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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Blame it on Guild Wars 2/Blizzard's greed.

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  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2508

5/31/12 3:33:21 AM#41
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.


All right... there is a lot of stuff here and I say it plainly from the start that yes, I think you are a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Let's go point by point:

1) Guild Wars 2 is not even the same genre of game as Diablo. If you would have said Tera, with its actiony oriented system... maybe... but GW2 combat is much more Wow-like than Diablo-like. Also unless I missed something, GW2 is much more a MMO than a loot-oriented Hack & Slash Action RPG with not much of a story behind it (was true in Diablo 1.. was true in Diablo 2, is true in Diablo 3, the story is nice but definitely not needed here).

Torchlight 2 is much more similar to Diablo so if you would have said they released D3 in May to go against T2... well then maybe there is merit to that. What I think is none of the above though. Blizzard knew they would get gazzilion of sales no matter WHEN they released Diablo 3.

2) Diablo 3 is NOT partially done. Seemed quite complete to me. It's missing PvP you say? Well so did WoW at release! Or better... it had PvP but absolutely no context for it. Battlegrounds, honor points, rewards... all came later. So what was your point again? Blizzard does not care much for PvP? well I knew that in 2004! The PvE part is absolutely complete and Inferno had been touted for months to be really really really hard! It is supposed to be one step over Diablo 2... so it MUST be really hard!

3)"This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. "  A Stretch you call it? Have you any idea what a coder does? Hint: it has nothing to do with graphics.

Also Diablo 3 screenies have been around for years! Their style of graphics is not something they just suddenly changed in the last couple months.

If you want an Hint on what a rushed out game looks like, look no further than Age of Conan. They clearly had the 1-20 content ready and nothing else. Diablo 3 has been in development for 7 YEARS, a couple months up or down won't do much of a difference, right? And surely not enough to change graphic style or "rush up" the game. You do not finish what took 7 years in a month or two!

4) You NEVER owned any game! Legally at least, you always had just a LICENSE. That can be revoked at any time for about any reason from the game company. No one almost ever did (but that is why you can get banned) and it was hardly enforceable, but it has always been there for Software sales since the 1980s.

5) Blizzard has never dealt in DLCs. Nothing said so far makes me believe they will start with Diablo. There will be FREE patches to add content (prolly not much), to add PvP and then we will have 2 expansions to make bigger changes and additions to the game, exactly what happened for Diablo 2. Now maybe they will offer DLCs in the future, but you might have noticed there were no "on-disk DLCs" nor "day-1 DLCs", so if you want to blow the DLC horn, you might have the wrong target. Hint: EA/Bioware is on that other forum, Capcom is thataway as well.

6) What petition you are talking about?

Finally: I'm sorry you think the game is half finished. I don't. Don't buy it if you think it is half finished, wait they implement PvP (as it seems that is all you care about... so why Diablo 3??? never been a pvp centric game, not even diablo 2 was), check how they implement PvP, prolly get disapointed by it... and walk away!

The online-only will not go away. The Auction House does not affect me in the least, so I do not comment on it , never used and prolly will never use.

 

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

- My New World of Darkness Tabletop RPG Blog:
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  SlickShoes

Novice Member

Joined: 3/01/06
Posts: 1040

5/31/12 3:39:52 AM#42
Originally posted by injenu

 

 This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

This above pretty much proves you have no idea what you are talking about at all.

  MikkelB

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/06
Posts: 239

5/31/12 3:58:51 AM#43
Originally posted by Volkmar
Originally posted by injenu
 

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 


All right... there is a lot of stuff here and I say it plainly from the start that yes, I think you are a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Let's go point by point:

1) Guild Wars 2 is not even the same genre of game as Diablo. If you would have said Tera, with its actiony oriented system... maybe... but GW2 combat is much more Wow-like than Diablo-like. Also unless I missed something, GW2 is much more a MMO than a loot-oriented Hack & Slash Action RPG with not much of a story behind it (was true in Diablo 1.. was true in Diablo 2, is true in Diablo 3, the story is nice but definitely not needed here).

Torchlight 2 is much more similar to Diablo so if you would have said they released D3 in May to go against T2... well then maybe there is merit to that. What I think is none of the above though. Blizzard knew they would get gazzilion of sales no matter WHEN they released Diablo 3.

2) Diablo 3 is NOT partially done. Seemed quite complete to me. It's missing PvP you say? Well so did WoW at release! Or better... it had PvP but absolutely no context for it. Battlegrounds, honor points, rewards... all came later. So what was your point again? Blizzard does not care much for PvP? well I knew that in 2004! The PvE part is absolutely complete and Inferno had been touted for months to be really really really hard! It is supposed to be one step over Diablo 2... so it MUST be really hard!

3)"This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. "  A Stretch you call it? Have you any idea what a coder does? Hint: it has nothing to do with graphics.

Also Diablo 3 screenies have been around for years! Their style of graphics is not something they just suddenly changed in the last couple months.

If you want an Hint on what a rushed out game looks like, look no further than Age of Conan. They clearly had the 1-20 content ready and nothing else. Diablo 3 has been in development for 7 YEARS, a couple months up or down won't do much of a difference, right? And surely not enough to change graphic style or "rush up" the game. You do not finish what took 7 years in a month or two!

4) You NEVER owned any game! Legally at least, you always had just a LICENSE. That can be revoked at any time for about any reason from the game company. No one almost ever did (but that is why you can get banned) and it was hardly enforceable, but it has always been there for Software sales since the 1980s.

5) Blizzard has never dealt in DLCs. Nothing said so far makes me believe they will start with Diablo. There will be FREE patches to add content (prolly not much), to add PvP and then we will have 2 expansions to make bigger changes and additions to the game, exactly what happened for Diablo 2. Now maybe they will offer DLCs in the future, but you might have noticed there were no "on-disk DLCs" nor "day-1 DLCs", so if you want to blow the DLC horn, you might have the wrong target. Hint: EA/Bioware is on that other forum, Capcom is thataway as well.

6) What petition you are talking about?

Finally: I'm sorry you think the game is half finished. I don't. Don't buy it if you think it is half finished, wait they implement PvP (as it seems that is all you care about... so why Diablo 3??? never been a pvp centric game, not even diablo 2 was), check how they implement PvP, prolly get disapointed by it... and walk away!

The online-only will not go away. The Auction House does not affect me in the least, so I do not comment on it , never used and prolly will never use.

First of all, nice post from Volkmar, saves me the time adressing all those points

To the OP, I can't remember an instance in which Blizzard released DLC. Unless you mean the WoW Mini Pets, though every WoW player downloaded those for free. If you want to use them however, you need to pay. Then there's that estimate of 150 - 200 dollars worth of DLC. That's a ton! I can't think of any game having DLC that totals to that. Even Mass Effect 2 doesn't come close and that game got a ton of DLC.

Have you taken a good look at the game? The PvE in Diablo 3 (the 'core'-part of the whole franchise) is finished and polished. The AH works perfectly. Being online isn't a problem for me anymore, despite the few bumpy days in the first week. If you still have problems, perhaps it's on your end. Blizzard seems to handle the balancing bit pretty good, wizard, monk and demon hunter all got quickly tweaked when it became clear that they went through Inferno too fast/easy. The only need to add in PvP and enable the RMAH and the game is totally finished. For me it's already finished, as I don't care about either the PvP or the RMAH (though it would be fun to expirement with how much money you can earn with it).

In another post you say that people played Diablo 2 for the PvP. Realy? It's was the most lackluster, tacked on part in Diablo 2. I can understand that people enjoyed it, but to say that the reason people played Diablo 2 so long for the PvP is just silly.

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

5/31/12 4:02:49 AM#44
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.

Stop smoking weed dude.

  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2625

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

5/31/12 4:04:17 AM#45
Originally posted by Requiamer
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.

Stop smoking weed dude.

Thanks coffee all over my keyboard bro!!!

  injenu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 144

 
OP  5/31/12 8:23:18 PM#46
Originally posted by Volkmar
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.


All right... there is a lot of stuff here and I say it plainly from the start that yes, I think you are a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Let's go point by point:

1) Guild Wars 2 is not even the same genre of game as Diablo. If you would have said Tera, with its actiony oriented system... maybe... but GW2 combat is much more Wow-like than Diablo-like. Also unless I missed something, GW2 is much more a MMO than a loot-oriented Hack & Slash Action RPG with not much of a story behind it (was true in Diablo 1.. was true in Diablo 2, is true in Diablo 3, the story is nice but definitely not needed here).

Torchlight 2 is much more similar to Diablo so if you would have said they released D3 in May to go against T2... well then maybe there is merit to that. What I think is none of the above though. Blizzard knew they would get gazzilion of sales no matter WHEN they released Diablo 3.

2) Diablo 3 is NOT partially done. Seemed quite complete to me. It's missing PvP you say? Well so did WoW at release! Or better... it had PvP but absolutely no context for it. Battlegrounds, honor points, rewards... all came later. So what was your point again? Blizzard does not care much for PvP? well I knew that in 2004! The PvE part is absolutely complete and Inferno had been touted for months to be really really really hard! It is supposed to be one step over Diablo 2... so it MUST be really hard!

3)"This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. "   A Stretch you call it? Have you any idea what a coder does? Hint: it has nothing to do with graphics. 

Also Diablo 3 screenies have been around for years! Their style of graphics is not something they just suddenly changed in the last couple months.

If you want an Hint on what a rushed out game looks like, look no further than Age of Conan. They clearly had the 1-20 content ready and nothing else. Diablo 3 has been in development for 7 YEARS, a couple months up or down won't do much of a difference, right? And surely not enough to change graphic style or "rush up" the game. You do not finish what took 7 years in a month or two!

4) You NEVER owned any game! Legally at least, you always had just a LICENSE. That can be revoked at any time for about any reason from the game company. No one almost ever did (but that is why you can get banned) and it was hardly enforceable, but it has always been there for Software sales since the 1980s.

5) Blizzard has never dealt in DLCs. Nothing said so far makes me believe they will start with Diablo. There will be FREE patches to add content (prolly not much), to add PvP and then we will have 2 expansions to make bigger changes and additions to the game, exactly what happened for Diablo 2. Now maybe they will offer DLCs in the future, but you might have noticed there were no "on-disk DLCs" nor "day-1 DLCs", so if you want to blow the DLC horn, you might have the wrong target. Hint: EA/Bioware is on that other forum, Capcom is thataway as well.

6) What petition you are talking about?

Finally: I'm sorry you think the game is half finished. I don't. Don't buy it if you think it is half finished, wait they implement PvP (as it seems that is all you care about... so why Diablo 3??? never been a pvp centric game, not even diablo 2 was), check how they implement PvP, prolly get disapointed by it... and walk away!

The online-only will not go away. The Auction House does not affect me in the least, so I do not comment on it , never used and prolly will never use.

 

1.  Guild Wars 2 is not even the same Genre as Diablo 3? This is very subjective, as you have two games that are both persistent online worlds without subscriptions based in a fantasy type environment.  It's also ironic how you guys talk about how this game is a single player game, yet it has no story? Diablo 3 is all about its story, and if anything GW2 lacks the story.  If it isn't about the story, why don't you just play "click a button until something a different color pops out" game, because that's what Diablo 3 is without its story.

2. Blizzard doesn't care much about PvP? Do you not realize that Blizzard is the creator of Starcraft 2, which is basically the premiere eSports game in the world, other than league of legends?  This is not a finished game, as it would've balanced out pvp, done a whole lot more with the AH (i've sold more through general chat than ever on the AH), along with the bugs, the poorly thought out hell and inferno modes, and the fact that I rubber band all the time while having a 43 ms latency. 

3. The fact that you think that this game is a viable product after 7 years of development makes me wonder if YOU KNOW WHAT A CODER IS.

4. I'm sorry, maybe I'm a retard according to you, but what exactly is the real difference between a DLC and an expansion? It's additional content that you pay for.  I don't think I have to elaborate this for you.

5. The game has a lot of potential as far as pvp goes, even if it is only in an arena format.  I don't honestly think they would make the actual PVE portion open to pvp, as it's somewhat counter intuitive, but if they came out with various formats for pvp the game could have a very strong following in this regard.

The majority of your arguments and counterpoints to me are pretty subjective, basically using only semantics and your own very limited opinion to create any sort of legitimate reason why I would even attempt to see things in your view.  It's called being a fanboi, and you sir, certainly fit that description.

 

  injenu

Novice Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 144

 
OP  5/31/12 8:25:05 PM#47
Originally posted by Requiamer
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.

Stop smoking weed dude.

You realize half of the gaming industry would cease to exist if people didn't smoke? And no, I don't but maybe you should... It would probably give you something a little more creative and original to say.

  qombi

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 1187

5/31/12 8:33:02 PM#48
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.

Not all of us, I don't get caught up in the hype. As soon as I found out that LAN play didn't exist and even single player was online for a simple multiplayer game I decided to never buy it. Also top that off with a stupid real life money auction, basically if you buy it for the price they asked you mind as well print sucker on your forehead.

  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

6/01/12 3:57:29 AM#49
Originally posted by injenu

 

This is why that petition is so important.

Sorry, I failed mind reading class.  WHAT petition?

Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  timtrack

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 403

6/01/12 4:55:45 AM#50

I blame 350z gt/Volvo.

  Volkmar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 2508

6/01/12 5:49:02 AM#51
Originally posted by injenu
Originally posted by Volkmar
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.


All right... there is a lot of stuff here and I say it plainly from the start that yes, I think you are a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Let's go point by point:

1) Guild Wars 2 is not even the same genre of game as Diablo. If you would have said Tera, with its actiony oriented system... maybe... but GW2 combat is much more Wow-like than Diablo-like. Also unless I missed something, GW2 is much more a MMO than a loot-oriented Hack & Slash Action RPG with not much of a story behind it (was true in Diablo 1.. was true in Diablo 2, is true in Diablo 3, the story is nice but definitely not needed here).

Torchlight 2 is much more similar to Diablo so if you would have said they released D3 in May to go against T2... well then maybe there is merit to that. What I think is none of the above though. Blizzard knew they would get gazzilion of sales no matter WHEN they released Diablo 3.

2) Diablo 3 is NOT partially done. Seemed quite complete to me. It's missing PvP you say? Well so did WoW at release! Or better... it had PvP but absolutely no context for it. Battlegrounds, honor points, rewards... all came later. So what was your point again? Blizzard does not care much for PvP? well I knew that in 2004! The PvE part is absolutely complete and Inferno had been touted for months to be really really really hard! It is supposed to be one step over Diablo 2... so it MUST be really hard!

3)"This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. "   A Stretch you call it? Have you any idea what a coder does? Hint: it has nothing to do with graphics. 

Also Diablo 3 screenies have been around for years! Their style of graphics is not something they just suddenly changed in the last couple months.

If you want an Hint on what a rushed out game looks like, look no further than Age of Conan. They clearly had the 1-20 content ready and nothing else. Diablo 3 has been in development for 7 YEARS, a couple months up or down won't do much of a difference, right? And surely not enough to change graphic style or "rush up" the game. You do not finish what took 7 years in a month or two!

4) You NEVER owned any game! Legally at least, you always had just a LICENSE. That can be revoked at any time for about any reason from the game company. No one almost ever did (but that is why you can get banned) and it was hardly enforceable, but it has always been there for Software sales since the 1980s.

5) Blizzard has never dealt in DLCs. Nothing said so far makes me believe they will start with Diablo. There will be FREE patches to add content (prolly not much), to add PvP and then we will have 2 expansions to make bigger changes and additions to the game, exactly what happened for Diablo 2. Now maybe they will offer DLCs in the future, but you might have noticed there were no "on-disk DLCs" nor "day-1 DLCs", so if you want to blow the DLC horn, you might have the wrong target. Hint: EA/Bioware is on that other forum, Capcom is thataway as well.

6) What petition you are talking about?

Finally: I'm sorry you think the game is half finished. I don't. Don't buy it if you think it is half finished, wait they implement PvP (as it seems that is all you care about... so why Diablo 3??? never been a pvp centric game, not even diablo 2 was), check how they implement PvP, prolly get disapointed by it... and walk away!

The online-only will not go away. The Auction House does not affect me in the least, so I do not comment on it , never used and prolly will never use.

 

1.  Guild Wars 2 is not even the same Genre as Diablo 3? This is very subjective, as you have two games that are both persistent online worlds without subscriptions based in a fantasy type environment.  It's also ironic how you guys talk about how this game is a single player game, yet it has no story? Diablo 3 is all about its story, and if anything GW2 lacks the story.  If it isn't about the story, why don't you just play "click a button until something a different color pops out" game, because that's what Diablo 3 is without its story.

2. Blizzard doesn't care much about PvP? Do you not realize that Blizzard is the creator of Starcraft 2, which is basically the premiere eSports game in the world, other than league of legends?  This is not a finished game, as it would've balanced out pvp, done a whole lot more with the AH (i've sold more through general chat than ever on the AH), along with the bugs, the poorly thought out hell and inferno modes, and the fact that I rubber band all the time while having a 43 ms latency. 

3. The fact that you think that this game is a viable product after 7 years of development makes me wonder if YOU KNOW WHAT A CODER IS.

4. I'm sorry, maybe I'm a retard according to you, but what exactly is the real difference between a DLC and an expansion? It's additional content that you pay for.  I don't think I have to elaborate this for you.

5. The game has a lot of potential as far as pvp goes, even if it is only in an arena format.  I don't honestly think they would make the actual PVE portion open to pvp, as it's somewhat counter intuitive, but if they came out with various formats for pvp the game could have a very strong following in this regard.

The majority of your arguments and counterpoints to me are pretty subjective, basically using only semantics and your own very limited opinion to create any sort of legitimate reason why I would even attempt to see things in your view.  It's called being a fanboi, and you sir, certainly fit that description.

 


1. Diablo 3 world is not persistent it is created on the fly everytime you log in.The dungeons and mobs are all different. Your character is persistent and also your progression is persistent, but from that to a full world that is online 24/7... yeah, I call it a difference.

Also Call of Duty has persistent characters and progression, so you want to tell me that a Fantasy CoD would be same genre as Guild Wars 2, regardless of one being a FPS and the other being a MMORPG?

Sorry, I disagree. I place GW2 in same genre as WoW, EQ2, etc. an MMORPG. Diablo is an Action RPG. other games of the same genre are Torchlight, Sacred, Path of Exile, Throne of Darkness and many more, but not WoW or EQ. If you think differently, well *shrug*. In the end, the only thing they have in common is: you pay just the box and you need to be online to play. Assassin's Creed 2 also does that, same genre too?

2. Starcraft is Starcraft. Diablo is Diablo. Blizzard already announced they have no intention to transform Diablo in an E-sport like they did for Starcraft.

So allright, I should have said "Blizzard has no much interest in PvP for Diablo". If they would have, Diablo 3 would release with PvP centric systems and not much PvE if at all, like League of Legend for example.

3. I know what a Coder is, you clearly don't. The fact the product is viable after 7 years of development seems quite proven to me. It sold a bucketloads, it got great reviews and above all: It is technically well done! Animations are smooth, response of your character is solid, everything feel smooth and nice (lag permitting)..... No one is bitching about any of that. The whining is about always online connection, real money auction house and skill tree changes from Diablo 2. Even you.... you want a PvP game... and if this would not be technically well done, what kind of crappy pvp game would it be? the fact you are still looking forward to it should answer your own question.

4. First off, I never called you names. Second off, DLC is a new term, it identifies a certain kind of products. Usually smaller than an expansion and cheaper. You know that ,you are just playing here, so stop doing that if you want a serious discussion.

5. Good. Maybe then they will make something you like.

Finally, how my points are different from yours? Did you gain access to the Cosmic Encyclopedia of Universal Truths and did not tell anyone?

Were you points based on facts and evidence? if so I did not see any. I assumed they were your opinion and I answered in kind.

"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"

- My New World of Darkness Tabletop RPG Blog:
http://realmofroleplay.com/?cat=19

  Mexorilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/09/12
Posts: 316

6/01/12 5:50:46 AM#52

they sold 7 million copies.  they could care less if you buy some junk from dlc or stop playing for that matter.

  Lagoz

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/12
Posts: 92

6/01/12 5:56:11 AM#53

Yup both games are "badly designed" because they revolve around the RMT.

Diablo 3 is totally AH dependant in the inferno levels (RMAH).

In GW2 your inventory/character slots/freedom is limited (Cash Shop).

 

It's really unfortunate but the RMT is getting really deep in online games and they are really pushing it in early design choices. Inferno in D3 isn't badly designed, it's just designed for RMAH :/

  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5185

6/01/12 10:39:38 AM#54
Originally posted by Lagoz

Yup both games are "badly designed" because they revolve around the RMT.

Diablo 3 is totally AH dependant in the inferno levels (RMAH).

In GW2 your inventory/character slots/freedom is limited (Cash Shop).

 

It's really unfortunate but the RMT is getting really deep in online games and they are really pushing it in early design choices. Inferno in D3 isn't badly designed, it's just designed for RMAH :/

 I'm pretty sure the people grinding their fingers to the bone in inferno would disagree about the game being dependent on the RMAH since the RMAH isn't open and never has been.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2767

6/01/12 10:43:45 AM#55
Originally posted by Lagoz

Diablo 3 is totally AH dependant in the inferno levels (RMAH).

Considering there are people beating Inferno now and there is no RMAH, I'd say you are wrong.  I'm only in A2 Inferno but see myself farming that once I raise some stats from Gold AH items.  If I get stuck I'll jsut level other characters or take a break and let the Gold AH items get cheaper.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2388

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

6/01/12 10:45:32 AM#56
Originally posted by injenu

So this is what I'm thinking....

In January of this year GW2 gives a little hint that they'll be releasing the following year around the same time... Then, in early April ArenaNet starts offerring Open-Beta testing with pre-orders, followed by the April 27th open beta weekend.  Blizzard most definitely got themselves a copy and after playing it come to the realization that GW2 is a lot closer to release than what was previously indicated... So they panicked.. 

They knew that if GW2 were to release before Diablo III, which for all intensive purposes can be considered direct competition, that it  would ultimately hurt D3s initial release sales.  So they go into "worst case scenario" mode, realizing their own game in its current development state is going to be lacking seriously.  Sensing a June-ish release date from GW2, they have no choice but to release a partially done game.. 

So development realizes that they're going to have to figure out a way to deliver the game in a piece by piece method, while also ensuring that the masses wont just tear through their unfinished game.  They decide to scrap trying to figure out pvp balancing, and focus on finishing up the overall PVE content itself.  This might be a stretch, but I bet they brought in some coders from WoW (why the game has similar graphics), and tried to polish/debug what they had for a release. 

As a means to slow down people from utterly ripping through the content, they just make inferno mode impossible for the layman player. They also reduce the drops so as to be able to figure out the best way to implement the RMAH.  The DRM is also a pretty good method of artificially controlling people from getting to the end point (a single player offline mode allows people to choose whether to update their game) ..

Thinking along this path, you can kind of get a better scope as to how Blizzard is maximizing their sales.  The tragedy in all of this is that all of us basically paid full price to rent (DRM means you DO NOT own it) a partially finished game.  The greater insult is that most of us will probably also pay to purchase DLCs piece by piece, until Blizzard decides to actually make right on their committment in providing an adequate version of Diablo 3.  I'm thinking they intend on milking us for about $150-200 for their full, envisioned finished product. 

This is why that petition is so important. The more signatures that the petition gets, the higher likelihood that a class action suit will be filed, and the greater the chances that Blizzard does NOT charge its playerbase for paying for their own failures.  Not to piss in anyone's cornflakes, but if you honestly think that this game is anywhere near complete in its current state, with the DRM, as well as the lack of pvp, proper balancing, and the broken AH, then I'm sorry, but you should really take a seriously better look. 

So what do you guys think? Am I some crazy conspiracy theorist? Or does this make some sense?

injenu.

Tin foil is one hell of a receptor!

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  An4thor

Elite Member

Joined: 4/21/11
Posts: 442

6/01/12 10:51:24 AM#57

 


Originally posted by StriderXed pretty sure that alot of people who do play D3, have no idea what GW2 is.
I wouldn't say so..they are two different games so no wonder that people can enjoy both of them

 

  Wickedjelly

Novice Member

Joined: 4/19/09
Posts: 5064

The Dude abides

6/01/12 10:55:15 AM#58

I'm still not convinced the rmah is really going to work in this game. Not that I'm advocating companies to do it but seems to me it would work better in an mmo that constantly is updating their itemization more than simply when an expansion comes out. Just seems in a game with a static list of items it won't have any long term traction.

Not a fan of it really but if you're going to implement one seems an mmorpg would be a lot better place to implement this feature.

1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

6/01/12 10:59:59 AM#59

lol

I think GW2 will influence MoP's release, possibly. Or MoP's release is influencing GW2, who knows.

  IPolygon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 702

6/01/12 11:00:57 AM#60

I don't think they (Blizzard) took a look at GW2 before or after making changes to D3 one way or the other. They could change one or two things for MoP, but I highly doubt it. If things will be announced for the launch of MoP that could be similar to GW2, it was probably planned ahead like this a long time ago.

Additionally, I don't think Blizzard even considers ArenaNet to be a competitor at all. The first game that could take some of their market share has not yet released and Blizzard has a much bigger following than ArenaNet.

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