/01/12 6:03:05 PM#21

This topic made me think of Brad McQuaid immediately.

Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2771

6/01/12 6:16:12 PM#22

I definitely feel bad for those laid off.  Especially the ones getting contacted by the banks when 38 studios lied about selling their houses for them when they relocated.

 

The company was totally mismanaged.  They probably paid and arm and a leg for Salvatore and McFarland.  Why they bought another game studio is beyond me.  Why R.I. loaned them so much money is the big question.

  Scalebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 2240

6/01/12 6:18:35 PM#23

Haha the title made me think of this right away...

http://youtu.be/xGytDsqkQY8

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas

  Garkan

Gurista

Joined: 11/03/07
Posts: 544

Thug, Thief, Killer, Pirate

6/01/12 6:39:39 PM#24

I am curious about the being escorted off the premises thing, is that something unique to the software industry or is it standard practice for other employers?

Personally I have been made redundant only once. I have little experiance in that regard but in my case I was not escorted out, noone else was either. I can see why it might be necessary if someone was sacked for bad conduct but not for redundancy.

Currently playing:

EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)

Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.

(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.

  Zorgo

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2212

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

6/01/12 8:16:26 PM#25
Originally posted by Garkan

I am curious about the being escorted off the premises thing, is that something unique to the software industry or is it standard practice for other employers?

Personally I have been made redundant only once. I have little experiance in that regard but in my case I was not escorted out, noone else was either. I can see why it might be necessary if someone was sacked for bad conduct but not for redundancy.

I would imagine if you had access to sensative materials from your game, they may want to make sure it doesn't leave the building. Imagine having inside information on blizzard's 'titan' on your resume for your next job as a hypothetical.

  chaintm

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 977

"Shutting down threads sense 2004"

6/01/12 8:21:23 PM#26

The only fool is the fool that believes in any company in the end. Contract work is the only work in this industry, for you are your own boss, you loose that contract due to company failure, you still get your payout and in the end your lined up for more work. If your skills are not enabling you to get constant contract work, time to re-skill or change professions. The I.T. Industry is a very rough industry and the side of entertainment is even worse.

Most of anyone that I know worth a grain of salt in this industry is contract. A few mangment in some companies are excellent players, I have yet thou to run into any coder, designer and more that are full time steady employees with one company more then two years.

I am sure there are some, but out of all, contract is the way to do it. Just my 2cents, sorry but this posting to me seems more of a rant from a guy who is sick of getting laid off. Personally I would just better my skills or find a new line of work.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

6/01/12 8:29:36 PM#27

I have to disagree a liiiiiitle bit on the "they couldn't see it coming" when it comes to 38. The word "bankruptcy" was floating around our ears at least a month prior. If we were hearing it, THEY had to be. Let's not forget they went a few months without pay too.

 

I won't say "That's their fault for not getting a new job when the chips were getting low" because frankly it's not that easy, especially in an industry so specialized. Those guys had to see it coming, and mostly sat there watching the freight train, not able to do anything but work harder and hope they could escape.

  ScorpionOne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/15/06
Posts: 179

6/01/12 8:49:33 PM#28

I feel for anyone who gets laid off.  I was there.  When I was laid off, like one other in the comments, at least HR let me go to my car on my own and without security.  Didn't make me feel any better.  But the same thoughts went through my head: "What could I have done more?", "Could I have done something different?", etc etc.  Two years unemployed until a saving grace from former experience picked me back up.  Thank god for secondary experience.  And when someone tells you don't burn your bridges, please believe me when I reiterate that.  DO NOT BURN YOUR BRIDGES!  That bridge might just be your only saving grace from losing everything you worked your ass off for.

 


  Veldara

Novice Member

Joined: 12/27/11
Posts: 29

6/01/12 10:11:24 PM#29

All I'm gonna say is I hope each and everyone of those people that lost their jobs gets back on their feet soon.  I'll say this though, the videogame industry is a brutal one and anyone that gets in has my respect, especially those that aren't in the big name positions.

  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

6/01/12 11:29:14 PM#30

Just tell them those employees to "use skill" just like you did after the "see hidden" patch in DAOC Sonya!  

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1098

6/02/12 1:58:16 AM#31

Edit:  Outside of the upper level people who are controlling things, i definitely feel for the people losing their jobs.  Especially in this time and day.  The low level and mid level guys don't deserve this, that being said, i stand by the rest of my post.

 

This has not been a bad week, this has been a FANTASTIC week.  Why?  Do i like to see game companies fail? No, not normally.  But when they posess the level of hubris of companies like Bioware.  OMG it makes my manly bits tingle when i hear things like what happened this week.

I've been waiting for literally years for gamers to finally pull their heads out of their proverbial asses and pull the wool from their eyes.  These game companies have been foisting the same, rehashed, slap a pair of tits and and new coat of paint on it and sell it as new, "games", for the last half a decade, and the most insulting part is the gamers have been lapping it up like its the nectar of the gods because of "brand loyalty".

Bioware circa 2012 is *not* Bioware circa 2000.  Same goes for Blizzard.  Blizzard now, is not = Blizzard North of ye olden days.

You see, back then it went like this:  Make a game with artistic integrity according to our vision of coolness and awesome sauce first, then secondarily hope it sells well and makes good money.

Now, you have games being made the same way as pop music.  Freeze dried, follow a formula, make it shiny and have big titties and assume it will sell well.  Who the fuck cares about artistic integrity, whats that?  Its all about monetization.

So yes, i'm fucking ecstatic that Bioware is getting a fat turd shit down their throat.  They deserve every inch of it.

 

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  erictlewis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

6/02/12 4:19:21 AM#32
Originally posted by Garkan

I am curious about the being escorted off the premises thing, is that something unique to the software industry or is it standard practice for other employers?

Personally I have been made redundant only once. I have little experiance in that regard but in my case I was not escorted out, noone else was either. I can see why it might be necessary if someone was sacked for bad conduct but not for redundancy.

This is common place in all IT jobs.  You have access to data,programs, and possibly vpn access from home.  Every time I ever turned in a notice or, the few times I got downsized I have always been escorted by security to my desk gathered my things, end promptly escorted out to my vehicle, and followed of the property. They don't want you touching anything.

Happens all the time, especially when you work in the financial industry part of it.

I remember years ago when south southern Bell, who is now bellsouth, called all their it employees to the lunch room.  The had security clean out all their desk, and fired all the it staff.  They were then told if they wanted their jobs back that they had to go through this contracting agency  if they wanted to work for them. Upon exiting out of the lunch are the were each handed their box of goodies and escorted to the parking deck.  This was back back in the early 80's in Birmingham AL.

 

  tkobo

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/06
Posts: 472

Current MMO dev teams = Keystone cops.A pure comedy of errors,sadly its not as intentional.

6/02/12 5:53:03 AM#33

....didnt those people GET their jobs due to poor management ?

 

Lets face it,the industry is brimming with incompetence.Its not just the suits.All this "pity the workers" who CHOOSE to stay in an industry choked with failure,who CHOOSE to work for companies that are at best gambles,etc... is just biased over emotional nonsense.

 

If anything,they should be grateful their bad decisions allowed them income as long as they did.And grateful theres no way to recover the money they sucked up as their part of the mmo industries latest trainwrecks.

 

You dont hang the pirate captain and let his numerous minions prance away free,you hang them all.In this case,the "hanging" is a simple cessation of wasted payments to people who are part of a group who will NOT produce a product they were paid to.

 

The only real unfairness here,is that the captains are not as prompty "hung" as the minions in the mmo industry.BUT then just watch when the very next time one of these "captains" anounces their next trainwreck to be....Watch how many will dance around with glee and proclaim how this time they wont produce another monumental failure.Watch how this very site and its mouthpieces who are so indignant now,will hype the next trainwreck to be, AND the devs making it,to absurd levels.

 

Just watch then how fast all these "captains" past failures are suddenly , at most,ignored....and how the next trainwreck is cheered on as it rolls down the same old tracks.

 

 

 
 
  freston

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/07
Posts: 527

6/02/12 1:37:40 PM#34
Originally posted by tkobo

....didnt those people GET their jobs due to poor management ?

 

Lets face it,the industry is brimming with incompetence.Its not just the suits.All this "pity the workers" who CHOOSE to stay in an industry choked with failure,who CHOOSE to work for companies that are at best gambles,etc... is just biased over emotional nonsense.

 

If anything,they should be grateful their bad decisions allowed them income as long as they did.And grateful theres no way to recover the money they sucked up as their part of the mmo industries latest trainwrecks.

 

You dont hang the pirate captain and let his numerous minions prance away free,you hang them all.In this case,the "hanging" is a simple cessation of wasted payments to people who are part of a group who will NOT produce a product they were paid to.

 

The only real unfairness here,is that the captains are not as prompty "hung" as the minions in the mmo industry.BUT then just watch when the very next time one of these "captains" anounces their next trainwreck to be....Watch how many will dance around with glee and proclaim how this time they wont produce another monumental failure.Watch how this very site and its mouthpieces who are so indignant now,will hype the next trainwreck to be, AND the devs making it,to absurd levels.

 

Just watch then how fast all these "captains" past failures are suddenly , at most,ignored....and how the next trainwreck is cheered on as it rolls down the same old tracks.

 

 

 
 

You see the world in a very simplistic black and white view. Things not only fail out of incompetence. You can be a great leader, have a great idea and a great team and fail all the same. 

  Netspook

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/01/07
Posts: 1440

6/02/12 1:50:17 PM#35
Originally posted by tkobo

Lets face it,the industry is brimming with incompetence.Its not just the suits.All this "pity the workers" who CHOOSE to stay in an industry choked with failure,who CHOOSE to work for companies that are at best gambles,etc... is just biased over emotional nonsense. 

 

I have to agree.

I do feel sorry for anyone who's laid off, but frankly, I feel less sorry for those in this industry. Unless they're completely clueless, they have to know that this is one of the most unstable industries on the entire planet. Yet they decided to walk that road.

I know how it's like to lose a job, I've experienced it myself. But why is it that laid offs from game studios whine so much more than anyone else who lost their jobs?

From the article:

"One of the comments swirling around the collective MMO universe is that the recently axed employees had to be delusional to not realize the end was near. That's completely unfair, and untrue."

May be a correct statement in some cases, but not for those who worked at 38 Studios. Even for me, who sits on the other side of the pond, that one wasn't anywhere near a surprise, so if those employees didn't know the end was near, then they're too dumb to deserve better. Harsh, but true.

  Atlan99

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/08
Posts: 1355

6/02/12 2:49:13 PM#36

"One of the comments swirling around the collective MMO universe is that the recently axed employees had to be delusional to not realize the end was near. That's completely unfair, and untrue. It's true that the more experienced you are, the more likely you are to know that something is wrong. (Many of the most telling red flags are only visible in hindsight, and so you can't recognize them until you've been clubbed by them.) But you may not know what, and you certainly don't know when. I have not been shocked to learn of the demise of any of my employers - but the timing has been at least somewhat unexpected every time."

 

I might or might have been in a Stress Test. After this hypothetical Stress Test it became very apparent that this game was in serious trouble. Especially when they said the game had to be out by the end of the year. 

I think when you are too close to a project it is hard to be objective. This is probably why we can't see the writing on the wall in certain situations. 

  terrant

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/07
Posts: 1685

6/02/12 2:53:17 PM#37
Originally posted by Netspook
Originally posted by tkobo

Lets face it,the industry is brimming with incompetence.Its not just the suits.All this "pity the workers" who CHOOSE to stay in an industry choked with failure,who CHOOSE to work for companies that are at best gambles,etc... is just biased over emotional nonsense. 

 

I have to agree.

I do feel sorry for anyone who's laid off, but frankly, I feel less sorry for those in this industry. Unless they're completely clueless, they have to know that this is one of the most unstable industries on the entire planet. Yet they decided to walk that road.

I know how it's like to lose a job, I've experienced it myself. But why is it that laid offs from game studios whine so much more than anyone else who lost their jobs?

From the article:

"One of the comments swirling around the collective MMO universe is that the recently axed employees had to be delusional to not realize the end was near. That's completely unfair, and untrue."

May be a correct statement in some cases, but not for those who worked at 38 Studios. Even for me, who sits on the other side of the pond, that one wasn't anywhere near a surprise, so if those employees didn't know the end was near, then they're too dumb to deserve better. Harsh, but true.

Keep in mind that there are people that have been doing with for YEARS. That's all they know. You get into the industry because you love games, you have a talent for skills needed to make them, and you want to make a living doing it. Win-win right? Once you're in, you're stuck in a dangerous environment where everyone is banking on their title to be the "next big thing" so they can feed their kids.

 

I'm not saying game staff always make great decisions about their careers, but when making games is all you know, making games is what you do.

  grimfall

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1157

6/02/12 4:09:35 PM#38
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I definitely feel bad for those laid off.  Especially the ones getting contacted by the banks when 38 studios lied about selling their houses for them when they relocated.

 

The company was totally mismanaged.  They probably paid and arm and a leg for Salvatore and McFarland.  Why they bought another game studio is beyond me.  Why R.I. loaned them so much money is the big question.

A little research on the internet will correct your misataken assumptions and answer your questions.

  MMOarQQ

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 659

"Against stupidity the very gods themselves contend in vain."

6/02/12 6:01:16 PM#39

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  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1160

6/02/12 10:39:12 PM#40

I think the main issue is all the devs are making recently is the same boring shit we've played thry tons of times, and nothing actually NEW comes out anymore, of course your going to have issues when all your making is rehashes of the exact same game (EA i am looking at you, same for the fps series). To me gaming has gone down the shitter right to hell, with the only saving grace for it is being the indie devs that actually make stuff that feels new. I mean do we really need liek 20 diffrent call of duty games when everyone of them is pretty much the exact same shit in a slightly diffrent wrapper? Now I know its expensive to make a game, no doubts there, but look at some of the indie titles that were made by small teams of 2-4 people, Why don't these bigger named devs try using smaller dev teams and making a game? its less risk.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

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